Jon the frog Posted November 22, 2018 #51 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Always wanted to die in nature, below a tree, alone and far so my corpse can do some good. Trying to cross the Atlantic in a dingy could be another solution... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 22, 2018 #52 Share Posted November 22, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 5:39 AM, Coil said: It only turns out that everyone wants to live happily and when it is difficult to quickly get out of this world. People do not want to endure the suffering and get rid of their sins on earth or understand it as a test for them. Even my classmate, as it became hard, began to think about suicide and constantly spoils his mood with defeatist thoughts. And our business is not to do what you want (and democracy for me looks exactly like that now) but to do what is reasonable and brings good to others and does not cause a sense of shame or uncertainty. Based on you're views you must of never suffered that level of anguish. It's impossible to imagine the level of suffering one feels that leads to suicidal thoughts and eventually suicide. If there is a god or higher being then I believe it would have the empathy and compassion to understand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 22, 2018 #53 Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Jon the frog said: Always wanted to die in nature, below a tree, alone and far so my corpse can do some good. Trying to cross the Atlantic in a dingy could be another solution... After my death I have asked to be cremated, mixed with potting soil and poured into a deep hole in which a tree is to be planted. I have taken from the earth and to it I will return. To be honest I think this is far better than being buried. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted November 22, 2018 #54 Share Posted November 22, 2018 8 hours ago, Rlyeh said: You're contradicting yourself, by changing the body to gain immortality you have changed the natural process of dying. A person must return what Adam and Eve have lost - their immortality, otherwise life will always be in suffering for a person. Don't you understand that the present body of a man is not a real, true body of a man?! Quote Anyway nature doesn't punish us.As you have shown again you know nothing about biology or disease. You forgot how many archeology counted cataclysms on the earth, how many times the poles changed on the planet, how many times the ice ages came and animals died out on the earth, continents descended and the earth shrunk to form mountains and the dents from huge meteorites are visible with the naked eye on the planet's surface .. When people bother the planet too much with their bad deeds, she dumps them because people hurt her and she tries to free herself from the object of irritation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 22, 2018 #55 Share Posted November 22, 2018 This thread has lost it's point and purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 23, 2018 #56 Share Posted November 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Coil said: A person must return what Adam and Eve have lost - their immortality, otherwise life will always be in suffering for a person. Don't you understand that the present body of a man is not a real, true body of a man?! Human's were never immortal. Here we are again with you choosing fiction over reality. 11 hours ago, Coil said: You forgot how many archeology counted cataclysms on the earth, how many times the poles changed on the planet, how many times the ice ages came and animals died out on the earth, continents descended and the earth shrunk to form mountains and the dents from huge meteorites are visible with the naked eye on the planet's surface .. When people bother the planet too much with their bad deeds, she dumps them because people hurt her and she tries to free herself from the object of irritation. That's geology. People didn't exist during most those events. Why do you continue to make ignorant statements despite admitting it's a "sin"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted November 23, 2018 #57 Share Posted November 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Rlyeh said: Human's were never immortal. Here we are again with you choosing fiction over reality. Why do you continue to make ignorant statements despite admitting it's a "sin"? Sorry, but you can not get into what I write and the topic has moved to another. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 23, 2018 #58 Share Posted November 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, Coil said: Sorry, but you can not get into what I write and the topic has moved to another. Good luck. Because what you write is nonsense. And you were the one who derailed this thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted November 23, 2018 #59 Share Posted November 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Because what you write is nonsense. And you were the one who derailed this thread. I wrote above that the doctor should follow the Hippocratic Oath or he would then not be a doctor but serve death. If someone thinks differently, then this is his personal choice and depending on our choice, the corresponding consequences will come and as a result, as always, they will accuse God and the person will remain a fool and drag his diseases and increase his deviations in DNA.And it’s easiest to blame a person because you don’t need to make a lot of effort of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted November 23, 2018 #60 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Some of these comments remind me so much of some of the indoctrination I got inside my deeply fundamental Pentecostal origins, combined with old European ideas. It is a bit creepy to remember some of that again. Death is part of life and a personal decision how we live it for the most part. I would hope the helpless are not coerced into euthanasia before they are at peace and choose it for themselves, and I know this hope is a real likelihood in some cases. But, I think it needs to be available to people under close medical supervision, and we give it our best shot to make sure it truly is ELECTED, not coerced. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted November 23, 2018 #61 Share Posted November 23, 2018 51 minutes ago, Coil said: I wrote above that the doctor should follow the Hippocratic Oath or he would then not be a doctor but serve death. If someone thinks differently, then this is his personal choice and depending on our choice, the corresponding consequences will come and as a result, as always, they will accuse God and the person will remain a fool and drag his diseases and increase his deviations in DNA.And it’s easiest to blame a person because you don’t need to make a lot of effort of reason. Hang on, you're saying if someone disagrees with you, they will spread diseases and their DNA will degrade? What drives you to spew such complete idiocy!? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted November 23, 2018 #62 Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 7:41 AM, Coil said: Suffering a person gives old debts and if a person is relieved of suffering by euthanasia, he will have to get rid of them in the posthumous worlds and it is harder there than on earth, therefore the earthly is better to get rid of on earth. So, suffering is an indicator that a person has done something wrong in life( in the case of Christ, this is another, voluntary suffering) and euthanasia is an easy way to interrupt life. But you are right that people have different degrees to withstand suffering and many cannot withstand it morally and can be understood in an attempt to get rid of in one fell swoop from suffering in old age. Older people are hard but usually we die in a hospital or at home under the supervision of loved ones. Oh my various gods, you have no clue how judgemental that statement sounds. But then, I have found Christians to be some of the most judgemental folk I've encountered. I take that back, new age pagans can be just as bad. Judge not lest you be judged, I guess y'all don't understand what that really means. To pass judgment on an others related to how much pain they are in is cruel and to me shows a lack of empathy to the pain of others. Kind of like dunking a witch. There is a genetic disease of the bone that effects little babies, they go through extreme pain their entire short life. (I don't remember the name of it) I don't understand how anyone could blame the child and leave them to suffer. Nature isn't perfect, things go wrong, shaming the sufferer is unproductive and cruel. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Waters Posted November 23, 2018 #63 Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Coil said: Sorry, but you can not get into what I write and the topic has moved to another. Good luck. The topic has moved to another because you keep derailing it. Let's get back on topic please. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted November 23, 2018 #64 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) I think through the past few decades, the value of life has been lost. Throughout a few ways, not saying I am against or for any of these, but I am saying this is why. A few: Abortion Violence on the Internet and Movies, and TV Video Games If people valued life more, it would not be so easy to take it away, or give it up. And the few examples I gave, have planted the seed that life is not valuable. I can say this for sure after a life changing event. I do not want to die. I can not say how I would feel if I were the 3rd story though. But, my thoughts are, I would not take my own life. Edited November 23, 2018 by Sakari 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakari Posted November 23, 2018 #65 Share Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 2:50 AM, LightAngel said: I already posted a topic about this! All creatures should die when they want to! Because I think we all know when it's our time...... Uhm....No, we don't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted November 23, 2018 #66 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Euthanasia is not the same topic as why we have disease, whatever your views on why we have disease.. This is about euthanasia. It is an issue I see like I view the abortion question. I have a right to decide for myself and my household our view on it and what we do. I also believe others have that right also and warrant safe options to pursue what they believe is the way they need to go. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted November 23, 2018 #67 Share Posted November 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Still Waters said: The topic has moved to another because you keep derailing it. Let's get back on topic please. Sorry, but it seems to me that we have just approached the cause of suffering because of which this topic exists and the desire of people to quickly get rid of pain by a radical way of interrupting life shows that people do not want to bear the consequences of their actions but want to run away from them. And as a result, we will only exchange views but the essence of suffering will not be found because of which people flee to another world or want to end a body that has helped them throughout their lives. 1 hour ago, Sakari said: A few: Abortion Violence on the Internet and Movies, and TV Video Games Your mind has found the right connection but for some it’s very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 23, 2018 #68 Share Posted November 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Coil said: Sorry, but it seems to me that we have just approached the cause of suffering because of which this topic exists and the desire of people to quickly get rid of pain by a radical way of interrupting life shows that people do not want to bear the consequences of their actions but want to run away from them. And as a result, we will only exchange views but the essence of suffering will not be found because of which people flee to another world or want to end a body that has helped them throughout their lives. This reads like it came from someone who hasn't had any real suffering in their life. The lack of empathy is amazing. To be back on topic if someone who as a last resort made the choice to end their life it is solely up to them. I came close a few months ago. So I've been to the edge. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted November 23, 2018 #69 Share Posted November 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, XenoFish said: This reads like it came from someone who hasn't had any real suffering in their life. The lack of empathy is amazing. To be back on topic if someone who as a last resort made the choice to end their life it is solely up to them. I came close a few months ago. So I've been to the edge. Ye Gods Xeno...I'm so glad you're still with us. Truly. As for @Coil: Your *religious* judgments and ideas are wholly sanctimonious and condescending, can you not see it? Jesus and the Buddha exemplified and promoted mercy and compassion. Without those two ingredients, any institutionalized religion becomes a glittering hammer...a quality which you seem to enjoy. Get thee to a good psychoanalyst, pronto. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted November 23, 2018 #70 Share Posted November 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Wistman said: Ye Gods Xeno...I'm so glad you're still with us. Truly. As for @Coil: Your *religious* judgments and ideas are wholly sanctimonious and condescending, can you not see it? Jesus and the Buddha exemplified and promoted mercy and compassion. Without those two ingredients, any institutionalized religion becomes a glittering hammer...a quality which you seem to enjoy. Get thee to a good psychoanalyst, pronto. People seem to always forget the "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" scripture so easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted November 23, 2018 #71 Share Posted November 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: People seem to always forget the "he who is without sin may cast the first stone" scripture so easily. exactly. To a degree we can relate to the concept of mind bending pain physically. Unless you have ever been there it is harder to empathize with mental anguish or emotional agony. Adding in hell and damnation to the equation is outrageous. Glad you said no, @XenoFish but I know it sucks to have it arise now and then to even need to be wrestled with. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 23, 2018 #72 Share Posted November 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said: Glad you said no, @XenoFish but I know it sucks to have it arise now and then to even need to be wrestled with. I Have good days and very bad one's. Most of the time I'm constantly aware that nothing I do matters, that my life is meaningless, and people don't care. At least that's how it feels. I fight with this demon daily. It's not fun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistman Posted November 23, 2018 #73 Share Posted November 23, 2018 @XenoFish: The dark menace knows no peer. I won't demean your challenge with 'helpful' phrases...I'm sure you've already heard them all. May you win all your frightful battles and hang out with us in between. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Not A Rockstar Posted November 23, 2018 #74 Share Posted November 23, 2018 18 minutes ago, XenoFish said: I Have good days and very bad one's. Most of the time I'm constantly aware that nothing I do matters, that my life is meaningless, and people don't care. At least that's how it feels. I fight with this demon daily. It's not fun. People DO care, X man, just you don't wish to see that right now. Have you ever explored why? What would allowing yourself to see that and accept it mean? and yes, I know that demon myself but haven't dealt with him for a while now and am glad of that :/ Exorcising him can be a very good thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted November 23, 2018 #75 Share Posted November 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Not A Rockstar said: Have you ever explored why? Imagine for a moment you're 5 years old. In kindergarten and you're staying with your grandmother because your parents are having a rough patch. You get told almost daily that you're worthless, that you're born wrong and in sin. That someone died because you are sinful. A child of 5 getting this ground deep into their head. There are side effects. A life time of feeling wrong, that no matter how good, no matter how righteous you try to be, that no amount of kindness would ever save you from eternal punishment, this causes damage. You never see the good you do, you never feel good enough. You can't trust anything. You could save a 1000 lives but that wouldn't be good enough. It eats away at you. Leaving only anger, frustration, hatred, and most powerfully - sadness. It's the sadness of never being good enough that's a festering wound in your psyche. So you either choose to live as if you're going to hell or you try to make things right. The third option is rebellion. You become the blasphemous thing that you've been to you are. Give up on god and heaven, find self empowerment in something. Magick being the great sin against god and practicing it makes you feel powerful. You feel strong, at least, till that illusion vanishes. Then after some long and deep thought you realize it all comes down to one thing, trust. As for this demon, I hope you never have to deal with it rockstar. It's talons dig deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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