The Pleistocene/Holocene Impact crater

[Polar]

There were modern humans living during the impact timeline limits presented by the scientific community e.g. approximately between 3 million and 12.000 years ago.

Is there not a gap of understanding regarding what happened to the fauna (and flora) after this factual recent planetary event? And the sudden sea level rise? And the ice? etc...

A real ancient mystery and an alternative history is possible? A recent large impact (47 million nuclear bombs energy) could not have provoked many of the classic characteristics of the Pleistocene/Holocene epoch? The change in sea level (130 m rise from 18.000 to 6.000 years ago), extinctions, etc.

I find it hard to believe that an event of this magnitude was not related to theend of the Pleistocene. An impact crater this large (31 km wide) and this recent in time must mean a lot of things for our previous understanding of that epoch. I don't want to talk about Greenland or Atlantis, Eden or the Ragnarok.

Could we assume that Mega fauna perished by means of rapid ice deposition and froze as a consequence of this event? Mammoths, mastodons, saber-tooth tigers, aurochs, the whole bunch of large mammalia that existed?

[Piney]

@Carnoferox   It starts again. 

6 minutes ago, Polar said:

Could we assume that Mega fauna perished by means of rapid ice deposition and froze as a consequence of this event? Mammoths, mastodons, saber-tooth tigers, aurochs, the whole bunch of large mammalia that existed?

Where is the "mass graves" of megafauna? They exist from the Chesapeake Impact during the Eocene.  Not from this fictional event.

 

9 minutes ago, Polar said:

 And the sudden sea level rise? 

It wasn't so sudden. We tracked it on the East Coast of North America. Read some Herbert Kraft and Anthony Bonofiglio. 

10 minutes ago, Polar said:

Is there not a gap of understanding regarding what happened to the fauna (and flora) after this factual recent planetary event?

There is no gap in the archaeology in North Eastern North America. It slid right from the Paleo to the Early Archaic. Once again. Read some Kraft. 

[cormac mac airt]

The OP wishes to assume an impactor dated to the P/H boundary is a foregone conclusion while showing no evidence that such is true. He fails from the start. 

cormac

[Carnoferox]

 

15 minutes ago, Piney said:

@Carnoferox   It starts again. 

And he repeats the old "flash-frozen" myth! 

27 minutes ago, Polar said:

Could we assume that Mega fauna perished by means of rapid ice deposition and froze as a consequence of this event? Mammoths, mastodons, saber-tooth tigers, aurochs, the whole bunch of large mammalia that existed?

@Polar

You already tried this thread once; what makes you think you can try it again?

[cormac mac airt]

3 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

And he repeats the old "flash-frozen" myth! 

@Polar

You already tried this thread once; what makes you think you can try it again?

Insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.

cormac

Edited November 22, 2018 by cormac mac airt

[Piney]

16 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

And he repeats the old "flash-frozen" myth! 

44 minutes ago, Polar said:

Oh, the science of Readers Digest. 

[kmt_sesh]

Polar, you need to answer my PM or I'll be forced to close this thread, too.

[Piney]

11 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Polar, you need to answer my PM or I'll be forced to close this thread, too.

He needs to go over the the Earth Science subforum and place his ideas on the thread on this I already started. 

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

He needs to go over the the Earth Science subforum and place his ideas on the thread on this I already started. 

While he's at it he might want to learn what the actual timeline of MODERN humans is because contrary to his first post it most certainly wasn't anywhere near 3 million years BP. 

cormac

[Polar]

8 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Polar, you need to answer my PM or I'll be forced to close this thread, too.

What PM? I have not received any, as far as i know. I assume a PM is a personal message. Why would you want to close this thread?

BTW i also tried to write you a message but it said i needed to log in first (and i was actually logged in at the time).

[Polar]

9 hours ago, Piney said:

@Carnoferox   It starts again. 

Where is the "mass graves" of megafauna? They exist from the Chesapeake Impact during the Eocene.  Not from this fictional event.

 

It wasn't so sudden. We tracked it on the East Coast of North America. Read some Herbert Kraft and Anthony Bonofiglio. 

There is no gap in the archaeology in North Eastern North America. It slid right from the Paleo to the Early Archaic. Once again. Read some Kraft. 

The reason i talked about megafauna (mass grave was brought up by you) is that there was a Quaternary extinction event. Actually in the last years of the Pleistocene.

My bad choice of wording, but you are missing the point:

Quote

Late Pleistocene, Holocene and present sea-levels: constraints on future change

Kurt Lambeck Research School of Earth Sciences, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2601, Australia

Late Pleistocene and Holocene sea-levels exhibit considerable temporal and spatial variation around the globe when compared with present-day sea-levels. This is the result of volumetric changes of the ocean produced by the melting of the Pleistocene ice sheets, the response of the crust to these redistributed surface loads, and to tectonic movements of the shore lines of other than glacio-hydro-isostatic origin. 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e768/516ec4aa364529e9a89622181b2b0ce1eb98.pdf

The Quaternary being a fairly short period was the reason why i chose the word sudden, but again there occurred a 130 m rise from 18.000 to 6.000 years ago. Imagine a building of 40 floors (almost a skyscraper) being completely flooded in that time frame?

Regarding your last point, i simply thought that an impact event could bring further understanding regarding that epoch. For instance Herbert Kraft (which i intend to read) was ignorant of this important recent discovery. 

 

 

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, Polar said:

Regarding your last point, i simply thought that an impact event could bring further understanding regarding that epoch. For instance Herbert Kraft (which i intend to read) was ignorant of this important recent discovery. 

I was out to prove the Younger Dryas Impact when the theory was first proposed. We looked in the "Pine Barren Islands" up and down the East Coast which were paleo-environments stripped of their loess down to the Miocene sands by glacial winds. Although we found debris from the Chesapeake impact. We found nothing from the P-H boundry. 

I think this new impact probably dates about 50,000 years ago. About the same as the Barrett impact. Before people were on the East Coast and before the winds stripped the soil deposits creating the Pine Barren areas.  

Also, like I wrote before. Nothing affected the Eastern Clovis Culture. Although they moved to higher areas they slid smoothly into the Early Archaic with several groups starting to move into the North with the mast trees and fauna.  

[Polar]

10 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

The OP wishes to assume an impactor dated to the P/H boundary is a foregone conclusion while showing no evidence that such is true. He fails from the start. 

cormac

 

I don't wish to assume anything:

Quote

If the discovery holds, the Hiawatha Crater could therefore be a tantalizing new piece of evidence for a very controversial idea. Called the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, the notion is that some kind of large impact occurred in northern North America about 10,900 to 12,900 years ago, during the Younger Dryas Ice Age. This impact, the idea goes, caused massive wildfires across much of the continent that in turn led to the extinction of many of the large Ice Age mammals, like mammoths and mastodons, as well as the human Clovis culture.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/11/impact-crater-found-under-hiawatha-glacier-greenland-ice/

[Polar]

7 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

While he's at it he might want to learn what the actual timeline of MODERN humans is because contrary to his first post it most certainly wasn't anywhere near 3 million years BP. 

cormac

I stand corrected, according to wikipedia timeline of human evolution, Humans and Anatomically modern humans date from 2.5 million years ago onward:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

Edited November 22, 2018 by Polar
Citing source

[Polar]

10 hours ago, Piney said:

He needs to go over the the Earth Science subforum and place his ideas on the thread on this I already started. 

Forgive me if i forgot to search for a thread on this subject. The problem is that an earth science forum would not deal with the historical side of the event. I hope the Evil Overlord Mummy Moderator will agree with me...

Edited November 22, 2018 by Polar
repetition

[Duke Wellington]

11 hours ago, Polar said:

There were modern humans living during the impact timeline limits presented by the scientific community e.g. approximately between 3 million and 12.000 years ago.

Is there not a gap of understanding regarding what happened to the fauna (and flora) after this factual recent planetary event? And the sudden sea level rise? And the ice? etc...

A real ancient mystery and an alternative history is possible? A recent large impact (47 million nuclear bombs energy) could not have provoked many of the classic characteristics of the Pleistocene/Holocene epoch? The change in sea level (130 m rise from 18.000 to 6.000 years ago), extinctions, etc.

I find it hard to believe that an event of this magnitude was not related to theend of the Pleistocene. An impact crater this large (31 km wide) and this recent in time must mean a lot of things for our previous understanding of that epoch. I don't want to talk about Greenland or Atlantis, Eden or the Ragnarok.

Could we assume that Mega fauna perished by means of rapid ice deposition and froze as a consequence of this event? Mammoths, mastodons, saber-tooth tigers, aurochs, the whole bunch of large mammalia that existed?

The UK is quite close to Greenland and there have been periods in recent history where our isles have been uninhabited.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain

I quote `Britain was unoccupied by humans between 180,000 and 60,000 years ago` which could relate to an impact. It also says modern humans arrived 40,000 years ago, indicates their occupations were brief and intermittent (which could relate to an impact or impacts) and then became continuously inhabited around 11700 years ago. Due to the size of the crater on Greenland I would expect the UK to have been directly effected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#Extinction

I quote `most woolly mammoth populations disappeared during the late Pleistocene and early Holocene, alongside most of the Pleistocene Megafauna (including the Columbian Mammoth). The extinction formed part of the Quaternary Extinction Event, which began 40,000 years ago and peaked between 14000 and 11500 years ago` which again sounds to me like it could be multiple impacts.

If so we know the Northern Hemisphere (Europe to North America) got peppered by impact fragments. There is also the comet fragment impacts depicted at Gobekli Tepe around the same time of 11000BC, lots of world religions referring to a flood event (fragments landing in the sea?) and Atlantis (again comet fragments landing in the sea?).

With Atlantis Plato clearly says it is opposite the pillars of Hercules, that it is larger then North Africa and Asia combined, and that equals the Americas. Solon said in ancient times it was reachable due to islands in the Atlantic. Have we lost any islands due to mega tsunamis from a comet or comet fragment impacts?

With the image I have circled in red these could have been islands above sea level during the past. Bermuda and the Azores currently have islands above sea level. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by RabidMongoose

[Piney]

24 minutes ago, Polar said:

 

I don't wish to assume anything:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/11/impact-crater-found-under-hiawatha-glacier-greenland-ice/

Quote

This impact, the idea goes, caused massive wildfires across much of the continent that in turn led to the extinction of many of the large Ice Age mammals, like mammoths and mastodons, as well as the human Clovis culture.

Except the Clovis Culture  didn't go extinct on the East Coast. It transitioned right to the Early Archaic.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285753124_The_transition_from_Paleoindian_to_Archaic_in_the_middle_Tennessee_valley

[Essan]

13 hours ago, Polar said:

There were modern humans living during the impact timeline limits presented by the scientific community e.g. approximately between 3 million and 12.000 years ago.

Is there not a gap of understanding regarding what happened to the fauna (and flora) after this factual recent planetary event? And the sudden sea level rise? And the ice? etc...

 

There are no recent, sudden, inexplicable, mass extinctions in the geologic record (the current one - the biggest for several million years - is perfectly well understood   )

So it would appear that the Greenland impactor was simply not big enough (and/or was in exactly the wrong place*) to have much of a global effect, certainly not in the long term.   Not every meteorite is a Chicxulub

* as with large volcanic eruptions, the closer to the equator, the bigger the global impact

I do have a slight niggling wonder though about whether an impact like this might just have caused a nuclear winter in the northern hemisphere and sown the seeds for permanent ice sheets and the start of the modern glacial cycle?   If it turns out to be ~3.5mya ....... 
 

[cormac mac airt]

3 hours ago, Polar said:

I don't wish to assume anything:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/11/impact-crater-found-under-hiawatha-glacier-greenland-ice/

But you are, and a large assumption at that since the Hiawatha Crater HAS NOT BEEN VERIFIABLY DATED. 

3 hours ago, Polar said:

I stand corrected, according to wikipedia timeline of human evolution, Humans and Anatomically modern humans date from 2.5 million years ago onward:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

Your incompetence knows no bounds apparently since Anatomically Modern Humans (AMH) DO NOT date from 2.5 million years as seen by your own link. You don't get to bounce between the two, willy-nilly, and then claim relevance to both. As to Item three in the above it states the following: 

Quote

depending on the classification of the Homo heidelbergensis lineage; 0.8 if Neanderthals are classed as H. sapiens neanderthalensis, or if H. sapiens is defined cladistically from the divergence from H. neanderthalensis, 0.3 based on the available fossil evidence.

The latter bold portion is the currently accepted position of most scientists which means that AMH date from circa 300,000 years BP. 

cormac

Edited November 22, 2018 by cormac mac airt

[Piney]

17 minutes ago, Essan said:

I do have a slight niggling wonder though about whether an impact like this might just have caused a nuclear winter in the northern hemisphere and sown the seeds for permanent ice sheets and the start of the modern glacial cycle?   If it turns out to be ~3.5mya ....... 

WOW! That's a really good possibility. 

[Duke Wellington]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

Except the Clovis Culture  didn't go extinct on the East Coast. It transitioned right to the Early Archaic.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285753124_The_transition_from_Paleoindian_to_Archaic_in_the_middle_Tennessee_valley

You need to check the date of the Clovis Culture appearance. It is 11500BC to 11000BC so it does not contradict the death of mammoth, other species, and plants.

[Essan]

53 minutes ago, Piney said:

WOW! That's a really good possibility. 

It was just something that occurred to me - and there may well be a good reason why it's a daft idea.   Buy we don't actually know why the ice age cycles started when they did .....

[Piney]

33 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You need to check the date of the Clovis Culture appearance. It is 11500BC to 11000BC so it does not contradict the death of mammoth, other species, and plants.

Huh?  Where did these dates come from? 

What plants went extinct? 

[Piney]

35 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You need to check the date of the Clovis Culture appearance. It is 11500BC to 11000BC so it does not contradict the death of mammoth, other species, and plants.

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Clovis_Culture

[Piney]

38 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

You need to check the date of the Clovis Culture appearance. It is 11500BC to 11000BC so it does not contradict the death of mammoth, other species, and plants.

But the Clovis didn't go extinct. They just created new technologies.