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markdohle

God and science

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Will Due
1 hour ago, third_eye said:

~

[00.04:41]

 

~

When God met Science ....

 

 

Or, it's when you met God.

 

 

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third_eye
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Or, it's when you met God.

 

 

No you silly Willy ... I showed your god that you ain't no good

~

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StarMountainKid

God as Cosmic scientist who had engineers and technicians working for Itself. The reason we can assume this to be true is, because of the consciousness that evolved within the mechanism can conceive of this concept. 

The idea that Reality came into being spontaneously from nothing is not valid because this concept is not evident from the operation of the mechanism itself. 

The nature of Reality is a unity in which every element depends on the operation of all other elements. Spontaneous creation would not have this essential relationship among its various elements.

So God and science are equal elements in the nature of Reality. 

This here supposition I think is as valid as any other offering in this thread. Who can argue convincingly against it?

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Guyver
4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I don't care what you think. 

I don’t care that you don’t care what I think.  haha.  That’s good.  It reminds me of a scene from Kill Bill where Beatrix Kiddo is telling Sophie why she’s letting her live.  Fricken classic.

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Guyver
4 hours ago, Dejarma said:

yes that's the right/ obvious & logical thing to do! why risk climbing when you've got one at arms length!?

i'm sure XenoFish  was referring to the universe in general & not individual feelings........ your man & dog analogy works but when the human dies then it's all lost- an insignificant occurrence as far as the universe is concerned..

anyways, if onlookers see you climbing a tree to get to an apple when there's one right in front of you they'd probably think you're an idiot! all due respect............ 

You know what has occurred to me?  I think some of you people equate permanence with meaning.  Which is odd, because you all know that the universe is not permanent right?  I mean, what has a beginning has an ending.  

The fact that something is experienced and enjoyed means that it has meaning, whether that moment be fleeting or not.

But of course, that’s how I see things for anyone who cares.

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danydandan
4 hours ago, Guyver said:

So?  What did you expect.  If you want pure science, you can try the science forum.  The topic is on God and Science....so we should expect to get a little bit of everything.  I haven't heard anyone arguing for how science and God go together, especially since I didn't watch the OP video.....

But, if I were to argue for it myself......I would consider the nature of information, the synergy and symbiotic relationship between living organisms on this planet, and the nature of water......for starters.  

They don't really go together.

 

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Guyver
6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

They don't really go together.

 

I think you’re right.  But life goes together.  I mean, it’s crazy to think that you live and I live but we don’t share the same reality.  I mean, in my humble opinion that is.  

So, in that sense, it means that life does in fact have meaning.  Even if we are the only ones acknowledging that meaning, it is meaning nonetheless.

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danydandan
5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I think you’re right.  But life goes together.  I mean, it’s crazy to think that you live and I live but we don’t share the same reality.  I mean, in my humble opinion that is.  

So, in that sense, it means that life does in fact have meaning.  Even if we are the only ones acknowledging that meaning, it is meaning nonetheless.

Not real, all reality is, is a mass consensus of subjective observations. Or is it?

Imagine you lived on an island where all inhabitants were colour blinded. Then one day a mutation occurs to a newly born baby and this baby isn't colour blinded. Imagine how futile it would be for that kid to argue that in fact I see all different colours not just black white or shades of grey. Reality for these people is yeap everything is a variation of grey.

But we all share the same reality, the laws of motion, thermodynamics, electromagnetism are all the same to everyone, everywhere we know of. Thus it's easily shown that although we might perceive our reality differently, the reality itself is just one true reality.

God, Jesus, Allah, *or insert God concept here* has no place in science.

Plus life is only as meaningful or as meaningless as you make it. 

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Avinash Suresh
9 hours ago, danydandan said:

When someone is expecting you to go read a book to discuss something with them it's annoying.

"Oh yeah wait there for two days I'll purchase the book you said I should read and I'll discuss it with you then after I'm done with it." 

Why not just give me a little paragraph on what your talking about. Has anyone read a book on Biocentrism? Not the philosophical argument, apparently it's a biological Theory of Everything that has exactly zero peer reviewed academic papers on the topic.

I always prefer reading the whole book rather than a paragraph.

And so, I didn't give you any summary which you expect. Without going through the whole story, you cannot make effective conclusions.

If it's annoying that I'm sharing something useful, you can always choose to ignore me.

Regarding peer reviewed papers, they are always edited out. So the essence of the theory changes.

If you are not interested, why bother?

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Avinash Suresh
9 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Not real, all reality is, is a mass consensus of subjective observations. Or is it?

Imagine you lived on an island where all inhabitants were colour blinded. Then one day a mutation occurs to a newly born baby and this baby isn't colour blinded. Imagine how futile it would be for that kid to argue that in fact I see all different colours not just black white or shades of grey. Reality for these people is yeap everything is a variation of grey.

But we all share the same reality, the laws of motion, thermodynamics, electromagnetism are all the same to everyone, everywhere we know of. Thus it's easily shown that although we might perceive our reality differently, the reality itself is just one true reality.

God, Jesus, Allah, *or insert God concept here* has no place in science.

Plus life is only as meaningful or as meaningless as you make it. 

Life is meaningless without Love

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danydandan
16 minutes ago, Avinash Suresh said:

I always prefer reading the whole book rather than a paragraph.

And so, I didn't give you any summary which you expect. Without going through the whole story, you cannot make effective conclusions.

If it's annoying that I'm sharing something useful, you can always choose to ignore me.

Regarding peer reviewed papers, they are always edited out. So the essence of the theory changes.

If you are not interested, why bother?

Edited out? 

Do you even know what you're talking about here? 

I was/am interested that's why I searched for peer reviewed papers on said hypothesis.

I will be ignoring your comments in the future.

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Guyver
15 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Not real, all reality is, is a mass consensus of subjective observations. Or is it?

Imagine you lived on an island where all inhabitants were colour blinded. Then one day a mutation occurs to a newly born baby and this baby isn't colour blinded. Imagine how futile it would be for that kid to argue that in fact I see all different colours not just black white or shades of grey. Reality for these people is yeap everything is a variation of grey.

But we all share the same reality, the laws of motion, thermodynamics, electromagnetism are all the same to everyone, everywhere we know of. Thus it's easily shown that although we might perceive our reality differently, the reality itself is just one true reality.

God, Jesus, Allah, *or insert God concept here* has no place in science.

Plus life is only as meaningful or as meaningless as you make it. 

We have parts in our bodies that are as old as the stars.  This is reason enough to consider God and science, IMHO.

I don’t know New Age Religion very well, but I know that it offers the idea that we are all God.  I don’t understand what they actually mean by this, but I suspect it may have something in common with the Hindu and even Buddhist view that we are all part of all that is, which makes us a part of God.  In this sense, God is all that is.

i find this to be worthy of contemplation.

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Guyver
12 minutes ago, Avinash Suresh said:

Life is meaningless without Love

Nice.

if that is not a good song topic, I’ve never heard one.

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Avinash Suresh
46 minutes ago, danydandan said:

They don't really go together.

 

Most of us are left brain dominant, better at analyzing and classifying things. It's sole basis of argument is logic. It likes to break out things and look them as parts. It is based on linear thinking. Such people are scientific.

Right brain on the other hand, is creative. It likes to see things as a whole. It is based on lateral thinking. Such people are artistic.

When you combine the two, magic happens. So saying that two branches of the same Knowledge of Reality don't go together is like saying your hands and legs don't go together. Even if they are different body parts, they need to coordination among them. This coordination is what links them. So they are separate, but still one.

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danydandan
32 minutes ago, Guyver said:

We have parts in our bodies that are as old as the stars.  This is reason enough to consider God and science, IMHO.

I don’t know New Age Religion very well, but I know that it offers the idea that we are all God.  I don’t understand what they actually mean by this, but I suspect it may have something in common with the Hindu and even Buddhist view that we are all part of all that is, which makes us a part of God.  In this sense, God is all that is.

i find this to be worthy of contemplation.

Everything in our bodies is matter from old stars. I think that's beautiful isn't it? We are all star dust my friend.

Even our go to example of religion in these thread's, Christianity, has that concept of God being in all of us. I think it's in Ephesians where it's said God is within you all. My favorite one is Corinthians 3:16 ( big Stone Cold Steve Austin fan.) "Don't you know you are a temple of God and that the spirt of God dwells within?

As a physicist I must leave my opinion of God at the door of the lab. Biases have no place in science. Trying to prove God or trying to find God breaths biases. In my opinion. I know plenty of scientist's who go to church or mass every Sunday, God doesn't get involved in their work he might inspire it but they all know our beliefs aren't welcome in the lab.

So yeah like I said earlier God may inspire or be influential on why you research a topic. But God should not colour your conclusions of said research.

Edited by danydandan
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danydandan
28 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Nice.

if that is not a good song topic, I’ve never heard one.

It's a very simplistic point of view isn't it? 

Love, can we even express it meaningfully? Love is subjective also, are we saying because you can't feel love your life is meaningless or if you're not loved it's meaningless?

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crookedspiral
On 21/11/2018 at 5:06 PM, sci-nerd said:

Science is not about God. So it does not argue for or against. It simply tries to understand nature and its origin.

Tell that to the hardcore atheists here who claim that science ''disproves God''.

Edited by Clockwork_Spirit
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Guyver
15 minutes ago, danydandan said:

It's a very simplistic point of view isn't it? 

Love, can we even express it meaningfully? Love is subjective also, are we saying because you can't feel love your life is meaningless or if you're not loved it's meaningless?

What do you think love is?

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third_eye

Yes indeed ....

~
 

[00.04:51]

~

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NewAge1

Gnosis is based not in the understanding of the mind, but in the sensibility of the heart. In it's ancient form, it was concerned with a radical dualism that envisioned an Alien God who's transcendent to this Universe. Over and against many gods and godesses who are believed to reside in and to exercise a measure of control over the world we live in. The transcendent God (also called Spirit) is revealed throught fragments of light that exist in human beings and that form a bridge between the world and the dwelling place of the Most High. Who's realm is beyond the cosmos or any part of it that we are capable of exploring by rational, or scientific means. Only through revelation or to use a contemporary term, intuition, it is possible for us to gain access to gnosis. Thus it may be called: inner wisdom.

Edited by NewAge1
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danydandan
31 minutes ago, Guyver said:

What do you think love is?

A word associated with a nearly undescribable feeling.

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Truthseeker007
11 hours ago, Guyver said:

That's amazing.  I've never thought about it.  I can't say for sure if I feel pain in dreams or not......I guess I do because I have experienced sensations in dreams.  Dreams are real from the standpoint that they are from our minds, or subconscious if you will.  If we consider our thoughts real, then we should also consider dreams real, IMHO.

If we don't consider our thoughts real, then we shouldn't be typing on these computers, having discussions in this forum.  It would be lunacy.  

I remember  a few times having pain in my dreams. Researching that topic I have read that while we sleep our consciousness actually goes into other dimensions such as one being the 4th. I mean sure maybe the brain has something to do with it but can you have a vivid dream while being awake? We have to be in another state of consciousness to have these vivid dreams. There is also imagination that is very real. Once you imagine something you can go ahead and create that something whatever it may be.

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danydandan
14 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

I remember  a few times having pain in my dreams. Researching that topic I have read that while we sleep our consciousness actually goes into other dimensions such as one being the 4th. I mean sure maybe the brain has something to do with it but can you have a vivid dream while being awake? We have to be in another state of consciousness to have these vivid dreams. There is also imagination that is very real. Once you imagine something you can go ahead and create that something whatever it may be.

Pretty sure you can. It's called day dreaming. 

Just quick one, when you research a topic how do you do it? 

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Avinash Suresh
1 hour ago, Truthseeker007 said:

I remember  a few times having pain in my dreams. Researching that topic I have read that while we sleep our consciousness actually goes into other dimensions such as one being the 4th. I mean sure maybe the brain has something to do with it but can you have a vivid dream while being awake? We have to be in another state of consciousness to have these vivid dreams. There is also imagination that is very real. Once you imagine something you can go ahead and create that something whatever it may be.

Dreaming while awake is called lucid dreaming. You are aware of what's happening, but your body is at rest. In lucid dreaming, you are in control of your dreams. In this case, you are semi-conscious.

However if you are dreaming when doing something, it's called day dreaming. This is the term commonly used, but I prefer calling it visualization.In this case, you are conscious of your body. 

But it also happens that you are conscious of your body, are focused in your work and still get dreamlike images. These are called 'insights'.

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sci-nerd
7 hours ago, Clockwork_Spirit said:

Tell that to the hardcore atheists here who claim that science ''disproves God''.

There is no proof for or against. There is no data at all.
So many (like me) assumes that there is no God. It's a logic assumption, but it's more a philosophical assumption than a scientific.

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