God and science

[XenoFish]

Just now, Sherapy said:

Yeah, I have been like this too. It may be as a result of an extremely negative upbringing. 

Our childhoods sucked. 

In realty most people had rough childhoods in some ways. Either they were given everything and sheltered from the harshness of the world. Leading them to be unable to handle it. Are they were constantly exposed to the same harshness and became apathetic to it all. 

[+Sherapy]

18 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

In realty most people had rough childhoods in some ways. Either they were given everything and sheltered from the harshness of the world. Leading them to be unable to handle it. Are they were constantly exposed to the same harshness and became apathetic to it all. 

Good point, I will say this denial beyond the point of reasonable causes a lot of unneeded and exhausting suffering. 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Good point, I will say this denial beyond the point of reasonable causes a lot of unneeded and exhausting suffering. 

I think denial buffers awful situations long enough to wrap our heads around it, so we can cultivate the resilience to get through. But to often it becomes the coping style. 

I think in the context of this thread, we have people who want some sort of scientific validation for their spiritual beliefs. They need proof in order to fully believe. 

I'll be honest. My cynicism and pessimism is a defensive mechanism that allows me to better function. We all have our hangups.

[+Sherapy]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think in the context of this thread, we have people who want some sort of scientific validation for their spiritual beliefs. They need proof in order to fully believe. 

I'll be honest. My cynicism and pessimism is a defensive mechanism that allows me to better function. We all have our hangups.

 

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think in the context of this thread, we have people who want some sort of scientific validation for their spiritual beliefs. They need proof in order to fully believe. 

I'll be honest. My cynicism and pessimism is a defensive mechanism that allows me to better function. We all have our hangups.

I think pessimism can be applied as a buffer for awful situations,  long enough to wrap ones heads around it, as we cultivate the resilience to get through. But if it becomes the coping style it starts to show up as can’t bear any other perspectives, constant defending, diligence to paranoia, being in defense and attack mode as a style of communicating. Etc...

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

 

I think pessimism can be applied as a buffer for awful situations,  long enough to wrap ones heads around it, as we cultivate the resilience to get through. But if it becomes the coping style it starts to show up as can’t bear any other perspectives, constant defending, diligence to paranoia, being in defense and attack mode as a style of communicating. Etc...

I've been to this extreme. I have gotten at times to the point where I hate any optimistic point of view. It becomes a harsh thorn in my reality. That's the thing, my reality, my subjective framework. Those people who for whatever reason constantly see the bright side of life. Even when their eating breakfast while the house is on fire, saying "This is fine, everything is fine." 

It can get to the point of despair and nihilism. Then again by become overly optimistic you expect that life will just hand you everything that you deserve. All because you think you're special, one of the chosen few. 

It's a double edged sword. 

The thing about our own personal reality is that they are only ours. My view of the world, the framework that I have cultivated and created is mine alone. It is not right nor wrong. But it's the cause and effect relationship that it generates, that's what matters. 

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think in the context of this thread, we have people who want some sort of scientific validation for their spiritual beliefs. They need proof in order to fully believe. 

I'll be honest. My cynicism and pessimism is a defensive mechanism that allows me to better function. We all have our hangups.

An add to, just my two cents, nada more.

I think for me being neutral is a fruitful  goal.. Understanding that life is going to suck and hit me with some awful things, of course, I don't want it, but its reality. Acceptance so far seems to be a good spring board, it doesn't stop the hurt or disappointment it just opens me to possible ways that can help get through, often things I didn't consider before. Especially as we get older health goes bad, people die, we might have to care for a loved one, etc. and life is going to have its amazing moments too, we have to learn to roll with life and know that we will get through and what works in one situation may not be what is best for the next. For me, letting go of preference ( don't want to deal with this or that) and expectations ( the outcome that is planned out in my head) is the challenge and when I finally remember to apply this it seems to help. 

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

An add to, just my two cents, nada more.

I think for me being neutral is a fruitful  goal.. Understanding that life is going to suck and hit me with some awful things, of course, I don't want it, but its reality. Acceptance so far seems to be a good spring board, it doesn't stop the hurt or disappointment it just opens me to possible ways that can help get through, often things I didn't consider before. Especially as we get older health goes bad, people die, we might have to care for a loved one, etc. and life is going to have its amazing moments too, we have to learn to roll with life and know that we will get through and what works in one situation may not be what is best for the next. For me, letting go of preference ( don't want to deal with this or that) and expectations ( the outcome that is planned out in my head) is the challenge and when I finally remember to apply this it seems to help. 

I sometimes use the term "giving up" which is seen as being negative. A lot of times it is when I use it but there is a philosophy to it. There are times when I throw my hands up and say "F it." and keep going. I'm fighting my own inner turmoil between caring, not caring, and just riding the wave. Tired of looking for meaning, tired of trying to find a purpose, tired of trying to make it all matter. So I often find myself saying "F it", no goals, no expectations, just riding the wave of wtf-ever.

[+Sherapy]

15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've been to this extreme. I have gotten at times to the point where I hate any optimistic point of view. It becomes a harsh thorn in my reality. That's the thing, my reality, my subjective framework. Those people who for whatever reason constantly see the bright side of life. Even when their eating breakfast while the house is on fire, saying "This is fine, everything is fine." 

It can get to the point of despair and nihilism. Then again by become overly optimistic you expect that life will just hand you everything that you deserve. All because you think you're special, one of the chosen few. 

It's a double edged sword. 

The thing about our own personal reality is that they are only ours. My view of the world, the framework that I have cultivated and created is mine alone. It is not right nor wrong. But it's the cause and effect relationship that it generates, that's what matters. 

They don't though it's the bs of denial clouding them, in reality we can all see it is their coping mechanism which consumes them. Look at MW, Will ( no offense to them, just a good example of s

denial as a lifestyle) Then look at Dan or Hammerclaw they have had some serious shyt hit them, they have gone on.

I have been the way too overly negative, as you I fricken faced it and in doing so found my way out. You are doing everything right. Getting real with yourself is the way out. I am not so convinced it's because of religion but more one is drawn to things that support their inner reality. 

I do agree that god can be used and abused as a denial mechanism, but not all do. Again look at Dan and Hammer. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I sometimes use the term "giving up" which is seen as being negative. A lot of times it is when I use it but there is a philosophy to it. There are times when I throw my hands up and say "F it." and keep going. I'm fighting my own inner turmoil between caring, not caring, and just riding the wave. Tired of looking for meaning, tired of trying to find a purpose, tired of trying to make it all matter. So I often find myself saying "F it", no goals, no expectations, just riding the wave of wtf-ever.

Giving up can be reframed as letting go, geez, however you get there is fine it is that you get there that matters. 

Letting go cleans the mental slate, clears our head from the noise and helps us see what really matters and then we go from there. A lot of times things work themsl gets out without our help. I see this a lot when I get out of my own way. 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

They don't though it's the bs of denial clouding them, in reality we can all see it is their coping mechanism which consumes them. Look at MW, Will ( no offense to them, just a good example of what we don't want) Then look at Dan or Hammerclaw they have had some serious shyt hit them. 

I have been the way too overly negative, as you I fricken faced it and in doing so found my way out. You are doing everything right. Getting real with yourself is the way out. I am not so convinced it's because of religion but more one is drawn to things that support their inner reality. 

I do agree that god can be used and abused as a denial mechanism, but not all do. Again look at Dan and Hammer. 

I won't disagree with you about Dan and Hammer. Not at all. I find them pleasant to converse with. In the case of MW and Will (especially Will) you can't have a conversation with either. One like to be perpetually right, the other is so defensive any discussion become fortune cookie babble. I'm just now starting to dislodge my head from my backside.

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Giving up can be reframed as letting go, geez, however you get there is fine it is that you get there that matters. 

Letting go cleans the mental slate, clears our head from the noise and helps us see what really matters and then we go from there. A lot of times things work themsl gets out without our help. I see this a lot when I get out of my own way. 

 

I have this overwhelming self-hatred and anger, all due to expectations. Namely false or exaggerate expectations at to how life is supposed to be. Guess it's a side effect of that 80's and 90's positive thinking brainwashing they did to us. Pumped up our expectations not realizing how much it'll crash down. 

[+Sherapy]

24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I won't disagree with you about Dan and Hammer. Not at all. I find them pleasant to converse with. In the case of MW and Will (especially Will) you can't have a conversation with either. One like to be perpetually right, the other is so defensive any discussion become fortune cookie babble. I'm just now starting to dislodge my head from my backside.

I have been Will, and MW in the course of my life, I know the path it doesn't work for me, and it doesn't really work for them, the more one needs to defend something the more it is a crutch, as oppossed to a tool to move forward.  IMHO

Yes, Dan and Hammer use their faith in a way that helps them move forward, they are not trying to escape their lives. 

Big difference. Right.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sherapy

[StarMountainKid]

12 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Giving up can be reframed as letting go, geez, however you get there is fine it is that you get there that matters. 

Letting go cleans the mental slate, clears our head from the noise and helps us see what really matters and then we go from there. A lot of times things work themsl gets out without our help. I see this a lot when I get out of my own way. 

 

I agree that "letting go" is good therapy. We all tend to use too much energy clinging to ourselves. Better to just watch events unfold as they will. In this way we can better understand what is happening. Just by observing.

When we try to force events with our will to some pre-conceived conclusion, we often create more conflict. 

[+Sherapy]

22 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I have this overwhelming self-hatred and anger, all due to expectations. Namely false or exaggerate expectations at to how life is supposed to be. Guess it's a side effect of that 80's and 90's positive thinking brainwashing they did to us. Pumped up our expectations not realizing how much it'll crash down. 

Yes, you want life to match the ideal you hold in your head and in doing so you are avoiding reality which keeps the resentment and anger fueled. 

There is always some ego and emotional investment involved too. Facing reality is typically the way out. 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Yes, you want life to match the ideal you hold in your head and in doing so you are avoiding reality which keeps the resentment and anger fueled. 

There is always some ego and emotional investment involved too. Facing reality is typically the way out. 

 

I've found that if I try to live under a strict schedule with rule, guidelines and goals, I am the most miserable. When I just do whatever I want I am the most free. Not in the self indulgent way, but just doing. I honestly feel that for myself that simplicity is the best. The more complicated that I try to make things, the more frustrating they become. Guess that's why I'm not religious.

[danydandan]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Your your link in the dopamine thread suggests, if I am understanding this,  that dopamine plays a huge role in our perception of reality as an individual “me” in the experiential sense. Say I strongly beleive in ghosts I am going to interpret my external reality in line with my beliefs with the help of dopamine, in other words, I will look to assign meaning to things that do not exist because I beleive this to begin with?

Am I making sense? 

Can I get your help on refining my understanding? 

I don't think it needs more refinement!

Just kinda swap a few works in the following. "Seeing is believing" into "Believing allows you to see" and you've got it. 

Imagine you read a ghost story about a haunted house, you go do a paranormal investigation. Your emotionally invested, you think you see or hear something. You get a little horny dopamine rush right? You're basically confirming your beliefs. But in reality you actually didn't see anything, you've had a go-pro camera on the whole time, and when reviewing the tape the thing you though you saw. Well it isn't on the tape. What happens then? Your body or I should say your brain wants that dopamine again your going to reject the go pro footage and stick with the I think I saw so I know I saw story.

As for me having faith, I do not have any faith. Except for having faith in my Wife and family. I'm simply an Agnostic Theist. 

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I'm simply an Agnostic Theist. 

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this. When I look it up it reminds me of ignosticism.

[+Sherapy]

6 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I don't think it needs more refinement!

Just kinda swap a few works in the following. "Seeing is believing" into "Believing allows you to see" and you've got it. 

Imagine you read a ghost story about a haunted house, you go do a paranormal investigation. Your emotionally invested, you think you see or hear something. You get a little horny dopamine rush right? You're basically confirming your beliefs. But in reality you actually didn't see anything, you've had a go-pro camera on the whole time, and when reviewing the tape the thing you though you saw. Well it isn't on the tape. What happens then? Your body or I should say your brain wants that dopamine again your going to reject the go pro footage and stick with the I think I saw so I know I saw story.

As for me having faith, I do not have any faith. Except for having faith in my Wife and family. I'm simply an Agnostic Theist. 

Thank you for your help.

And I stand corrected, you are an Agnostic Theist. I am taking this to mean on the big questions your stance is you don’t know and theist is a tipping your hat to the respect of tradition. Is this correct?

 

 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've found that if I try to live under a strict schedule with rule, guidelines and goals, I am the most miserable. When I just do whatever I want I am the most free. Not in the self indulgent way, but just doing. I honestly feel that for myself that simplicity is the best. The more complicated that I try to make things, the more frustrating they become. Guess that's why I'm not religious.

There you go, my vibe is simplicity too. It is so much easier this way. I credit the male species for this wonderful wisdom, 

My hubby being my inspiration, he just doesn’t over complicate things. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

There you go, my vibe is simplicity too. It is so much easier this way. I credit the male species for this wonderful wisdom, 

My hubby being my inspiration, he just doesn’t over complicate things. 

I blame my monkey brain for it.

[danydandan]

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this. When I look it up it reminds me of ignosticism.

If I was on a scale of zero to ten.

Zero being Atheist and ten being Theist. I'm 5.1 on the scale.

9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

And I stand corrected, you are an Agnostic Theist. I am taking this to mean on the big questions your stance is you don’t know and theist is a tipping your hat to the respect of tradition. Is this correct?

My belief is probably due to my upbringing. Certainly influenced it, but not defined by it. 

I suppose I'd more identify as simply being Stoic.

Edited November 25, 2018 by danydandan

[StarMountainKid]

According to Buddhism, your karma is the situation you are in now, created by you. Your situation is some good, some bad. 

We are continually creating this good and bad karma, creating situations beneficial and detrimental to ourselves.

The only way out of this is to behave spontaneously without pre-determination, by "letting go", by allowing events to unfold as they will.  In this way, because we are not trying to manipulate events, we accrue no karma for ourselves. 

We become the natural flow of life and can see clearly what is happening without manipulative interfering, which always creates conflict. 

Can we understand the advantage of this way?

[danydandan]

2 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

According to Buddhism, your karma is the situation you are in now, created by you. Your situation is some good, some bad. 

We are continually creating this good and bad karma, creating situations beneficial and detrimental to ourselves.

The only way out of this is to behave spontaneously without pre-determination, by "letting go", by allowing events to unfold as they will.  In this way, because we are not trying to manipulate events, we accrue no karma for ourselves. 

We become the natural flow of life and can see clearly what is happening without manipulative interfering, which always creates conflict. 

Can we understand the advantage of this way?

Or a few simple words.

Just go with the flow.

[XenoFish]

11 minutes ago, danydandan said:

I suppose I'd more identify as simply being Stoic.

I don't know about me. I'm an emotional roller coaster with no brakes and half the track is missing.

[danydandan]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I don't know about me. I'm an emotional roller coaster with no brakes and half the track is missing.

At least all the track ain't missing.