Regressive left

[+DieChecker]

13 hours ago, aztek said:

a childbirth cost now from 15 to 30k,  we have about 290k of birth  to ILLEGALS alone, you do the math. all numbers from your link

 

I was just reading that 63% of noncitizens are on Federal Aid. It is no wonder caravans of people are trying to bum rush the border...

Guy on the radio is right that the welfare cost of a single year alone probably would pay for the border wall.

https://www-washingtonexaminer-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&_amp=true&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonexaminer.com%2Fwashington-secrets%2Fcensus-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households

Edited December 12, 2018 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

On 12/10/2018 at 9:34 PM, Tatetopa said:

Why do we always start with the people on the bottom?  Because we feel sorry for them and know it would be unfair and hurtful to cut their pay?  Lets start at the top. RIck Scott.

 

Scott was pressured to resign as chief executive of Columbia/HCA in 1997. During his tenure as chief executive, the company defrauded Medicare, Medicaid and other federal programs. The Department of Justice ultimately fined the company in what was at the time the largest health care fraud settlement in U.S. history.[6][7] Scott was never charged with any crime.[8] Following his departure from Columbia/HCA, Scott became a venture capitalist and pursued other business interests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott

 

Rick Scott is worth about $500 million dollars this year,   He became a venture capitalist with the money from his golden parachute.  That money was defrauded from the government.  His company was fined, he was forced to resign, but he was not charged as you see above.  How does that fit with your sense of personal responsibility?

That is the money that should go into health care cost reduction, not pay cuts for the nurses aids.  Only an optimist would see justice coming out the other end of the health care scam.

I'd agree he should have not got away. Bill Clinton was president at the time. I wonder if they were buddies? Maybe Scott was a campaign contributor? Why was he not charged? 

Regardless, even if all fraud was eliminated, it would only pay for half if what would be needed. Taxes would have to shoot up 10-20% (to start with), or wages would have to drop markedly. Either is likely to cause ruin for many.

[Gromdor]

5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

My daughter cost me 50 dollars. One copay and the rest was free.

Intel dropped that insurer though, and my son ended up costing us a couple thousand out of pocket.

I do know several people who ended up owing tens of thousands because they were completely uninsured. I've always wondered why? Why not get a job at Costco, or Wal-Mart, so you have insurance before you give birth. Some people just seem stupid that way. 

Ah, you misunderstand.  The problem is with what the hospital invoices the insurance company for not the co-pay you pay for.  The guys in the post above are complaining about the billions it costs for immigrants that give birth here at $40,000 a pop.  If we use co-pay logic, it's non issue because the immigrants are using medicaid and don't even have a co-pay.

My point was, I think that hospitals probably deliberately inflate the costs of childbirth to fleece insurance companies, consumers, and medicaid as evidence by the cost of childbirth in other countries ($2000-4000) compared to the US ($40,000).

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

My point was, I think that hospitals probably deliberately inflate the costs of childbirth to fleece insurance companies, consumers, and medicaid as evidence by the cost of childbirth in other countries ($2000-4000) compared to the US ($40,000).

Speaking very generically here I can say for a fact that medical providers charge extremely cut rates to cash payers and extremely inflated rates to insured patients. For one service in particular that I am familiar with we are talking about 20k to the cash payer vs a ballpark 400k to the insurer.  The insurer will come back and try and negotiate the rate lower but still its a great example of how broken our system really is.

 

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

Ah, you misunderstand.  The problem is with what the hospital invoices the insurance company for not the co-pay you pay for.  The guys in the post above are complaining about the billions it costs for immigrants that give birth here at $40,000 a pop.  If we use co-pay logic, it's non issue because the immigrants are using medicaid and don't even have a co-pay.

My point was, I think that hospitals probably deliberately inflate the costs of childbirth to fleece insurance companies, consumers, and medicaid as evidence by the cost of childbirth in other countries ($2000-4000) compared to the US ($40,000).

no need to think, or guess, hospitals openly said they charge so much because of those who do not pay bills, so they have to charge me and you more to cover those births that were never paid for.

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, aztek said:

no need to think, or guess, hospitals openly said they charge so much because of those who do not pay bills, so they have to charge me and you more to cover those births that were never paid for.

I think they go above and beyond that.  Medicaid completely covers uninsured childbirth here in the US.  They get paid for every birth, yet they still charge more when they can.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Doctors since ancient times have taken the Hippocratic Oath.  Leaving patients to die would be the same as firemen leaving houses to burn.  American doctors don't pay in excess of $100,000 in malpractice insurance. But hey since 44,000-98,000 people die each year from preventable medical errors I can see why they need it.

you're right. "Therefore, it wouldn't be meaningful to state an average rate for malpractice insurance across the country, because it would range from $5,000 or less to over $100,000. "  But if firemen weren't getting paid, they wouldn't even show up for work, they'd be looking for another job. Nobody works for nothing, Gromdor. When you have a family to raise, you need a paying job. When a hospital pays a doctor, the hospital has to charge because those administrators, too, need a paying job. Simple as that. I like my solution. Let WELFARE pay the cost of the indigent ones and keep the costs DOWN.

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

But you are right. Health care would be a lot cheaper if we don't treat and let the sick and poor die off.  Could save a bundle by getting rid of Medicare too.  The elderly had their whole lives to save money for insurance and their age makes them more costly healthcare wise then the general population.  That whole personal responsibility thing.  If you truly wanted to go all out on the social darwinism, we could start making the disabled and handicapped pay for their own way or die off as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am for government helping the helpless. But I am dead set against the legislature for passing an UNFUNDED MANDATE. ANd this one spiraled the cost of healthcare to levels that many have to go without. So who are we really helping and who are we hurting?? I like my solution.

[Gromdor]

Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

you're right. "Therefore, it wouldn't be meaningful to state an average rate for malpractice insurance across the country, because it would range from $5,000 or less to over $100,000. "  But if firemen weren't getting paid, they wouldn't even show up for work, they'd be looking for another job. Nobody works for nothing, Gromdor. When you have a family to raise, you need a paying job. When a hospital pays a doctor, the hospital has to charge because those administrators, too, need a paying job. Simple as that. I like my solution. Let WELFARE pay the cost of the indigent ones and keep the costs DOWN.

Don't get me wrong, I am for government helping the helpless. But I am dead set against the legislature for passing an UNFUNDED MANDATE. ANd this one spiraled the cost of healthcare to levels that many have to go without. So who are we really helping and who are we hurting?? I like my solution.

We have medical welfare.  It's called Medicaid and it pays for all the births we are talking about.

[aztek]

Just now, Gromdor said:

I think they go above and beyond that.  Medicaid completely covers uninsured childbirth here in the US.  They get paid for every birth, yet they still charge more when they can.

except for birth of 290000 of illegals.

[Gromdor]

Just now, aztek said:

except for birth of 290000 of illegals.

Well, there is no such thing.  The 290,000 Americans born from illegals get paid through Medicaid.  Even the articles quoting that $5 billion mention that: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/shock-report-us-paying-more-for-illegal-immigrant-births-than-trumps-wall

The $5 billion is the bill the hospitals are charging Medicaid.

[Robotic Jew]

19 hours ago, Gromdor said:

In the US or England?

US of course.

[aztek]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Well, there is no such thing. The 290,000 Americans born from illegals get paid through Medicaid

well that is 18.5B of expenses that  we do not need to pay, these people do not belong here.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#5e2b9af712c4

Edited December 12, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

Just now, aztek said:

there sure is,  keep denying reality

See, you are labeling a group of people something less than yourself even though they are just as American as you are.  Those are 290,000 Americans no matter what you think or feel. That's reality.  It's even reality in most of crazy political bias world. 

[aztek]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

See, you are labeling a group of people something less than yourself even though they are just as American as you are.  Those are 290,000 Americans no matter what you think or feel. That's reality.  It's even reality in most of crazy political bias world. 

that is how you see it,  i just see they do not belong here, no they are not American citizens, nor they are legal residents, they came here ILLEGALLY. . group of people that commit crimes are called criminals, and no i do not want to fund them and their anchor kids,

Edited December 12, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, aztek said:

that is how you see it,  i just see they do not belong here, no they are not American citizens, nor they are legal residents, they do not belong here. group of people that commit crimes are called criminals, and no i do not want to fund them and their anchor kids,

Here's a question for you.  What makes you a US citizen and how is it different from those kids?

If you start reading the Constitution, you might be surprised.

[aztek]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Here's a question for you.  What makes you a US citizen and how is it different from those kids?

If you start reading the Constitution, you might be surprised.

if i have to explain that to you i think we are done here.    my parents did not come to this country illegally that is all you need to know

Edited December 12, 2018 by aztek

[Gromdor]

Just now, aztek said:

if i have to explain that to you i think we are done here.

I'll answer for you.  The US has Birthright Citizenship. 

We pretty much are done.  Your beliefs diverge from reality.  I can't debate someone's delusion or dream. 

[aztek]

yea, it does, for now

[+DieChecker]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

My point was, I think that hospitals probably deliberately inflate the costs of childbirth to fleece insurance companies, consumers, and medicaid as evidence by the cost of childbirth in other countries ($2000-4000) compared to the US ($40,000).

That point is true regarding not just childbirth. I think insurance is overbilled for everything. And it is one reason healthcare costs so much, and insurance costs so much. Also it is why health professionals get paid so much.

[+DieChecker]

I do believe in birthright citizenship, but I do not believe in birthright residency. If a child is born in the US they are a citizen. And they are welcome to live here with a resident alien, or citizen, anytime they want. Any illegal parent has to go home when their visa expires, or if they are caught and deported.

[Gromdor]

Just now, DieChecker said:

I do believe in birthright citizenship, but I do not believe in birthright residency. If a child is born in the US they are a citizen. And they are welcome to live here with a resident alien, or citizen, anytime they want. Any illegal parent has to go home when their visa expires, or if they are caught and deported.

Oh, I'm fine with that.  It's just the outright denial of what our Constitution says and refusal to acknowledge a whole group of people as citizens because of their parentage or ethnic origin that irks me.

[aztek]

you just can't stop bringing race \ ethnicity into it, can you?  you just can't see that it's all about law and order.

 

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Enough with the personal attacks please.

[aztek]

guess who is losing his $12 an hour job, that poor sob who demanded $15, 

[GoldenWolf]

11 minutes ago, aztek said:

guess who is losing his $12 an hour job, that poor sob who demanded $15, 

Demented.