God and Universe

[Guyver]

If God is a timeless being responsible for the existence of this universe, then He/She/It could be responsible for the existence of all universes simultaneously.

If physics, or rather Nature is responsible for this universe then there is a problem.  The problem is that a causal chain cannot be of infinite length, so the initial cause of the universe cannot logically exist.

[Guyver]

It’s a real problem, if one wishes to explain things I mean, just as the existence of evil is difficult to understand if God exists.

[danydandan]

4 hours ago, Probe said:

What rules?

Rules, laws, theories whatever you want to call the movement of nature.

[danydandan]

2 hours ago, Guyver said:

If God is a timeless being responsible for the existence of this universe, then He/She/It could be responsible for the existence of all universes simultaneously.

If physics, or rather Nature is responsible for this universe then there is a problem.  The problem is that a causal chain cannot be of infinite length, so the initial cause of the universe cannot logically exist.

The more I read of The Conformal Cycllic Cosmological model of Penrose the more I'm in agreement with it. 

Being a Penrose hypothesis it's extremely mathematically heavy but it's an important hypothesis as it could explain why the universe is infinite. It's also suggests no need for a creator God. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by danydandan

[danydandan]

5 hours ago, Probe said:

The premise of my question is, God exists but he/she may or may not be the creator of the universe.

Then perhaps you could write exactly what you are talking, rather than a four or five word question open to multiple interpretations?

 

[Coil]

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

It’s a real problem, if one wishes to explain things I mean, just as the existence of evil is difficult to understand if God exists.

What is the difficulty? God gave the first angels great powers and abilities to create and they think they can do without regard to God's plan, so they quickly turned into demons because God had the most correct development plan. Well, there is still a moment that matter is the opposite aspect of spirit so creating in matter the first angels fell into error because in matter it is very difficult to maintain the unity and harmony of all elements and personalities among themselves, therefore material beings came to selfishness, oppositions, lost immortality and found everything that is contrary to the spirit.
Nature, too, has fallen, but it remembers the lost and leads evolution slowly but surely.

[SHaYap]

Heed the words of Mephistopheles
 

Quote

 

“What matters creative endless toil, When, at a snatch, oblivion ends the coil?”.

 

• ― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust: Der Tragödie erster und zweiter Teil. Urfaust

~

[+joc]

16 hours ago, Guyver said:

Which universe?

Any Universe genius!

[+joc]

18 hours ago, Probe said:

I think the popular assertion is, God's existence does not have to be caused by anything and laws of physics do not apply to God.

I think the popular assertion is incredibly stupid!

Besides all that it really doesn't matter whether there's a God or not... I now to no King but Arthur!

Edited November 27, 2018 by joc

[+Liquid Gardens]

17 hours ago, Guyver said:

 The problem is that a causal chain cannot be of infinite length

I'm not sure about that.  "A causes B, B causes C, C causes A" is of potentially infinite length, although it is circular obviously.

[Mr Walker]

On 26/11/2018 at 10:38 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

We can't say for sure how old religion is, hence why I wrote "probably", but we have evidence of humans being buried with small sculptures from around 40,000 years ago. That could indicate some form of religious practice. 

Organised religion is dated to the neolithic period, around 10000 years ago. Evidences of spiritual thought and behaviour in humans, such as ritual burials, goes back as far as 100000 years. 

[Mr Walker]

On 27/11/2018 at 1:47 AM, XenoFish said:

I honestly think this is pointless. This is needless speculation, any answer is an assumption. Nothing more than an exercise in futility. 

There are many faculties and disciplines who would argue that  it is important to examine human behaviours left in artefacts, because the behaviour will demonstrate the level of abstract, symbolic, and conceptual thinking of the people who created the artefacts  Thus a fertility figurine from 10000 to 40000 years ago shows a certain awareness by the sculptor and a certain intent  in making the figurine  We can also use current human psychology and cognitive processes to analyse the probable thinking of the makers.

This is also done academically with cave paintings, especially abstract forms which show imagination and understanding/awareness of links between reality and the human mind, such as pictures of a hunt  

[Mr Walker]

On 27/11/2018 at 4:31 AM, XenoFish said:

I don't see the point of asking why. It's a question that can not be answered. At most its a distraction.

No it is what defines us as humans.

Ie the abilty and desire to ask such questions and to seek answers.

The correct answer is, of course,  ................ "Because"  

[Mr Walker]

On 27/11/2018 at 5:47 AM, XenoFish said:

Yes. But wouldn't it be more effective to ask of ourselves what we will do with our existence? 

It s easier to answer that question once you have worked out your purpose /reason for existing.

eg If you answer, "My purpose is to serve others. "  you will choose a different path in life than if you  answer, " My purpose is  to rule the world'" Or, "My purpose /reason for existence  is to enjoy life and have fun"  

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, third_eye said:

Heed the words of Mephistopheles
 

• ― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust: Der Tragödie erster und zweiter Teil. Urfaust

~

"The  evil  that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones "

 

In reality our lives have an impact on the world for a long time.   What we do MATTERS, not just during our life but for a long long time. 

eg in saving one person's life you may save hundreds yet unborn, and ultimately alter the world's history.

By taking one life, you can doom hundreds as yet unborn, and also alter the future. 

[psyche101]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:59 PM, Probe said:

The purpose of my question is to get opinions of others about the topic. I don't know if a God exists but I don't want to dismiss the possibility.

Why bother with opinions over science and knowledge then? Opinions are like armpits, everyone has a couple at least and they aren't all that attractive. 

[SHaYap]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Opinions are like armpits, everyone has a couple at least and they aren't all that attractive. 

Well ... that do depends on the circumstances of the who and when but I'm not going to go into the splitting of hairs here ...

~

[Ogbin]

On 11/26/2018 at 11:04 AM, Hammerclaw said:

We are not the only species that is self-aware. We are the only one that asks, why?

 

In order to be able to question one’s existence you need to have the framework of Time.

And it is the Time that we know as: Past, Present and Future.

And in order to have the framework of Past, Present, and Future you need to have what we call ‘Memory’.

And in order to have Memory you need to have ‘Mind’. (This is not about brain).

This is about an awareness center where we conceptualize, where we have mental images that resurface as projected memory, we call these ideas. It’s where we have pressure to come up with mental solutions we call answers to doubts. It’s about the pressure to explain things that we recorded in our memory, in order to understand the confusion. It’s where we form our opinions, all of these things are mechanisms of Mind.

No animal, plant, insect or any life form you can imagine other than humanoids, is endowed with Mind. Hence they have no concept of Time as we know it. Not possible! Not possible for them to ponder any existence because for them, there is no future or past, there is only ‘Now’.

All other explanations that deviate towards that they can ponder their own existence are merely projected ‘humanism’ unto these living creatures, by human beings observing them.

*David Roy Duenias

 

 

[Hartmut]

All  the God  / Universe discussions  are is irrelevant, or as 'Xeno Fish' rightly said pointless.
The only question that needs answering is :
How could "EXISTENCE" came into being ? !
And it matters not in what form, or mental construct  'Existence' came from or  is.
Fact is  "Existence" exists - when its Existence - or Non-Existence  - should both
not be a possibility at all.
Fact is - Our Limited Human Brain can not understand or explain "Existence".
To put any Inexplicable Explanation in the God, or into any other 'Supernatural' box,  
merely shows up  our intellectual  restriction.

 

[XenoFish]

Even the question of why we exist is pointless. Trying to figure out how life came to be is a noble quest, but why it happened isn't important. We exist, we have life, but do we live? 

Of course this is more philosophical. 

[kartikg]

Is there any point in discussing these topics?

[Probe]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:41 AM, kartikg said:

Is there any point in discussing these topics?

Speculative reason

Edited December 11, 2018 by Probe

[freetoroam]

On 26/11/2018 at 12:08 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

We can't say for sure how old religion is, hence why I wrote "probably", but we have evidence of humans being buried with small sculptures from around 40,000 years ago. That could indicate some form of religious practice. 

Tis true, but it does not mean they believed in a god. It is a sign they respected their dead. You do not have to be religious to do that.

If we go back to the paintings of the cave men, they were not adorned with pictures of gods.

 

[Podo]

This is a rigged question; if someone says "the universe," it implies that they accept that a god came second, further implying an acceptance of a deity. The universe came first. We're still waiting on god, however.

[Suprnova]

Obviously only 1 of these things have been proven to exist, so the thing that is proven, the universe, and until anything religious based is proven, its not really debatable.