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markdohle

God and science

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Truthseeker007
4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

 

No that doesn't. It's the effect of memory and the psychosomatic effect. Can you remember the feelings you had after getting a tooth pulled? Can you create a mental model of that event with such clarity that you get a phantom pain? The pain isn't caused by anything real, only the memory of it. When the tooth was first pulled a real world event caused that memory to be created. 

 

I mean I can't really disagree with that. I can remember some of my past dreams though just as much as when I was run over by a truck.

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sci-nerd
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Not that difficult. 

They call it lucid dreams. I've tried it maybe 3-4 times in my life. 99.9999% of my dreams I think it's real.

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XenoFish
Just now, Truthseeker007 said:

I mean I can't really disagree with that. I can remember some of my past dreams though just as much as when I was run over by a truck.

That's just a memory. Here's an exercise everyone can do.

Think of a yawn. The sound, feeling, and sensation of yawning. Imagine it, imagine yourself yawning, think of others yawning and "hear it" in your mind. Repeat this over and over in your mind again. Tell me what happens. 

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XenoFish
Just now, sci-nerd said:

They call it lucid dreams. I've tried it maybe 3-4 times in my life. 99.9999% of my dreams I think it's real.

Try doing it daily. If you're having trouble discerning the dream world from the real world you might have psychological issues. In the real world no one can fly like superman.

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sci-nerd
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If you're having trouble discerning the dream world from the real world you might have psychological issues.

Don't worry, pal, I have no problems on that account.

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Try doing it daily.

Lucid dreams daily? Daily? I think you are the exception to the rule, bro!  In normal dreams, most people think it's real, until they awake.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

Lucid dreams daily? Daily? I think you are the exception to the rule, bro!  In normal dreams, most people think it's real, until they awake.

Remember I had spent almost 25 years in the occult. I'm a psychonaut. You have to keep a firm grip on the objective reality and the subjective experience of it. Some people can't. 

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sci-nerd
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Remember I had spent almost 25 years in the occult. I'm a psychonaut. You have to keep a firm grip on the objective reality and the subjective experience of it. Some people can't. 

Well you certainly crushed my illusion of a stone cold, hardcore, cynical realist there...!

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jmccr8
24 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

So you actually know you are dreaming when you dream? Wow! That's amazing!

Hi Sci- nerd

As far as I recall here in the forum the is one member here that uses reality checkers to determine dream states.

jmccr8

 

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XenoFish
2 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Well you certainly crushed my illusion of a stone cold, hardcore, cynical realist there...!

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you don't have an objective perspective on these things, you get weird. Magical thinking is a harsh drug to kick. You'll start using magical thinking to fill in the blanks, like using the word dimension wrong, and trying to connect anything sciency to anything or everything metaphysical. How abused in the word quantum? 

quantum-carburetor-morty-you-cant-just-a

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Dejarma
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

OK.  Well, if you'd like to understand more, just let me know and I'll explain it to you when I get a chance.  

oh please

Edited by Dejarma

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sci-nerd
8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you don't have an objective perspective on these things, you get weird. Magical thinking is a harsh drug to kick. You'll start using magical thinking to fill in the blanks, like using the word dimension wrong, and trying to connect anything sciency to anything or everything metaphysical. How abused in the word quantum?

If you mean my earlier reply about dimensions, I do know the difference between dimensions and a quantum multiverse. But sometimes people mix it up and you need to decide what they actually mean. I decided that he meant the multiverse. Maybe I was wrong.

Btw, I'm very sceptic about the upper (and lower) dimensions. I see it as science fantasy. But I'm more than open to any proof.

Edited by sci-nerd

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XenoFish
7 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

If you mean my earlier reply about dimensions, I do know the difference between dimensions and a quantum multiverse. But sometimes people mix it up and you need to decide what they actually mean. I decided that he meant the multiverse. Maybe I was wrong.

Btw, I'm very sceptic about the upper (and lower) dimensions. I see it as science fantasy. But I'm more than open to any proof.

I mean in general. I see that word tossed around a lot. I think my favorite one is that ghost are quantum fluctuations between different dimensions (by dimensions they meant multiverse or alternative reality.) Then you have those who try to justify their magical thinking with science. Bring things in like string theory and dark matter/energy, etc. It's almost cringe worthy. It even goes to the god question, does god exist or does god not exist? My answer is that it isn't even a real question. Not an important one at that. 

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sci-nerd
13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I mean in general. I see that word tossed around a lot. I think my favorite one is that ghost are quantum fluctuations between different dimensions (by dimensions they meant multiverse or alternative reality.) Then you have those who try to justify their magical thinking with science. Bring things in like string theory and dark matter/energy, etc. It's almost cringe worthy. It even goes to the god question, does god exist or does god not exist? My answer is that it isn't even a real question. Not an important one at that. 

People will use any tool to get their agenda out. No matter if they understand the tool itself or not.

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Guyver
1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

oh please

OK.  Picking the low hanging fruit is a euphemism for selecting the easy answer, or the one that is most intuitively obvious to a person.  But that doesn't mean that it's always right.  In this case, Xeno claims that life has no meaning.  Since the sun will (presumably) expand, explode and die, leaving the Earth a frozen wasteland or literally annihilate it completely, its easy to see why a person would consider that life has no meaning.  Everything and everyone eventually dies, so there is no actual meaning.

I am disagreeing with this because the fact that everyone dies does not necessarily equate to life having no meaning.  I'm saying one must look deeper to find a suitable answer to that question.  I can think of several examples that show a different perspective.  For example, let's take a dog.  Assuming people here have had a dog as a pet, they understand that a dog and a person can have a wonderful relationship together.  They can literally make each other happy, more contented, etc. and so forth.  Yet, the owner will outlive the dog in most cases and the dog will die.  So, let's say the person and the dog lived together for ten or more years.  They were attached.  They were emotionally linked with each other.  They trusted each other, they were friends.  But, the dog dies and the person is sad.  So, that means that the dog had no meaning right?  Wrong.  The relationship the person and the dog shared was meaningful.  

A candle burns and gives off light and heat.  Does that mean that the candles existence was meaningless?  No, it does not.  The candle did what the candle was intended to do......it burned until it died.  That's what it was here for - therefore, it had meaning.  

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Guyver
3 hours ago, Guyver said:

Disagreed.  If you look it up you’ll see that dark matter is a hypothetical type of matter that is only theoretically assumed to exist because of large scale motion in the universe.  It can be observed or detected by us at this time.  

Sorry, I meant to say that dark matter cannot be detected by us at this time.  That was a typo.  

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Guyver
2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

There is absolutely nothing special about us. Dreams are just memory dumps with imagery. Visions belong to lunatics.

Well, Chief Joseph wasn't a lunatic and he had a vision.  He was a fantastic man who claimed he would fight no more forever, simply because he saw the horrors of war and the way life was wasted because of it.  He had a vision and foretold his death to his closest family members.  This was chronicled in the book about him entitled, "I will fight no more forever."

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Guyver said:

Well, Chief Joseph wasn't a lunatic and he had a vision.  He was a fantastic man who claimed he would fight no more forever, simply because he saw the horrors of war and the way life was wasted because of it.  He had a vision and foretold his death to his closest family members.  This was chronicled in the book about him entitled, "I will fight no more forever."

So. Am I supposed to care? 

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Guyver
2 hours ago, danydandan said:

The thread has regressed into a philosophical debate, dressed in a scientific dress.

So?  What did you expect.  If you want pure science, you can try the science forum.  The topic is on God and Science....so we should expect to get a little bit of everything.  I haven't heard anyone arguing for how science and God go together, especially since I didn't watch the OP video.....

But, if I were to argue for it myself......I would consider the nature of information, the synergy and symbiotic relationship between living organisms on this planet, and the nature of water......for starters.  

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Guyver
2 hours ago, Truthseeker007 said:

I can feel pain in my dreams also so does that make them real?

That's amazing.  I've never thought about it.  I can't say for sure if I feel pain in dreams or not......I guess I do because I have experienced sensations in dreams.  Dreams are real from the standpoint that they are from our minds, or subconscious if you will.  If we consider our thoughts real, then we should also consider dreams real, IMHO.

If we don't consider our thoughts real, then we shouldn't be typing on these computers, having discussions in this forum.  It would be lunacy.  

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Guyver
9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So. Am I supposed to care? 

Yes.  If you care to speak the truth that is.  You claimed visions were for lunatics and I disagree with you; just as I disagree that life has no meaning.  

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XenoFish
Just now, Guyver said:

Yes.  If you care to speak the truth that is.  You claimed visions were for lunatics and I disagree with you; just as I disagree that life has no meaning.  

I don't care what you think. 

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Dejarma
29 minutes ago, Guyver said:

OK.  Picking the low hanging fruit is a euphemism for selecting the easy answer, or the one that is most intuitively obvious to a person.  But that doesn't mean that it's always right

yes that's the right/ obvious & logical thing to do! why risk climbing when you've got one at arms length!?

i'm sure XenoFish  was referring to the universe in general & not individual feelings........ your man & dog analogy works but when the human dies then it's all lost- an insignificant occurrence as far as the universe is concerned..

anyways, if onlookers see you climbing a tree to get to an apple when there's one right in front of you they'd probably think you're an idiot! all due respect............ 

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third_eye

~

[00.04:41]

 

~

When God met Science ....

 

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jmccr8
28 minutes ago, third_eye said:

~

[00.04:41]

 

~

When God met Science ....

 

:tu:

jmccr8

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jmccr8
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

So?  What did you expect.  If you want pure science, you can try the science forum.  The topic is on God and Science....so we should expect to get a little bit of everything.  I haven't heard anyone arguing for how science and God go together, especially since I didn't watch the OP video.....

But, if I were to argue for it myself......I would consider the nature of information, the synergy and symbiotic relationship between living organisms on this planet, and the nature of water......for starters.  

Hi Guyver

I don't think it is as simple as that as personally, I don't see god as a cause of spirituality but rather the effect that spirituality has on creating god. Spirituality to me is like an emotional response to life and how we find our way through it by trying to do the best we can. 

Being skeptical is not solely unique to science when it comes to matters about spirituality or rather god concepts, living life in the environment I did made me question the existence of a god there was no science involved knowingly on my part. What I did over time was realize that we create because we give meaning to all things. Being able to have potential and have what limited intelligence that I do have is god so I don't have to look for a significant other to make sense of things. Since then I found that I have a lot more time to learn new things that are objective and then that is when science came into play for me

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
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