Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Probe

God and Universe

1,208 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

third_eye
1 hour ago, Coil said:

In my post number 41 a link read the Hinduism section and absorb instead of immediately showing your incompetence.

That's what I thought, just to let you know that that's too literal a read on some poetic license ...
 

Quote

 

~

The worlds, Arjuna!- even Brahma's world-
Roll back again from Death to Life's unrest;
But they, O Kunti's Son! that reach to Me,
Taste birth no more. If ye know Brahma's Day
Which is a thousand Yugas; if ye know
The thousand Yugas making Brahma's Night,
Then know ye Day and Night as He doth know!
When that vast Dawn doth break, th' Invisible
Is brought anew into the Visible;
When that deep Night doth darken, all which is
Fades back again to Him Who sent it forth;
Yea! this vast company of living things-
Again and yet again produced- expires
At Brahma's Nightfall; and, at Brahma's Dawn,
Riseth, without its will, to life new-born.
But- higher, deeper, innermost- abides
Another Life, not like the life of sense,
Escaping sight, unchanging. This endures
When all created things have passed away;
This is that Life named the Unmanifest,
The Infinite! the All! the Uttermost.
Thither arriving none return. That Life
Is Mine, and I am there! And, Prince! by faith
Which wanders not, there is a way to come
Thither. I, the PURUSHA, I Who spread
The Universe around me- in Whom dwell
All living Things- may so be reached and seen!

    (Hindu, Bhagavad Gita (Edwin Arnold tr))

~

 

~

Just to put things into perspective ...
 

Quote

 

~

All the floating mass of tales, traditions, legends, and myths, for which ancient India was famous, found a shelter under the expanding wings of this wonderful Epic; and as Krishna-worship became the prevailing religion of India after the decay of Buddhism, the old Epic caught the complexion of the times, and Krishna-cult is its dominating religious idea in its present shape. It is thus that the work went on growing for a thousand years after it was first compiled and put together in the form of an Epic; until the crystal rill of the Epic itself was all but lost in an unending morass of religious and didactic episodes, legends, tales, and traditions.

    (Hindu, Mababharata (R. Dutt,  abridged tr))

~

FOURTH KHANDA.

1. This then becomes perfect as a thousand of Brihati verses. Its consonants form its body, its voice (vowels) the Soul, its sibilants the air of the breath.

2. He who knew this became Vasishtha, he took this name from thence.

3. Indra verily declared this to Visvamitra, and Indra verily declared this to Bharadvaga. Therefore Indra is invoked by him as a friend.

4. This becomes perfect as a thousand of Brihati verses, and of that hymn perfect with a thousand Brihati verses, there are 36,000 syllables. So many are also the thousands of days of a hundred years (36,000). With the consonants they fill the nights, with the vowels the days.

5. This becomes perfect as a thousand of Brihati verses. He who knows this, after this thousand of Brihatis thus accomplished, becomes full of knowledge, full of the gods, full of Brahman, full of the immortal, and then goes also to the gods.

6. What I am (the worshipper), that is he (sun); what he is, that am I.

7. This has been said by a Rishi (Rv. I, 115, I): 'The sun is the self of all that moves and rests.'

8. Let him look to that, let him look to that!

    (Upanishads vol. 1, Aitareya-Aranyaka Part 2)

~

SECOND ADHYAYA

FIRST KHANDA.

1. Sthavira Sakalya said that breath is the beam, and as the other beams rest on the house-beam, thus the eye, the ear, the mind, the speech, the senses, the body, the whole self rests on this breath.

2. Of that self the breathing is like the sibilants, the bones like the mutes, the marrow like the vowels, and the fourth part, flesh, blood, and the rest, like the semivowels, - so said Hrasva Mandukeya.

3. To us it was said to be a triad only.

4. Of that triad, viz. bones, marrow, and joints, there are 360 (parts) on this side (the right), and 360 on that side (the left). They make 720 together, and 720 are the days and nights of the year. Thus that self which consists of sight, hearing, metre, mind, and speech is like unto the days.

5. He who thus knows this self, which consists of sight, hearing, metre, mind, and speech, as like unto the days, obtains union, likeness, or nearness with the days, has sons and cattle, and lives his full age.

~

SECOND KHANDA.

1. Next comes Kauntharavya:

2. There are 360 syllables (vowels), 360 sibilants (consonants), 360 groups.

3. What we called syllables are the days, what we called sibilants are the nights, what we called groups are the junctions of days and nights. So far with regard to the gods (the days).

4. Now with regard to the body. The syllables which we explained mythologically, are physiologically the bones; the sibilants which we explained mythologically, are physiologically the marrow.

5. Marrow is the real breath (life), for marrow is seed, and without breath (life) seed is not sown. Or when it is sown without breath (life), it will decay, it will not grow.

6. The groups which we explained mythologically, are physiologically the joints.

7. Of that triad, viz. bones, marrow, and joints, there are 540 (parts) on this side (the right), and 540 on that side (the left). They make1080 together, and 1080 are the rays of the sun. They make the Brihatt verses and the day (of the Mahavrata).

8. Thus that self which consists of sight, hearing, metre, mind, and speech is like unto the syllables.

9. He who knows this self which consists of sight, hearing, metre, mind, and speech, as like unto syllables, obtains union, likeness, or nearness with the syllables, has sons and cattle, and lives his full age.

~

60. Then that great sage Bhrigu, being thus addressed by Manu, spoke, pleased in his heart, to all the sages, 'Listen!'

61. Six other high-minded, very powerful Manus, who belong to the race of this Manu, the descendant of the Self-existent (Svayambhu), and who have severally produced created beings,

62. (Are) Svarokisha, Auttami, Tamasa, Raivata, Kakshusha, possessing great lustre, and the son of Vivasvat.

63. These seven very glorious Manus, the first among whom is Svayambhuva, produced and protected this whole movable and immovable (creation), each during the period (allotted to him).

64. Eighteen nimeshas (twinklings of the eye, are one kashtha), thirty kashthas one kala, thirty kalas one muhurta, and as many (muhurtas) one day and night.

65. The sun divides days and nights, both human and divine, the night (being intended) for the repose of created beings and the day for exertion.

66. A month is a day and a night of the manes, but the division is according to fortnights. The dark (fortnight) is their day for active exertion, the bright (fortnight) their night for sleep.

67. A year is a day and a night of the gods; their division is (as follows): the half year during which the sun progresses to the north will be the day, that during which it goes southwards the night.

68. But hear now the brief (description of) the duration of a night and a day of Brahman and of the several ages (of the world, yuga) according to their order.

69. They declare that the Krita age (consists of) four thousand years (of the gods); the twilight preceding it consists of as many hundreds, and the twilight following it of the same number.

70. In the other three ages with their twilights preceding and following, the thousands and hundreds are diminished by one (in each).

71. These twelve thousand (years) which thus have been just mentioned as the total of four (human) ages, are called one age of the gods.

72. But know that the sum of one thousand ages of the gods (makes) one day of Brahman, and that his night has the same length.

73. Those (only, who) know that the holy day of Brahman, indeed, ends after (the completion of) one thousand ages (of the gods) and that his night lasts as long, (are really) men acquainted with (the length of) days and nights.

74. At the end of that day and night he who was asleep, awakes and, after awaking, creates mind, which is both real and unreal.

75. Mind, impelled by (Brahman's) desire to create, performs the work of creation by modifying itself, thence ether is produced; they declare that sound is the quality of the latter.

76. But from ether, modifying itself, springs the pure, powerful wind, the vehicle of all perfumes; that is held to possess the quality of touch.

77. Next from wind modifying itself, proceeds the brilliant light, which illuminates and dispels darkness; that is declared to possess the quality of colour;

78. And from light, modifying itself, (is produced) water, possessing the quality of taste, from water earth which has the quality of smell; such is the creation in the beginning.

79. The before-mentioned age of the gods, (or) twelve thousand (of their years), being multiplied by seventy-one, (constitutes what) is here named the period of a Manu (Manvantara).

80. The Manvantaras, the creations and destructions (of the world, are) numberless; sporting, as it were, Brahman repeats this again and again.

81. In the Krita age Dharma is four-footed and entire, and (so is) Truth; nor does any gain accrue to men by unrighteousness.

82. In the other (three ages), by reason of (unjust) gains (agama), Dharma is deprived successively of one foot, and through (the prevalence of) theft, falsehood, and fraud the merit (gained by men) is diminished by one fourth (in each).

83. (Men are) free from disease, accomplish all their aims, and live four hundred years in the Krita age, but in the Treta and (in each of) the succeeding (ages) their life is lessened by one quarter.

84. The life of mortals, mentioned in the Veda, the desired results of sacrificial rites and the (supernatural) power of embodied (spirits) are fruits proportioned among men according to (the character of) the age.

85. One set of duties (is prescribed) for men in the Krita age, different ones in the Treta and in the Dvapara, and (again) another (set) in the Kali, in a proportion as (those) ages decrease in length.

    (Hindu, Laws of Manu)

~

 

 

~

If you want to proselytize about Hinduism it be better if you go straight to the Scriptures instead of a dictionary ...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coil
25 minutes ago, third_eye said:

If you want to proselytize about Hinduism it be better if you go straight to the Scriptures instead of a dictionary ...

I follow the rules of the forum(  Post content, 2c -"provide a source link,do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages") made an excerpt from the link, indicated source. If other religions had accurate data on the life of the universe, it would be possible to cite them, but there are none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
third_eye
5 minutes ago, Coil said:

I follow the rules of the forum(  Post content, 2c -"provide a source link,do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages") made an excerpt from the link, indicated source. If other religions had accurate data on the life of the universe, it would be possible to cite them, but there are none.

None that you are aware of , due in no small part , to your incompetence ... your wiki link was based on  ...

A Dictionary of Hinduism - Google Search

~

Edited by third_eye
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
6 hours ago, XenoFish said:

To ask oneself, "does the belief benefit me in a constructive way?" is a much better question than what I've seen. No, the questions are about what is objective. Rather than what they should be focused on, the subjective. 

We're not that kind of animal. We delight in nonsensical things, whimsical fabrications and mental constructs. We create elaborate rituals and erotic/romantic fantasies around the simple act of breeding. Most people value second hand emotions above anything else.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

We're not that kind of animal. We delight in nonsensical things, whimsical fabrications and mental constructs. We create elaborate rituals and erotic/romantic fantasies around the simple act of breeding. Most people value second hand emotions above anything else.

True. I just don't get it though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

True. I just don't get it though. 

As a general rule, there are always exceptions. I don't go to church anymore, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noteverythingisaconspiracy
1 hour ago, Coil said:

I follow the rules of the forum(  Post content, 2c -"provide a source link,do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages") made an excerpt from the link, indicated source. If other religions had accurate data on the life of the universe, it would be possible to cite them, but there are none.

Actually you have just breached the rules by quoting them. I suggest you read the rules before claiming that you are following them. :whistle:

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
28 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

As a general rule, there are always exceptions. I don't go to church anymore, either.

I can't wrap my mind around people. We are a species born from chaos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I can't wrap my mind around people. We are a species born from chaos.

We are an evolutionary whim, manifested in flesh. If we are spirit, as well, then, for some reason we're suppose to experience this aspect of existence. I'd be lying if I said I have vaguest idea why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

We are an evolutionary whim, manifested in flesh. If we are spirit, as well, then, for some reason we're suppose to experience this aspect of existence. I'd be lying if I said I have vaguest idea why.

I don't see the point of asking why. It's a question that can not be answered. At most its a distraction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I don't see the point of asking why. It's a question that can not be answered. At most its a distraction.

Yet that is what we are, a species that questions it's own existence.

Edited by Hammerclaw
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StarMountainKid
16 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yet that is what we are, a species that questions it's own existence.

Which I think is good, even though maybe an act of futility. I also think it futile when we come to some definite conclusion for ourselves. 

All we can know is what we perceive, which is limited by our incomplete perception.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coil
23 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

We are an evolutionary whim, manifested in flesh. If we are spirit, as well, then, for some reason we're suppose to experience this aspect of existence. I'd be lying if I said I have vaguest idea why.

We lived in the spirit only in order to conquer matter, we must put on it and become biological beings. But in the process of evolution, matter became so strong that it led to a loss of control by consciousness over it, therefore death and disease exist as the impossibility of our consciousness to order the body to do what we want.

And the eternal spirit from above supports our mortal life and binds lives and experiences so that we in evolution (despite dying) still get out of slavery of matter and become masters of ourselves and matter.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ogbin
34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yet that is what we are, a species that questions it's own existence.

Self awareness is what separates us from other of life. The fact that we are self aware and can create leads me to believe that we and everything that we know of has been created. An object in a box did not create its self nor did it create the box that it's in.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
15 minutes ago, Ogbin said:

Self awareness is what separates us from other of life. The fact that we are self aware and can create leads me to believe that we and everything that we know of has been created. An object in a box did not create its self nor did it create the box that it's in.

We are not the only species that is self-aware. We are the only one that asks, why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XenoFish
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yet that is what we are, a species that questions it's own existence.

Yes. But wouldn't it be more effective to ask of ourselves what we will do with our existence? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammerclaw
3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Yes. But wouldn't it be more effective to ask of ourselves what we will do with our existence? 

We do what people have always done, live, breed and die. Somewhere between our first and last breath, we find meaning or do not. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probe
17 hours ago, danydandan said:

God. He created the universe obviously. So the answer is God!

The premise of my question is, God exists but he/she may or may not be the creator of the universe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probe
17 hours ago, danydandan said:

Fair enough.

I see the OP probably won't be back anyway so this thread is going nowhere fast. 

But for anyone interested in the proof I was thinking of:

If the universe does not exist, that means everything does not exist, including rules. Without rules, nothing couldn’t exist. Therefore the universe could not be nothing because nothing couldn't exist.

What rules?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probe
13 hours ago, joc said:

If Aliens created the universe...who created the Aliens?  God!  If God created the universe who created God?  The Universe.

If the Universe created itself...who created the Universe?   The Universe

How could the Universe create itself?  That is the question only a few actually have a desire to ask and answer.

I think the popular assertion is, God's existence does not have to be caused by anything and laws of physics do not apply to God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Noteverythingisaconspiracy
30 minutes ago, Probe said:

I think the popular assertion is, God's existence does not have to be caused by anything and laws of physics do not apply to God.

How can we ever have a serious discussion about anything related to the origin of the universe, if you can just handwave everything by saying that the laws of physics doesn't apply to god ?

Unless you can prove that assertion it just seem like a cop out to me.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Probe
2 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

How can we ever have a serious discussion about anything related to the origin of the universe, if you can just handwave everything by saying that the laws of physics doesn't apply to god ?

Unless you can prove that assertion it just seem like a cop out to me.

The purpose of my question is to get opinions of others about the topic. I don't know if a God exists but I don't want to dismiss the possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guyver
21 hours ago, Probe said:


Did God or the Universe come first?

 

Which universe?

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guyver
21 hours ago, Probe said:


Did God or the Universe come first?

 

If you mean this universe, then what ever caused it came first.  If that was God, then God came first.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guyver
19 hours ago, danydandan said:

Fair enough.

I see the OP probably won't be back anyway so this thread is going nowhere fast. 

But for anyone interested in the proof I was thinking of:

If the universe does not exist, that means everything does not exist, including rules. Without rules, nothing couldn’t exist. Therefore the universe could not be nothing because nothing couldn't exist.

Not bad.  I don’t see any fault in your logic because this universe works by rules and we have no knowledge to indicate a universe without rules could even exist.

My question would be, if a universe without rules could exist, would it be able to produce a universe that operates by rules?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.