Plan for Trump to give Putin $68m penthouse

[+OverSword]

20 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Trump then tried to end those sanctions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Trump, but that's not illegal.  Even more so because it never happened.  If it had possibly that would prove or at least indicate corruption and impeachment proceedings could be held, but it didn't.  As has been demonstrated by this administration freedom of speech is alive and well in the oval office and trump says pretty much anything he wants regardless of how unintelligent that is.

[ExpandMyMind]

53 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Trump, but that's not illegal.  Even more so because it never happened.  If it had possibly that would prove or at least indicate corruption and impeachment proceedings could be held, but it didn't.  As has been demonstrated by this administration freedom of speech is alive and well in the oval office and trump says pretty much anything he wants regardless of how unintelligent that is.

It didn't happen because it was made clear to Trump that it wouldn't, - couldn't - happen. You don't get points for failing in your attempt at corruption. He still tried to end the sanctions, knowing that he needed them to end in order to get billions from a Russian bank. That's still blatant corruption.

Also, it is definitely illegal to carry out favours for a foreign nation for personal profit. The only way this is (somehow) legal is through lobbying.

We'll see how it all pans out but the more that is revealed about this whole saga, the worse it looks for Trump.

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

He still tried to end the sanctions, knowing that he needed them to end in order to get billions from a Russian bank. That's still blatant corruption.

No it's not.  If you can prove that is the reason then maybe you have a case but he clearly stated to the entire world during his campaign that he wanted to improve US/Russia relations so it can easily be argued that was the reason he wanted to ease sanctions so this is still grounds for exactly nothing from a legal standpoint absent a recording of trump saying lets get rid of sanctions so I can get Russia to fund my building.

[Gromdor]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

No it's not.  If you can prove that is the reason then maybe you have a case but he clearly stated to the entire world during his campaign that he wanted to improve US/Russia relations so it can easily be argued that was the reason he wanted to ease sanctions so this is still grounds for exactly nothing from a legal standpoint absent a recording of trump saying lets get rid of sanctions so I can get Russia to fund my building.

That's why presidents are supposed to divest themselves of anything that gives the appearance of conflict of interest.  Corruption is using power for personal gain after all.  Even if it is incidental corruption, it still tarnishes the office and the man. 

[+OverSword]

30 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

That's why presidents are supposed to divest themselves of anything that gives the appearance of conflict of interest.  Corruption is using power for personal gain after all.  Even if it is incidental corruption, it still tarnishes the office and the man. 

Yeah, and it's pretty obvious he has not completely done that since I believe he has stated that he will return to running his business after he returns to civilian life.  Conflict of interest is a main feature of our corrupt system and has been for decades.  We really need to do something about that.  Too bad the only member of the senate that may have the moral fortitude to confront that is a freshman with an apparent IQ of around 90 and an even smaller idea of how the government is supposed to work.

[Tatetopa]

6 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

It's obvious he's compromised by this point. Like, glaringly, obviously obvious. President Trump is a Crook.

I would like to stop a little short of that.  He was and always will be a New York real estate developer with the sensibilities that engenders.  He has a Great Gatsby sense of entitlement, arrogance, and dismissal of other people.  It makes for an exciting interview with a shock jock, but maybe not from the White House.  Observing the many hours of tv exposure  and written publicity he has had over the years would lead one to believe he is a bully and a coward, in itself, not a crime.  A lot of his policies are main stream Republican,, he just presents them in a more combative, in your face sort of way.  Obviously some people find that to be refreshing.   The tax cut was right out of the Republican give the lord a loaf and he will give the peasants some crumbs playbook.  It is the lords that lobby and pay for political expenses on both sides of the aisle.  The tariffs gall the free traders and cheer the protectionists.  

 

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

If they can prove that Trump ran for president so that he could get the Russians to subsidize trump tower Moscow then impeach his ass.

I don't think that was the case.  Somebody asked how, not if Putin could get an advantage over President Trump.  It is not far fetched, it is just not likely,  In any case, if Russia did try to influence Donald Trump it would have been a lot more subtle, not so hammer fisted. And I can imagine his motives were not treasonous.  He might have been led to believe that he could do what Obama couldn't : usher in a new era of friendship and cooperation between the United States and Russia.  That is not treason. It does target his weak point, his ego. Donald Trump is as everybody loves to point out, an outsider.  He is pitted against Vladimir Putin, an ultimate insider who has risen to power in a system where the losers may die, and friends can be betrayed. 

 

4 hours ago, OverSword said:

The one thing it will do is drive his opponents into an ineffective emotional rage like we haven’t seen since the appointment of Kabanaugh. Just what America needs.

Yes, we can put them ranting in one corner out of our way; and send the folks with hands over ears singing lalalalala  and their eyes closed to the possibility that their hero is not godlike.  Then we can get on with the  business of maintaining our position in a changing and sometimes adversarial world.. 

[Robotic Jew]

3 hours ago, OverSword said:

No it's not.  If you can prove that is the reason then maybe you have a case but he clearly stated to the entire world during his campaign that he wanted to improve US/Russia relations so it can easily be argued that was the reason he wanted to ease sanctions so this is still grounds for exactly nothing from a legal standpoint absent a recording of trump saying lets get rid of sanctions so I can get Russia to fund my building.

Couldn't it be argued that he only said that he wanted to improve them because of the corruption and possible personal benefits?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:25 AM, Farmer77 said:

That's how someone becomes "compromised" though. Business dealings that are less than above board become leverage for the Russian government down the road.

 

Ahh, I see, Farmer. "down the road".

So, say 6 months from now, Vladimir asks Trump to sell him 20% of America's uranium supply. Something like that...?   <grin>

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Because it was something that Trump on multiple occasions hid from the public. Trump was lying about it constantly and Russia knew he was lying about it.

In other words, Russia knew a secret about Trump that he didn't want public. That's the literal definition of kompromat.

No, EMM, Vladimir Putin giving the Clinton Trust fund $165 million,,, THAT'S ownage, as in, Putin OWNS HRC

It's about which way the money flows. If Trump gives Putin money, people in Russia should worry, just as Americans should worry when Putin gives HRC money.

Further stated, Trump gave Putin **his own money**, not taxpayer money. Big nothing burger.

See how it works?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

@OverSword This post explains in more detail how it would be leverage over Trump.

People should also remember that trying to get rid of Russian sanctions was one of the first things Trump did after becoming President. And he still refuses to sign into law the new sanctions voted for unanimously by Congress.

It's obvious he's compromised by this point. Like, glaringly, obviously obvious. President Trump is a Crook.

Your mouth is writing checks that can't be cashed again

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So, say 6 months from now, Vladimir asks Trump to sell him 20% of America's uranium supply. Something like that...?   <grin>

No Earl, it doesn't have to be so blatant.  Maybe Vladimir got what he wanted by throwing us into dog fight chaos.  Maybe Russia just hinted that there are two sides to every story and they would appreciate telling their side of the Ukraine naval encounter when they get all of the facts in a couple of weeks; so please let the G20 proceed on other topics.  You don't have to be a traitor to be influenced by another head of state you think you can trust as your friend. The president is loyal to his organization, he demands personal loyalty from his associates, maybe he thought that extended further than it did in Vladimir's case.  Hesitation might be a reasonable  

You don't have to be a traitor to want to sell arms to Saudi Arabia and get cheap gas  to fulfill campaign promises and not rock the boat. Whether those things make America stronger in the long run remains to be seen.

It seems a little  off plan when the President asks OPEC to up production while at the same time desiring America to dominate the energy sector.  If oil gets short and the price goes up, American producers are in good position to take advantage of it, increase production and offer the world a non-OPEC source of petroleum.

[Tatetopa]

8 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Further stated, Trump gave Putin **his own money**, not taxpayer money. Big nothing burger.

See how it works?

Earl, by your logic: Vladimir Putin wanting to give the Clinton Foundation money proves to the world what a great philanthropic guy he is.  I bet you didn't know he had such a soft heart. Giving money to a non-governmental foundation run by private citizens, no taxpayers involved- nothing burger.  Is that how it works? 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 hours ago, Gromdor said:

That's why presidents are supposed to divest themselves of anything that gives the appearance of conflict of interest.  Corruption is using power for personal gain after all.  Even if it is incidental corruption, it still tarnishes the office and the man. 

It seems like some people wake up to the realities of Republican Democracy in America only when the opposition wins the election.

Gromdor, Hilary got heavy donations from such countries as Saudi Arabia and Russia, not to mention donations to the Clinton Trust Fund. Conflict of interest.

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It seems like some people wake up to the realities of Republican Democracy in America only when the opposition wins the election.

Gromdor, Hilary got heavy donations from such countries as Saudi Arabia and Russia, not to mention donations to the Clinton Trust Fund. Conflict of interest.

Yup.  It's why I didn't vote for her.  She has a history of being close to Donald Trump too.  When I first heard Donald was running, I actually thought Hillary put him up to it to ensure her win while making a mockery of the Republican party.

[ExpandMyMind]

38 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

20% of America's uranium supply.

 

24 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

No, EMM, Vladimir Putin giving the Clinton Trust fund $165 million,,, THAT'S ownage, as in, Putin OWNS HRC

 

25 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

It's about which way the money flows. If Trump gives Putin money, people in Russia should worry, just as Americans should worry when Putin gives HRC money.

 

25 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Further stated, Trump gave Putin **his own money**, not taxpayer money. Big nothing burger.

Your points are so absolutely ridiculous that I shouldn't even bother replying to your conspiracy theories, but I will just say that every point you've made above is completely and utterly false.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

No Earl, it doesn't have to be so blatant.  Maybe Vladimir got what he wanted by throwing us into dog fight chaos.  Maybe Russia just hinted that there are two sides to every story and they would appreciate telling their side of the Ukraine naval encounter when they get all of the facts in a couple of weeks; so please let the G20 proceed on other topics.  You don't have to be a traitor to be influenced by another head of state you think you can trust as your friend. The president is loyal to his organization, he demands personal loyalty from his associates, maybe he thought that extended further than it did in Vladimir's case.  Hesitation might be a reasonable  

Tat, you have a lot of "maybe's " there. Ultimately, what did Trump do that was wrong? Obama gave US taxpayer money to rebuild Havana Harbor - a communist nation. Maybe it Is cooperation with other nations? or is it blatant conflict of interest, money laundering and treason? Lots of maybes.

10 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You don't have to be a traitor to want to sell arms to Saudi Arabia and get cheap gas  to fulfill campaign promises and not rock the boat. Whether those things make America stronger in the long run remains to be seen.

It seems a little  off plan when the President asks OPEC to up production while at the same time desiring America to dominate the energy sector.  If oil gets short and the price goes up, American producers are in good position to take advantage of it, increase production and offer the world a non-OPEC source of petroleum.

Many policies and "things like purchases and donations can be viewed as "suspect". nothing new here. But like I say, Trump owns Putin right now, ergo, it is Russian people that have to worry, not Americans.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

17 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Earl, by your logic: Vladimir Putin wanting to give the Clinton Foundation money proves to the world what a great philanthropic guy he is.  I bet you didn't know he had such a soft heart. Giving money to a non-governmental foundation run by private citizens, no taxpayers involved- nothing burger.  Is that how it works? 

I never said that, Tat. What I said was Trump's donation to Putin should not make American's worry. But Putin's donation to Hilary SHOULD make us worry.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

 

 

 

Your points are so absolutely ridiculous that I shouldn't even bother replying to your conspiracy theories, but I will just say that every point you've made above is completely and utterly false.

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

You mean you have no way to attack my points so you pretend it is beneath you to do so.  Thanks EMM

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, Robotic Jew said:

Couldn't it be argued that he only said that he wanted to improve them because of the corruption and possible personal benefits?

Yes but you could never prove that's why he said it.  The comments about getting along with Russia were met with as much applause from the drone gallery as Obama was when he proposed a civilian force as well funded and as well armed as our military.  Obama pretty much lived up to that promise should our current president settle for less?

 

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If he does get impeached, it will not be because he was conservative or because he says he put America first, it will be because he couldn't separate his business from being preside

Going after him for things he might have done prior to even running for president... that'd be okay with you?  So now we'd be left with people running for office ONLY if they are squeaky clean their entire lives or have the backing of people who won't question their prior activities?  Are you telling me you REALLY don't see the extremely lopsided bias of the modern "news" media?  Because if you can't see that or aren't willing to call them on it then you are part of the problem and problems eventually demand solutions.  THAT'S the part I dread.  I'm not naive enough to believe the overt propaganda any longer and I cannot just assuage the anger by saying "they all do it".  One side in this fight - and it IS a fight - is far worse in their lies and strategies and they will kill this nation if they can't gain and keep TOTAL POWER.  Look at what's being attempted in NY with screening people's social media to decide if they have second amendment rights.  Whistle along all you like but this way lies a bloody conflict whether you try to see it coming or not.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

So far, many ideas have been hatched and spun like a top. Nobody knows what Trump has coming to him from Russia for his "donation".

I suspect we'll find out when Trump is out of office and Trump Business lands a big "deal" in Mother Russia LOL

[ExpandMyMind]

41 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

LOLOLOLOL!!!!

You mean you have no way to attack my points so you pretend it is beneath you to do so.  Thanks EMM

I addressed them. Literally nothing you said was true, and, since you offered no evidence except your baseless claims, there was nothing for me to challenge.

Edited December 5, 2018 by ExpandMyMind

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I addressed them. Literally nothing you said was true, and, since you offered no evidence except your baseless claims, there was nothing for me to challenge.

This is from one of your left leaning newspapers, the Washington Post in 2017 that quotes from another left leaning paper, the New York Times.

Bill and Hilary Get Generous Donations After Uranium One Deal

"The New York Times reported in 2015 that "shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, [former President Bill] Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock." In total, $145 million went to the Clinton Foundation from interests linked to Uranium One, which was acquired by the Russian government nuclear agency Rosatum. "

Now if you want to show me "Fact Checker's" fact-checked version just remember this, the deal DID take place while HRC was secretary of state and Bill Clinton DID make a lot of money on lecture tours, as well as the Clinton Trust fund getting $145  million from the Russian based company, with ties to the Kremlin, aka, Putin. 1 + 1 =

 

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Tat, you have a lot of "maybe's " there. Ultimately, what did Trump do that was wrong? Obama gave US taxpayer money to rebuild Havana Harbor - a communist nation. Maybe it Is cooperation with other nations? or is it blatant conflict of interest, money laundering and treason? Lots of maybes.

Maybes are all we have at this stage.  Being skeptical, I am waiting for evidence. I am using the maybes to stay in the uncertain middle not to build a chain for conviction or acquittal.  All we have is gut feelings until more is made public.  My gut feel is that Donald Trump is not a treasonous politician who was out to hurt the country.  He is a businessman who may or may not have dropped a deal soon enough.

BTW, Why should we worry about Vladimir giving the Clinton Foundation money?  It is his golden key to get into a small circle of very lucrative mineral deals and concessions in Africa and the Asia.  Maybe he is doing it for personal gain, maybe for Russia.  I am only guessing he wants to be as rich as an oligarch. Unless of course Hillary becomes the next president.

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Many policies and "things like purchases and donations can be viewed as "suspect". nothing new here. But like I say, Trump owns Putin right now, ergo, it is Russian people that have to worry, not Americans.

 I put my foot in my mouth on that one.  I did not mean to say there is anything suspect, I can see where my phrasing was poor.    So, no accusations or side eye at the president about anything suspect. Again, I don't think he is a treasonous politician, just a businessman who relies on personal connections, and maybe sometimes makes mistakes.

Have you ever seen President Trump and Vladimir Putin do a high five and happy dance on international TV?   The scene with the Crown Prince and President Putin was not spontaneous.  Did you see President Trump walk by in the background like a boy kicked out of the "cool kids club".  Maybe that display was for President Trump, maybe for the world.  Our long term ally, a very good ally for 60 years is getting buddy buddy with one of our chief rivals.  .  Donald Trump doesn't own Putin: MBS and Putin showed us where things stand, They pwned us.

Have a good one Earl.

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, and then said:

Going after him for things he might have done prior to even running for president... that'd be okay with you? 

Nope.  Not OK with me.  Only things he has done since he became a candidate and was elected.

 

4 hours ago, and then said:

Are you telling me you REALLY don't see the extremely lopsided bias of the modern "news" media?

It is not hard to spot. Apart from FOX, major networks think he is unfit to be President, and don't waste an opportunity to tell us about it.  You have a choice who you want to listen to and how you will try to ferret a few facts out of a lot of  hot air and conflation.  What I can't see with your certainty is this enemy on the left  will kill this nation if they can't have total power.  Sorry, that still sounds a little paranoid to me. I just can't in all honesty and upon my word see it that way..

 

4 hours ago, and then said:

Whistle along all you like but this way lies a bloody conflict whether you try to see it coming or not.

I dread that too.  I think I even know how it could start.   You seem to think the left will destroy the country with politics, there have been hints in many threads that the right plans to destroy the country with assault rifles and violence.   It is not going to be glorious or patriotic.  It is going to be the end of freedom, equality, and justice. It is a dark end for a country with so much promise.  Maybe you think it is better than the alternative, I choose neither.  I think both radical extremes are insane.