God and Universe

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

That is a rather grim assessment

What I said was..... 

Quote

you cannot really trust anyone...only in degrees. 

You can trust people...in degrees...as Hammer said...Trust must be earned....but....here is the catch...you don't really know the person you are trusting to whatever degree you do.  You think you do.  You think you 'know' that you do.  But you don't....you can't...only in degrees...because....

People are human beings....good god...do you have no sense of history Jodi?  Do you have no sense of the world around you?  Do you have no sense of your own persona?  I trust people in degrees....to the degree that it is earned....but at the end of the day...don't judge the book by the cover....

[Jodie.Lynne]

6 minutes ago, joc said:

People are human beings....good god...do you have no sense of history Jodi?  Do you have no sense of the world around you?  Do you have no sense of your own persona?  I trust people in degrees....to the degree that it is earned....but at the end of the day...don't judge the book by the cover....

Do you think that I dole out trust like Halloween candy?

Yes, trust is earned. And it takes me a while to trust people, because I have been burned before, but that does not mean that I automatically assume that people are scum, either. 

Just remember that a person can be trusted, but people often times cannot. That may sound paradoxical, but never blindly trust groups, no matter how benign they may seem, but the individual, once given your trust, should be an all or nothing deal. 

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Yep That prevents me seeing even the simplest object in my mind.  It is one reason i know i do not see imaginary things. I never have images in my mind while i am awake and not under powerful pain killers  This does not prevent me seeing things which are there but it prevents me imagining things which are NOT there.  Of course it also means i cannot construct images of things which are real like an animal or a chair . i don't see ANYTHING in my mind, once my eyes are closed 

This condition has little to any supporting studies as of 1880.

Most of what is known is anecdotal. 

[lightly]

Wow..I can't imagine not being able to imagine images .  I do it nearly all the time.  I can visualize quite complex things..it really helps me create and make or build things.. My mind just naturally drifts into imagery , I've always been a prolific "daydreamer"...and I actually wish I didn't dream so much at night...it's almost exhausting sometimes !

so....Mr. Walker ?     If I asked you to describe a cat...you would be unable to do it? ! ?    Would you have to look at a physical picture of a cat to be able to describe one to me?  You can't    Remember    what anything looks like ?!

Edited January 14, 2019 by lightly

[+joc]

3 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Whatever the hell I feel like.

Where does an 800 pound gorilla  sit?  

Where ever the hell it feels like!

 

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Do you think that I dole out trust like Halloween candy?

Yes, trust is earned. And it takes me a while to trust people, because I have been burned before, but that does not mean that I automatically assume that people are scum, either. 

Just remember that a person can be trusted, but people often times cannot. That may sound paradoxical, but never blindly trust groups, no matter how benign they may seem, but the individual, once given your trust, should be an all or nothing deal. 

No...I no you don't dole out trust like Halloween candy....nor do I assume people are scum.  

A person can be trusted to a degree....blind trust in any individual...never a good thing either.   I don't believe in all or nothing trust....only in degrees...and those have to be earned.

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, lightly said:

Wow..I can't imagine not being able to imagine images .  I do it nearly all the time.  I can visualize quite complex things..it really helps me create and make or build things.. My mind just naturally drifts into imagery , I've always been a prolific "daydreamer"...and I actually wish I didn't dream so much at night...it's almost exhausting sometimes !

so....Mr. Walker ?     If I asked you to describe a cat...you would be unable to do it? ! ?    Would you have to look at a physical picture of a cat to be able to describe one to me?  You can't    Remember    what anything looks like ?!

I am not so sure I would take this latest claim of his to seriously there is little to no research or studies on this-condition. 

And, I won’t be shocked if somehow this works against him for all his other claims such as, his photographic memory, his speed reading abilities, his claims of being able to see in his mind other people’s lost items.  And what an interesting twist he dreams and time travels and claims to have seen the galaxy and beyond in his imagination. Shrugs.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

3 hours ago, joc said:

What I said was..... 

You can trust people...in degrees...as Hammer said...Trust must be earned....but....here is the catch...you don't really know the person you are trusting to whatever degree you do.  You think you do.  You think you 'know' that you do.  But you don't....you can't...only in degrees...because....

People are human beings....good god...do you have no sense of history Jodi?  Do you have no sense of the world around you?  Do you have no sense of your own persona?  I trust people in degrees....to the degree that it is earned....but at the end of the day...don't judge the book by the cover....

I would add that in certain situations trust is out of the question. For example, me walking to my car at nite, alone. 

I have those I trust implicitly but the list is short. Others I trust  in varying degrees, if  you want my trust you have to earn it and I think it should be the same for me. 

If a person isn’t willing to invest in earning trust I would question why.

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Sherapy

[+joc]

5 hours ago, Dejarma said:

5 hours ago, third_eye said:

Trust is that sturdy hardy crust of an old moldy cake ... you want it to be there but you wouldn't want to test it too much and risk seeing what's really underneath it all

~

what? you've lost me there

It is an interesting way of saying that you want to be able to trust people...you want that trust to be there...but if you trust someone too much...you might see a lot of things about them you really didn't need to or want to.

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I would add that in certain situations trust is out of the question. For example, me walking to my car at nite, alone. 

I have those I trust implicitly but the list is short. Others I trust  in varying degrees, of you want my first you have to earn it? 

 

I want to trust people...even people very, very close...and to some degree...I do...but I don't trust anyone implicitly....Implicit trust cant really be earned imo...

I just adhere to lyrics from a Pink Floyd song....and keep in mind that...to some degree we are all primitive animals....

You've got to be trusted by the people that you lie to so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to stick the knife in....

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, joc said:

It is an interesting way of saying that you want to be able to trust people...you want that trust to be there...but if you trust someone too much...you might see a lot of things about them you really didn't need to or want to.

you can see that if you only trust them a little bit

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, joc said:

I want to trust people...even people very, very close...and to some degree...I do...but I don't trust anyone implicitly....Implicit trust cant really be earned imo...

I just adhere to lyrics from a Pink Floyd song....and keep in mind that...to some degree we are all primitive animals....

You've got to be trusted by the people that you lie to so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to stick the knife in....

I trust my husband and kids implicitly, not blindly or lacking in sense, but quite a bit. 

[SHaYap]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No I am presenting multiple academic findings tha t show the same thing.  If you  don't want to believe them that  is your problem.  (and your biased and emotive  reasons for not trusting them  are amusing) 

I am saying that in recent years muslims have been treated with more distrust.

However it is not showing up  (in studies or surveys)  that people find them less honest or trust worthy. In a wy their rigid application of faithmakes them more predictable and more honest  

Ad yes i put more trust in academic research and findings than in gut reactions and personable  beliefs 

No some of these studies come from 2018 and still show that we trust believers, including Muslims, more than we do non believers.

this overrides a gut perception that people are less trusting of muslims these days  

To your last point articles of faith such as clothes or icons are an indicator of belief Just a s one would think a priest less lilely to shop steal or a person wearing a cross, one tends to think of all relgious people as more honest.  This thinking is cognitively and socially evolved over thousands of years 

This does not make it so.

The argument arose about perception, and how people SEE others,  not how the y actually are.

 

Go get some sleep , I woke up at 5am and it seems you were here all through the night and did not sleep at all, that can't be good for you so soon after such a major surgery to correct a faulty heart valve, even with your fantastical powers of recovery, which I had never even considered to be true at all.

You carry on with your tales , it is quite entertaining , even if you 'the y' offers you ample opportunities to claim that 'they' is not 'the y' hence is not a lie

~

[Dejarma]

3 minutes ago, joc said:

.but I don't trust anyone implicitly.

the people i trust, i trust implicitly- with my life

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I trust my husband and kids implicitly, not blindly or lacking in sense, but quite a bit. 

As do I...quite a bit...but not...implicitly...in all of it's wonderful synonyms:  

completely, absolutely, totally, wholeheartedly, utterly, unconditionally, unreservedly, without reservation, without reserve, without qualification, one hundred percent;

Degrees...some more than others...no one completely...why?  Because I know they are human....

[+joc]

4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

the people i trust, i trust implicitly- with my life

I don't

[SHaYap]

7 minutes ago, joc said:

It is an interesting way of saying that you want to be able to trust people...you want that trust to be there...but if you trust someone too much...you might see a lot of things about them you really didn't need to or want to.

The old and ancient Chinese way of looking at it is, you trust or you do not trust, kinda like you love or you do not love, you do or you do not do.

If you do but merely try, you will not know if it was successful because you were there to do it or because you did it successfully. 

So to trust, you must trust to know, if you distrust because there was no trust , you will never know if it was due to you not trusting or it was because of a lack trustworthiness on the part of whom you chose to trust.

Trust is a fruition of relationships, it is not something that can be produced or made for some purpose or desire,

' Never make small use of big talent, or big use of small talent '

~

[Dejarma]

Just now, joc said:

I don't

your car could course you a problem at any time where you could crash & die but i bet you don't even think about= trust?

folk send their child off to football training or karate lessons with a stranger= but i bet you wouldn't leave your car with a stranger= trust?

if you know you can trust someone then it's job done.. the fact that you can't= i don't know what to say to that... cheers

[Habitat]

Trust, but verify.

[+joc]

4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

your car could course you a problem at any time where you could crash & die but i bet you don't even think about= trust?

folk send their child off to football training or karate lessons with a stranger= but i bet you wouldn't leave your car with a stranger= trust?

if you know you can trust someone then it's job done.. the fact that you can't= i don't know what to say to that... cheers

I think about the possibility of dying on the road...all the time...because I am on the road a lot.  I don't trust anyone on the road and I don't trust my vehicle.  A blow out at 80 isn't pretty.

I never sent my kid off with anyone...and I don't let people borrow my stuff.

I said I trust people in degrees...never implicitly...never.

[Habitat]

The silly them about this discussion is the lack of clarity about what "trust" means. Trust to do / not do what, exactly ?  

[SHaYap]

3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

The silly them about this discussion is the lack of clarity about what "trust" means. Trust to do / not do what, exactly ?  

That made me question the 'Science' behind the study, what do they mean by 'controlled' the Atheist part or the religious part ? Hoe do they decide the Science of what defines Religious people and Atheists ?

I am not University educated and even I can see  the problematic connotations in presenting that as Scientific

~

[danydandan]

8 hours ago, Habitat said:

Not being a popular culture thrall, I have no answers for those two questions, or even have any inkling of why you ask ! And as for "You should question them afterwards, as objectively as possible. ", it is routine for people to reflect on happenings in their lives, but it is also common for people to find that continually second-guessing themselves does not necessarily improve the strike rate of reaching the "right" conclusion. The initial impression is often the right one, and for people to assume their preconceptions trump your direct observation, is little more than arrogance.

They are just examples of how people claim to be absolutely sure of something, including the Actor who qouted the line, and still be incorrect. It's usually brought up as an example of the Mandela effect. I'm sure you have heard the line "Luke....... I am your father"? Well the line is just "I am your father." There are people who have watched the movie 50 times and claim it's the aforementioned line and that includes James Earl Jones. 

I disagree, I think assuming you are correct all the time is the epitome of arrogance. Obviously second guessing what you perceive is redundant, but anomalies should be questioned. Your perception is constructed by your brain, based on sensory input, past memories that can (and often are) personalised, confabulated, distorted, contaminated (Mandela effect) and even fused with other memories. These things can happen each time you bring up a specific memory, so your recollection of an event can literally change each time you bring it up.Your perception is biased to your memories and your memories are biased to your perception. So not questioning yourself sometimes is stupid, and assuming your perception and memories are infallible is arrogance and ignorance. And everyone person is effected by this. Not mention our flaws in logic and cognitive biases. 

[danydandan]

44 minutes ago, third_eye said:

That made me question the 'Science' behind the study, what do they mean by 'controlled' the Atheist part or the religious part ? Hoe do they decide the Science of what defines Religious people and Atheists ?

I am not University educated and even I can see  the problematic connotations in presenting that as Scientific

~

Where is this study is there a link? I can't find it and I've read back a number of pages to where MrWalker claimed a study was conducted. 

Trust is a funny thing. It's probably the only thing us humans can say is Relative, Situational and Absolute. 

[Reignite]

7 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Whatever the hell I feel like.

Do you consider yourself rude or just plain annoying?