Pro-life Want The Death Penalty!

[aztek]

i do not think these issues are connected, nothing wrong with not wanting to kill unborn babies, even thou i am not pro life,  there is also nothing wrong with executing people who deserve it,  i'm pro choice, pro DP.

Edited November 21, 2018 by aztek

[DodgyDaoist]

30 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

They do? Not here in the states. Women are running the show over here in nearly every category.

Look closer ,that may be the case in many careers and positions, however if that were actually true the abortion debate would not still be being decided on by men.

When it comes to abortion, the majority of decision makers around the world regulating it still remain men.

Whether one admits it or not , patriachy still reigns supreme in the halls of power.

[preacherman76]

27 minutes ago, DodgyDaoist said:

Look closer ,that may be the case in many careers and positions, however if that were actually true the abortion debate would not still be being decided on by men.

When it comes to abortion, the majority of decision makers around the world regulating it still remain men.

Whether one admits it or not , patriachy still reigns supreme in the halls of power.

The Supreme Court has ruled abortion to be a civil right. Any debate since then is meaningless. Any attempt at legislation will be shut down. The people who drafted this law have just as good a chance of growing wings and flying then they do having this law stand. The "patriarchy" doesn't exist.

[jbondo]

5 hours ago, danydandan said:

I was reading an article about a bill that's being debated or discussed in Ohio, it's a pro-life bill that's making it possible to criminalise pregnant women and women who have had an abortion. 

The bill is called HB 565, it's looking to redifine what constitutes as abortion. It's also looking to define an abortion as taking place from fertilization to birth.

"The measure also redefines abortion to mean the purposeful termination of a pregnancy by any person, including the pregnant person, any method, including, but not limited to, chemical methods, medical methods, and surgical methods.”

Under this Ohio bill, a pregnant person or abortion provider could be subject to criminal charges, including the charge of murder. They could face life in prison or the death penalty. The bill includes a provision that says the pregnant person can avoid these consequences in criminal or civil court if they are willing to be part of a hearing, provide information to investigators, or make a report. But this does not apply to health care providers performing abortions.

So how can you be pro-life and ok with carrying out a potential death penalty? Fairly contradictory and oxymoronic isn't it? Any America's that can provide some insight into this?

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA132-HB-565

Are you really comparing convicted murderers to innocent babies? Where is the logic in that? Pro lifers are speaking for unborn children who can't speak for themselves. Nor have they committed a crime.

Maybe if people took more responsibility, these pregnancies wouldn't be happening. The level of morality in America is appalling. People are weak willed and could care less about consequences in life. This is due in large part to our wonderful socialist public school system and the anything goes mentality permeating society. Not to mention a biased news media that pushes their agenda instead of reporting the news.

We are supposed to be advancing, yet seems to me, we are regressing. Plenty of technology, but it's used to hurt others. Instead of using the vast reaches of the internet to learn and develop, people prefer to attack each other and become nasty and belligerent, not to mention the PC Police, who patrol social media in search of someone to be offended by so they can destroy a job, career, or business to get attention. Yeah, I have a big problem with the way we use tech today. Just ask former Facebook exec, Chamath Palihapitiya what he thinks of social media..

Although it seems I'm straying off subject, there is a ripple effect and you can find connections in this, such as apps like Tinder. As a man, I'd be called strange, but I never saw casual sex as good. It's unhealthy and women tend to feel terrible the next day. I had one encounter when I younger and sat up all night thinking about how I had degraded myself in having sex with a virtual stranger. Maybe if there were less sex happening outside marriage, we wouldn't have this abortion debate.

I'm sure I'll take heat for what I'm saying here, but people can call me whatever they wish and yes, I do have strong opinions. Far too many just follow the crowd at chow time and don't stand for anything, fearing being different. I stand by my convictions, no matter the outcome. I'd rather be banished off the grid than compromise my integrity.

[danydandan]

6 minutes ago, jbondo said:

Are you really comparing convicted murderers to innocent babies? Where is the logic in that? Pro lifers are speaking for unborn children who can't speak for themselves. Nor have they committed a crime.

Maybe if people took more responsibility, these pregnancies wouldn't be happening. The level of morality in America is appalling. People are weak willed and could care less about consequences in life. This is due in large part to our wonderful socialist public school system and the anything goes mentality permeating society. Not to mention a biased news media that pushes their agenda instead of reporting the news.

We are supposed to be advancing, yet seems to me, we are regressing. Plenty of technology, but it's used to hurt others. Instead of using the vast reaches of the internet to learn and develop, people prefer to attack each other and become nasty and belligerent, not to mention the PC Police, who patrol social media in search of someone to be offended by so they can destroy a job, career, or business to get attention. Yeah, I have a big problem with the way we use tech today. Just ask former Facebook exec, Chamath Palihapitiya what he thinks of social media..

Although it seems I'm straying off subject, there is a ripple effect and you can find connections in this, such as apps like Tinder. As a man, I'd be called strange, but I never saw casual sex as good. It's unhealthy and women tend to feel terrible the next day. I had one encounter when I younger and sat up all night thinking about how I had degraded myself in having sex with a virtual stranger. Maybe if there were less sex happening outside marriage, we wouldn't have this abortion debate.

I'm sure I'll take heat for what I'm saying here, but people can call me whatever they wish and yes, I do have strong opinions. Far too many just follow the crowd at chow time and don't stand for anything, fearing being different. I stand by my convictions, no matter the outcome. I'd rather be banished off the grid than compromise my integrity.

All I'm asking is how can you logically be pro-life and pro-death at the same time.

I'm not here for a lecture in morality, nor any debate on pro-life or pro-choice. If this thread distends into this I'll request it to be closed because it's a topic I'd not care to discuss and it gets too personal and volatile. 

In your response you didn't even address the question. So what was the point?

[aztek]

7 hours ago, danydandan said:

All I'm asking is how can you logically be pro-life and pro-death at the same time.

 

easy, you are not applying same principles to both groups, one is unborn babies other is a criminal.  very different groups. you are not advocating these 2 should be treated equally, are you?

 

 

[Rlyeh]

17 minutes ago, jbondo said:

Although it seems I'm straying off subject, there is a ripple effect and you can find connections in this, such as apps like Tinder. As a man, I'd be called strange, but I never saw casual sex as good. It's unhealthy and women tend to feel terrible the next day. I had one encounter when I younger and sat up all night thinking about how I had degraded myself in having sex with a virtual stranger. Maybe if there were less sex happening outside marriage, we wouldn't have this abortion debate.

Teaching abstinence has really solved this problem hasn't it?

[danydandan]

7 minutes ago, aztek said:

easy, you are not applying same principles to both groups, one is unborn babies other is a criminal.  very different groups. you are not advocating these 2 should be treated equally, are you?

 

 

Yes because by definition, pro-life is being opposed abortion and euthanasia.

 

[aztek]

6 hours ago, danydandan said:

Yes because by definition, pro-life is being opposed abortion and euthanasia.

 

think of it as pest control,  and it would not conflict with your beliefs

[danydandan]

26 minutes ago, aztek said:

think of it as pest control,  and it would not conflict with your beliefs

Same can be said for both abortion and euthanasia.

Regardless, I'm pro choice and in favor of the death penalty.

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, danydandan said:

I was reading an article about a bill that's being debated or discussed in Ohio, it's a pro-life bill that's making it possible to criminalise pregnant women and women who have had an abortion. 

The bill is called HB 565, it's looking to redifine what constitutes as abortion. It's also looking to define an abortion as taking place from fertilization to birth.

"The measure also redefines abortion to mean the purposeful termination of a pregnancy by any person, including the pregnant person, any method, including, but not limited to, chemical methods, medical methods, and surgical methods.”

Under this Ohio bill, a pregnant person or abortion provider could be subject to criminal charges, including the charge of murder. They could face life in prison or the death penalty. The bill includes a provision that says the pregnant person can avoid these consequences in criminal or civil court if they are willing to be part of a hearing, provide information to investigators, or make a report. But this does not apply to health care providers performing abortions.

So how can you be pro-life and ok with carrying out a potential death penalty? Fairly contradictory and oxymoronic isn't it? Any America's that can provide some insight into this?

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA132-HB-565

After attempting to scan through that blizzard of numbers and text, I couldn't find the relevant portion to read but I checked on the numbers for Ohio for 2017.  There were about 20,000 induced abortions.  That was up about 1% from 2016 but the trend since 2001 has been a decrease of approximately 800 per year.  I don't have any desire to compare those numbers state by state because frankly, it depresses me but the likelihood of any state in America executing a woman because she chose to abort her child, for ANY reason, is practically nil.  It just wouldn't happen.  I live in the heart of the Bible belt and I don't know a single soul who'd demand such punishment.  As to the broader disconnect about a person being pro-life yet supporting the death penalty, I can only speak for myself but I believe that when a sane adult purposefully kills other people, they have lost the right to live amongst us.  They have become a danger to all.  I reject the assumption that allowing states to execute murderers is equivalent to murder.  OTOH, I believe that the conscience of the majority of that state should determine the policy and if life imprisonment is their choice, I'm fine with that.  

[aztek]

6 hours ago, danydandan said:

Same can be said for both abortion and euthanasia.

 

only if you equate unborn baby to a criminal who deserve DP

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Evangelical religious voters (men and women alike) that republicans pander too have a low opinion of women.

"All people from urban Ohio are angry, snarky, antisocial dotards".  See?  Others can spew generalities as well.  Does it make them valid?  There's a wonderful rhetorical tool that you can use that actually makes that assinine statement of your's somewhat more palatable: Using "I believe" or "In my opinion" as a predicate to the inane statement.  How much time have you spent inside such communities?  How do you come to such an opinion?

[preacherman76]

Yeah SJW's are clearly replacing the old holier then thou Christians. No tolerance, and vicious hatred. And seem to be about the most angry unhappy people among us.

 

ETA- At least in my experience.

Edited November 21, 2018 by preacherman76

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, aztek said:

only if you equate unborn baby to a criminal who deserve DP

Think of it as pest control.

[aztek]

4 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Think of it as pest control.

unborn baby is a pest??? you have some seriously effed up view of the world

[Rlyeh]

Just now, aztek said:

unborn baby is a pest??? you have some seriously effed up view of the world

This coming from someone who just compared executions to pest control.

[aztek]

4 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

This coming from someone who just compared executions to pest control.

i absolutely did compared criminals who deserve DP to  pests, they are nothing but pests, you however compared unborn kids to pests, that says volumes about you. what is even worst you do not see any difference,

Edited November 21, 2018 by aztek

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, jbondo said:

Maybe if people took more responsibility, these pregnancies wouldn't be happening. The level of morality in America is appalling. People are weak willed and could care less about consequences in life.

Could be so.  I would say that men are at least half of the problem.  

[Rlyeh]

19 minutes ago, aztek said:

i absolutely did compared criminals who deserve DP to  pests, they are nothing but pests, you however compared unborn kids to pests, that says volumes about you. what is even worst you do not see any difference,

Yet innocent people have still been put to death, are they still pests?  If you can compare the death penalty to pest control, abortion isn't that much different.  Both are removing the unwanted even though they may not deserve it.

[aztek]

4 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Yet innocent people have still been put to death, are they still pests?  If you can compare the death penalty to pest control, abortion isn't that much different.  Both are removing the unwanted even though they may not deserve it.

it is very different, like light years apart different,

[Rlyeh]

Just now, aztek said:

it is very different, like light years apart different,

The only difference is you've convinced yourself one of them is justice. You have no problem sticking an actual person on death row for decades, but terminating a fetus is just wrong.

[aztek]

3 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The only difference is you've convinced yourself one of them is justice. You have no problem sticking an actual person on death row for decades, but terminating a fetus is just wrong.

i do not think it's wrong,  i'm pro choice, but it has nothing in common with criminals who deserve DP. absolutely nothing in common

you've convinced yourself all life is priceless, and i believe it is a fallacy.

[Rlyeh]

Just now, aztek said:

i do not think it's wrong,  i'm pro choice, but it has nothing in common with criminals who deserve DP. absolutely nothing in common

you've convinced yourself all life is priceless, and i believe it is a fallacy.

I'm in favour of a death penalty, just not what the US has. Not because of justice but for space and resources.

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

I'm in favour of a death penalty, just not what the US has. Not because of justice but for space and resources.

Who gets to decide who lives and who dies? At least with the US system, chances are they at least did something to deserve death. You want to just take out normal law abiding people? Not that I'd agree with this either, but wouldn't forced sterilization be better then direct depopulation? What exactly are you saying here?