God and Universe

[+Sherapy]

24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Even atheists trust believers more than other atheists and it doesn't matter what belief you  have People of one belief trust those of another, more than they trust atheists 

Your point about Muslims would seem to be true a least anecdotally  but it hasn't shown up in surveys or testing as yet.

MAybe we still see them as honest god fearing people despite a propensity to violence and terrorism

For example, many westerners would trust a muslim woman, dressed in a hijab,  not to shop steal, more than they would  a western woman in revealing clothes,  even though the former would have more chance of concealing stolen items. 

Maybe that is because the hijab is a declaration  of a strict morality,  while the western woman gives no open declaration of her own beliefs or moralities 

This doesn't make any sense. 

How can one be honest god fearing yet be prone to violence and terrorism? 

How does the way a woman dress reveal whether she would steal or not? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Sherapy]

47 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Even atheists trust believers more than other atheists and it doesn't matter what belief you  have People of one belief trust those of another, more than they trust atheists 

Your point about Muslims would seem to be true a least anecdotally  but it hasn't shown up in surveys or testing as yet.

MAybe we still see them as honest god fearing people despite a propensity to violence and terrorism

For example, many westerners would trust a muslim woman, dressed in a hijab,  not to shop steal, more than they would  a western woman in revealing clothes,  even though the former would have more chance of concealing stolen items. 

Maybe that is because the hijab is a declaration  of a strict morality,  while the western woman gives no open declaration of her own beliefs or moralities 

This doesn't make any sense. 

How can one be honest god fearing yet be prone to violence and terrorism? 

How does the way a woman dress reveal whether she would steal or not? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jmccr8]

26 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Even atheists trust believers more than other atheists and it doesn't matter what belief you  have People of one belief trust those of another, more than they trust atheists 

Hi Walker

I am neither, nor is anyone's religious outlook a factor in who I trust any more than where they are from or what color they are. Trust is built in interaction and there are different levels on which we interact, and for me, privilege and responsibility are the parameters that that trust is given and how one performs determines what level of interaction there will be. Not all that complex really.

jmccr8

[Jodie.Lynne]

19 minutes ago, joc said:

and at the end of the day, humans cannot be trusted. 

That is a rather grim assessment, and I am sorry for the life experiences that led you to that conclusion.

I have known people that I would (and have) trusted not only with my life, but the lives of my loved ones.

I have also known people that I wouldn't trust to remember to feed the cat.

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Jodie.Lynne

[+Sherapy]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

I am neither, nor is anyone's religious outlook a factor in who I trust any more than where they are from or what color they are. Trust is built in interaction and there are different levels on which we interact, and for me, privilege and responsibility are the parameters that that trust is given and how one performs determines what level of interaction there will be. Not all that complex really.

jmccr8

Indeed, trust is a cumulative interaction between word and deed and in my world is earned over time and vice versa. 

Ones relgious beliefs or lack there of plays no part in the assessment.

It just works out that the folks I trust with my life are non relgious, yet, this really has no bearing on anything. 

[+Hammerclaw]

25 minutes ago, joc said:

 

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that you cannot really trust anyone...only in degrees.  Pedophiles hide behind Pastoral Robes and Teaching Certificates...Men of the church hide affairs...as well as women of the church...High Moral Politicians hide behind powerful committees ...morality is a myth...at the end of the day, we are all human, and at the end of the day, humans cannot be trusted. 

When it comes to people I trust my heart; in relationships it is judge, jury and executioner, to continue or to terminate. Friendship may be freely given, but trust must be earned. One must acknowledge and accept responsibility for one's own imperfections, realizing others are equally imperfect. Sunshine and rain are our lot in life, we endure the chill and damp of incessant rain and are burnt by the unremitting sun, yet from both life and hope spring eternal.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Hammerclaw

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, trust is a cumulative interaction between word and deed and in my world is earned over time and vice versa. 

Ones relgious beliefs or lack there of plays no part in the assessment.

It just works out that the folks I trust with my life are non relgious, yet, this really has no bearing on anything. 

Hi Sherapy

There is nobody I trust with me more than I and I keep an eye on myself too.

jmccr8

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

There is nobody I trust with me more than I and I keep an eye on myself too.

jmccr8

I never tell myself what I'm doing. The less I know about what I'm up to, the better. 

[jmccr8]

Just now, Jodie.Lynne said:

I never tell myself what I'm doing. The less I know about what I'm up to, the better. 

Hi Jodie

Good plan loose lips sink ships, gotcha.

jmccr8

[Dejarma]

32 minutes ago, joc said:

 

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that you cannot really trust anyone...only in degrees.  Pedophiles hide behind Pastoral Robes and Teaching Certificates...Men of the church hide affairs...as well as women of the church...High Moral Politicians hide behind powerful committees ...morality is a myth...at the end of the day, we are all human, and at the end of the day, humans cannot be trusted. 

 

what do you mean by <humans cannot be trusted.> exactly? would you trust a human to perform an operation on yourself or a loved one?

Edited January 13, 2019 by Dejarma

[SHaYap]

Trust is that sturdy hardy crust of an old moldy cake ... you want it to be there but you wouldn't want to test it too much and risk seeing what's really underneath it all

~

[Dejarma]

Just now, third_eye said:

Trust is that sturdy hardy crust of an old moldy cake ... you want it to be there but you wouldn't want to test it too much and risk seeing what's really underneath it all

~

what? you've lost me there

[SHaYap]

4 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

what? you've lost me there

Never mind, its an old Chinese joke ... actually , specifically a Hokkien joke

~

[Dejarma]

4 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Never mind, its an old Chinese joke ... actually , specifically a Hokkien joke

~

oh right- it makes no sense to me... all i can say is in my house a cake wouldn't be around long enough to go moldy

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

oh right- it makes no sense to me... all i can say is in my house a cake wouldn't be around long enough to go moldy

I can understand that, the Asian definition of cakes covers a wider variety that kind of defies the Western expectations of what means a 'cake'

Usually Western style cakes are Birthday or special occasion cakes, the rest are also normally referred to as cakes in English but in Chinese the list is wide as it is lengthy but not the icing and cream variety

~

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

You were grasping at straws trying to over extend your point with your normal pretenses at fully comprehending the facts. Relying on flimsy claims of simplistic logic match by presenting a poor example based on such conditional set of a bias based study did'nt get you anywhere, trust is based on a more elaborate set of prerequisites than just Atheistic or Religious premises. your years of studying anywhere of higher education in the field of philosophy such as you claimed should have ingrained that in you. Jodie is correct, what you presented is and remains a false premise, regardless of your protests to the contrary.

 

Now you are relying your reality on the availability of surveys ?

YOur point here being you have no studies or surveys that says anything one way or the other ?

What's the difference between the women besides their fashion choices , one is more religious than the other ?

~

No I am presenting multiple academic findings tha t show the same thing.  If you  don't want to believe them that  is your problem.  (and your biased and emotive  reasons for not trusting them  are amusing) 

I am saying that in recent years muslims have been treated with more distrust.

However it is not showing up  (in studies or surveys)  that people find them less honest or trust worthy. In a wy their rigid application of faithmakes them more predictable and more honest  

Ad yes i put more trust in academic research and findings than in gut reactions and personable  beliefs 

No some of these studies come from 2018 and still show that we trust believers, including Muslims, more than we do non believers.

this overrides a gut perception that people are less trusting of muslims these days  

To your last point articles of faith such as clothes or icons are an indicator of belief Just a s one would think a priest less lilely to shop steal or a person wearing a cross, one tends to think of all relgious people as more honest.  This thinking is cognitively and socially evolved over thousands of years 

This does not make it so.

The argument arose about perception, and how people SEE others,  not how the y actually are.

 

[Reignite]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:09 AM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Yeah, but I dont care enough to be bothered.

What are you even doing on a forum, if you "dont care enough to be bothered"?

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, joc said:

 

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that you cannot really trust anyone...only in degrees.  Pedophiles hide behind Pastoral Robes and Teaching Certificates...Men of the church hide affairs...as well as women of the church...High Moral Politicians hide behind powerful committees ...morality is a myth...at the end of the day, we are all human, and at the end of the day, humans cannot be trusted. 

On the other hand, when you live in a community, you  MUST trust those around you, or you cant live a happy, stress- free, life 

I leave our house unlocked, the car unlocked, and often my wallet in the car all night. I can walk into my neighbour's homes, and they into mine, when they are not home, without any concern, to drop off  gifts, put things in their fridge, or put a straying  pet back in the house.  

I trust my community (but of course i live (from choice)  in one of the places with the lowest crime rate  in Australia.)   

[Jodie.Lynne]

8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No I am presenting multiple academic findings tha t show the same thing.  If you  don't want to believe them that  is your problem.  (and your biased and emotive  reasons for not trusting them  are amusing) 

You should check out my poll on this very subject Walker.

Take a bow, you inspired it.

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

This doesn't make any sense. 

How can one be honest god fearing yet be prone to violence and terrorism? 

How does the way a woman dress reveal whether she would steal or not? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you dont get it, i am not sure i can explain it. Take the time to read some of the sources i provided which look at human psychology  

 We ATTRIBUTE qualities to groups of people We identify individual  people by their appearance. Thus we identify a muslim orthodox woman by her dress  That means we tend to assume she has the qualities of a muslin believer. One of which is not to steal. 

We cannot determine the moralities of a modern western woman by her dress.(unless she is a fundamentalist christian of some sect or Amish etc)  She may be honest or not but we have no idea, so we are less trusting of her . 

It is very easy to be honest trustworthy and god fearing, but violent, if your beliefs allow or promote ALL those things Some believers believe violence is necessary to achieve what the y see as moral ends,  Others do not 

[Mr Walker]

4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

You should check out my poll on this very subject Walker.

Take a bow, you inspired it.

Hardly an unbiased or representative  set of people on UM  but it would be interesting  

[+Pettytalk]

9 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Yeah, that's it. Adam and Eve exists, so God exits. Jesus exists, so God exists and so on. At least to those who were alive at those various points in time.

We don't have a person or persons like that resident on the planet right now. If there was, and they were demonstrably representative of God's existence, then there would be less to doubt.

But what if the reason there isn't a representative person existent right now is exactly BECAUSE Lucifer (for the sake of the discussion was a person who also functioned so that we can have less doubt and more faith that God exists) suddenly announce out of the blue that God in reality, doesn't exist?

 

 

Lucifer, for the sake of discussion, is petty talk. Suddenly is not sudden enough, nor sufficient for the moment. Lucifer will announce that God, not only exists, but that He will reiterate that vengeance is His. He will, like Don Vito, Cor-Leone, or Richard, the Lion heart, come back to His earthly kingdom, and take it back from those that are evil. He will be back at the helm. He will then settle all scores, and obtain complete revenge for all the wrongs in the world. Which includes the slandering of His, and His Son's name, which is taken in vain around here too.  La Resa dei Conti for The Good the Bad, and the Ugly.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments. 7You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.…

Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. ^c Do not be conceited.

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” ^d says the Lord. 20On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;

if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.

In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” ^e

21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

 

[GoldenWolf]

3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

That wasn't what will was saying. he pointed out that some people's disbelief prevents them physically or psychologically seeing and perceiving something which exists right in front of them. 

Like you and your Aphantasia?

[Mr Walker]

17 minutes ago, GoldenWolf said:

Like you and your Aphantasia?

Yep That prevents me seeing even the simplest object in my mind.  It is one reason i know i do not see imaginary things. I never have images in my mind while i am awake and not under powerful pain killers  This does not prevent me seeing things which are there but it prevents me imagining things which are NOT there.  Of course it also means i cannot construct images of things which are real like an animal or a chair . i don't see ANYTHING in my mind, once my eyes are closed 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Mr Walker

[Imaginarynumber1]

59 minutes ago, Reignite said:

What are you even doing on a forum, if you "dont care enough to be bothered"?

Whatever the hell I feel like.