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OverSword

Social Media and Search History Gun Bill

78 posts in this topic

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and then
3 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

That you can't apply for asylum in America, in America?

What does that have to do with this thread?  Also, it is dishonest to assert that people can no longer apply for asylum.  They are as free to do it as they ever were.  What is happening to those who are trying to force their way into the country is a result of concerted effort to tear down the rules that have governed legal immigration for decades.  MOST of those who sneak in and are caught, are not legally approved for asylum because they don't meet the criteria.

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Myles

There are major issues in doing this besides the crushing of our 1st and 2nd Amendment rights. 

Who gets to judge what is "hate speech"?    Is it hate speech when someone is constantly ragging on Trump supporters or Hillary supporters?   Or does it only have to concern minorities?   It's way too subjective.  

It's pretty easy to create an account in another persons name.   That would make it very easy to sabotage someone.   It'd be a good method for an ex to use.  

 

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Big Jim

This isn't about guns.  That is only the current politically viable excuse, a foot in the door, if you will.  They are using the tragedy and emotion of mass shooters to promote legislation with the potential for much broader control.  If this law is passed with regard to gun purchases then it will be able to be modified without much notice to be used to screen applicants for driver's licenses, adoptions, property purchases, permits of all kinds.  It's a backdoor method of censuring the internet, of keeping political movements from using social media to expound their ideas. It will ultimately reduce all social media to sharing only cat pictures and recipes.

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aztek
23 hours ago, and then said:

  Eventually, they have to come for the weapons.  Then, it's on to the revolution.

but they wont come for guns, they will go about it differently, they will pass a law, (nys already has a bill) requiring you to have liability insurance,  then the price will be such, that most wont be able to afford, they will have no choice but get rid of guns that are registered, that gvmnt knows about.

and once the law passed they will keep making it more restrictive, it wont change much amount of guns in peoples hands but it will give them much more ways to bust you, raid your house, confiscate everything, put you in prison...etc

Edited by aztek

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OverSword
40 minutes ago, aztek said:

but they wont come for guns, they will go about it differently, they will pass a law, (nys already has a bill) requiring you to have liability insurance,  then the price will be such, that most wont be able to afford, they will have no choice but get rid of guns that are registered, that gvmnt knows about.

and once the law passed they will keep making it more restrictive, it wont change much amount of guns in peoples hands but it will give them much more ways to bust you, raid your house, confiscate everything, put you in prison...etc

Easily bypassed.  "My guns were all tragically lost in the river when I was on a friends boat"

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Big Jim
15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Easily bypassed.  "My guns were all tragically lost in the river when I was on a friends boat"

So they search your house using metal detectors.

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OverSword
12 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

So they search your house using metal detectors.

On what grounds?  Good luck getting that warrant.

Edited by OverSword

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aztek

he has a point, they will only have one more reasons to bust your door, i have no doubt warrant will be signed by liberal judge in advance,  what i think more likely will happen, people will sell their guns, submit a bill of sale, remove guns from their record, and buy one illegally same day.

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Kismit
11 hours ago, and then said:

If his peers, parents or teachers noticed it and brought it to the attention of law enforcement then yes, I think it would be justified for them to pursue an investigation.  That isn't what this particular bill is attempting to accomplish.  This is an effort by a government to codify a right to analyze an individual's thoughts and ideology and to make decisions that can take away Constitutional RIGHTS from that person based on whatever standard of behavior they decide to call "acceptable".  Can you understand the downside of giving such power to a government under such ambiguous rules?  The sad truth is that political ideology is at the heart of all such legislation and our government has proven, especially over the past couple of years, that it cannot be trusted to be an honest arbiter that will protect the rights of all.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  

 

11 hours ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

that's heading into the territory of thought crime, or the film and Philip K. Dick story Minority Report, isn't it. It's the classic dilemma, if someone says they'd like to do this or that, is that grounds for stopping them before they've done it? Or the way that much-loved leaders like General Secretary Stalin removed people that he thought might be a threat to him at some point. 

If the sort of social media surveillance that leads to guns removed from the hands of those who have shown a desire to commit gun crimes, equates to thought police in your view. How do you feel about this story?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12172473

I know passports and not guns, but both are removed under the guise that a crime "might" take place. Is that also the realm of the thought police?

I understand that the right to own a gun for law abiding citizens is important for Americans. And I understand that the legislation should reflect the public rights above all else in this case however  I  can see a way that the temporary seizure of guns while under assessment could save many lives.

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Kismit
17 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Which is exactly why I'm against this.

AndThen has been a safe responsible gun owner his whole life.

I know it's a cultural difference. 

And yet the Las Vegas shooter was a responsible gun owner until he wasn't. 

And the thousands of responsible gun owners who are no longer with thier families because they took thier own lives during an episode of depression. 

The Columbine shooters took videos of themselves shooting and practicing.  That is the sort of thing that would now days end up somewhere on the internet. Probably 8 Chan. Being able to produce hard evidence of desire rather than depending on hearsay could prove valuable in preventing unesicary death or disfigurement. 

 

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Kismit
17 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Did you ever notice in history that shortly after a socialist regime bans guns, they go on a wilding?

Russia, China, Germany, Cambodia, Cuba. And now, Venezuela (meduro) has banned gun ownership. I bet it will happen there, too.

*edited for brevity *

Didn't happen in Australia or England.  Perhaps other factors are necessary for things to result in a, Wilding. 

Also I am not really sure what a Wilding is exactly. 

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joc
On 12/5/2018 at 11:08 AM, OverSword said:

A pair of New York legislators is drafting a bill that would make social media history checks part of the process of purchasing a gun.

I think that is not possible, given the first amendment.  Social media is NOTHING but speech...and therefore a regulation of guns via a persons speech would be a regulation of speech....it will never fly.

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OverSword
19 minutes ago, Kismit said:

The Columbine shooters took videos of themselves shooting and practicing.

Go to YouTube and search for videos of people shooting guns.  There are a ton of them so that's meaningless.  Here's the thing, you can't stop lone-wolf attacks.  Remember the Boston bombers, or all the people that have driven through a crowd of people?  Anyone could go to a pool supply store and by enough chlorine to do a lot a damage on a train or a bus. I can think of 10 ways to hurt or kill a lot of people in one go without a gun just off the top of my head.  You just can't stop someone who is really determined and nuts.

Edited by OverSword
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Dark_Grey
1 hour ago, aztek said:

he has a point, they will only have one more reasons to bust your door, i have no doubt warrant will be signed by liberal judge in advance,  what i think more likely will happen, people will sell their guns, submit a bill of sale, remove guns from their record, and buy one illegally same day.

After a major flood around here a few years ago, the RCMP (akin to America's SWAT or DEA,) went to all the houses in town with registered guns and confiscated them all. This happened after the Federal Gov had supposedly abolished the gun registry so how did they know where to find all the firearms?:huh:

I hear that the RCMP did give the guns back (unconfirmed,) but the point is undeniable: under the right circumstances, your right to gun ownership means SQUAT. At least in Canada, where that right is not protected by a Constitution. The first day of true Martial Law will be a horrible one.

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Kismit
1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Go to YouTube and search for videos of people shooting guns.  There are a ton of them so that's meaningless.  Here's the thing, you can't stop lone-wolf attacks.  Remember the Boston bombers, or all the people that have driven through a crowd of people?  Anyone could go to a pool supply store and by enough chlorine to do a lot a damage on a train or a bus. I can think of 10 ways to hurt or kill a lot of people in one go without a gun.  You just can't stop someone who is really determined and nuts.

I  want to try to avoid doubling down on my arguments in this thread because it is all hypothetical anyway. And I fully agree that it is not constitutional to remove guns. And that other options exist to cause mass harm. 

But if you have ever read a person's Facebook page and wondered if they are mentally stable or seen a 4 Chan or 8 Chan post and known a person was seriously bad you can see a difference between just shooting guns and possible problems. 

I think if family members, teachers, and or medical professionals raise the alerts and that leads to a social media scan which can produce evidence of possible gun crimes  ( maybe even gang association ) then somega good could come from it. But it would most definitely have to be done in a way that protects the rights of the public above all else.

 

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Big Jim
3 hours ago, OverSword said:

I can think of 10 ways to hurt or kill a lot of people in one go without a gun just off the top of my head. 

In the future we're talking about that declaration could result in you being a marked man.

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aztek
5 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

After a major flood around here a few years ago, the RCMP (akin to America's SWAT or DEA,) went to all the houses in town with registered guns and confiscated them all. This happened after the Federal Gov had supposedly abolished the gun registry so how did they know where to find all the firearms?:huh:

I hear that the RCMP did give the guns back (unconfirmed,) but the point is undeniable: under the right circumstances, your right to gun ownership means SQUAT. At least in Canada, where that right is not protected by a Constitution. The first day of true Martial Law will be a horrible one.

registration=confiscation.

Iirc something like this happened in NO after Katrina.

 

 

Edited by aztek
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F3SS
On 12/5/2018 at 2:59 PM, Gromdor said:

I see it turning into this: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4

Technology is far outpacing societies ability to comprehend the morality and implications of what it is creating.

 

I read all about that last year and it is absolutely insane. The way it creates classes and outcasts is, again, insane. 

You think people thrive on getting meaningless "likes"? They must obsess themselves over their public social credit rating. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
6 hours ago, Kismit said:

Didn't happen in Australia or England.  Perhaps other factors are necessary for things to result in a, Wilding. 

Also I am not really sure what a Wilding is exactly. 

Well, yeah, Australia and England aren't socialist dictatorships. a wilding is a ferocious, physical melee that goes way over the top.

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aztek
1 hour ago, F3SS said:

I read all about that last year and it is absolutely insane. The way it creates classes and outcasts is, again, insane. 

 

 we already have classes and outcasts,   they just made it official. but the class depends largely on you, just like criminal\dmv record.

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Likely Guy
19 hours ago, and then said:

What does that have to do with this thread?

Don't get your frickin' knickers in a knot. It was a query to a previous post.

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F3SS
48 minutes ago, aztek said:

 we already have classes and outcasts,   they just made it official. but the class depends largely on you, just like criminal\dmv record.

Sure it's on you but the social implications are pretty deep when people avoid you because of your credit score and I don't mean lenders. I don't know about you but I've never had any circle of friends where everyone holds 800 credit scores. I've been a 5 while a friend was an 8 and vica versa. It's pretty messed up when just being friends with someone can affect your credit score or in China's case, their social credit score. It's a whole other level of twisted. 

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aztek
29 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Sure it's on you but the social implications are pretty deep when people avoid you because of your credit score and I don't mean lenders. I don't know about you but I've never had any circle of friends where everyone holds 800 credit scores. I've been a 5 while a friend was an 8 and vica versa. It's pretty messed up when just being friends with someone can affect your credit score or in China's case, their social credit score. It's a whole other level of twisted. 

people wont avoid you cuz of cs more than they do now,  even in china,  credit score may be one of the components of social score, most likely not as solid as driving and criminal record, which are your deeds of your choice,  today people already have implications due to those, rightfully so. imo

such wonderful folks are already certain class, in some cases outcasts.  where is the difference?

btw, if you don't chose to commit crimes, don't drive drunk, don't lose license, you get a better job,  more money, better credit score.... all in your hands

Edited by aztek

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Michelle
15 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Sure it's on you but the social implications are pretty deep when people avoid you because of your credit score and I don't mean lenders. I don't know about you but I've never had any circle of friends where everyone holds 800 credit scores. I've been a 5 while a friend was an 8 and vica versa. It's pretty messed up when just being friends with someone can affect your credit score or in China's case, their social credit score. It's a whole other level of twisted. 

A lot of our friends are very well off. I wouldn't mind if a little bit of it rubbed off on us. :lol:

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F3SS
1 minute ago, Michelle said:

A lot of our friends are very well off. I wouldn't mind if a little bit of it rubbed off on us. :lol:

That's the thing, you'd rub off on them therefore they'd avoid you. 

I dont know aztek. From what I read that's very much the direction they're heading if not already there.

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