The Presidential Carpet

[Helen of Annoy]

7 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Putin is as bad as Trump, only smarter and Russia isn't even a 'lefty' nation.  As I said, you need an upgrade.  The old Soviet days finished some 30 years ago.  The major Party now is called United Russia and they claim Russian Nationalism and Conservatism as their ideology and deny being Left or Right wing.  They're a state run capitalist country, therefore they can't be neither Communists nor Socialists and United Russia, which is Putin's Party and it's been so successful through recent elections, although many dispute the integrity of the results (and how they manage the country's economy and finances), that it runs the nation almost like China's mono system Communist Party. 

So basically, it's more like a fascist regime run by a Party full of crooks with Putin it's dictator and Medvedev and other United Russia affiliates his cronies.

Exactly that.

Also blessed by the top of the Russian Orthodox Church. 

 

Disclaimer: I said top of the Church. I'm more than fine with Orthodox Christians. I'm not fine with current political agenda of Russian Orthodox Church leaders.  

[Phaeton80]

6 hours ago, joc said:

I didn't mean to imply you were a Communist.  It's okay if you are.  What I said was a fan of Socialism/communism over Capitalism.  I also articulated earlier that I was sure that you would not want to give up your possessions for the Communist way of life.  

All I know about Communism is what Stalin and Mao and others have taught me.  it's evil.  I don't think you are evil.  The ideology is inherently evil...a noble idea that doesn't work and is a destructive mechanism toward the very freedom that Capitalism allows.

 

This is going to be a shock to you, but Im not even classifiable as 'a Socialist'. I take things from both Socialism and Capitalism as I see fit, what I agree with. I am not a fanatic of either concept (because thats what you are if you employ strictly Socialist, or strictly Capitalist measures / ideas). My nation's government is like that, we have parties populated across the left / right spectrum; none are purely either side of the fence; all serve themselves with policies coming from both concepts, just at varying levels. This might be one of the main reasons why you so easily regard 'the left' as a single group (Democrats), and the right as a single group (Republicans), which in turn quite possibly paves the way for the left/right black & white views youve been throwing around here.

Youre more or less confirming you dont know too much about communism besides what 'Stalin and Mao have taught you', would it be a reasonable idea to make this a bit of a study (communism and socialism); trying to gain a balanced view of the subject matter (that is to say, not only read content that agrees with your present position)?

Edited December 22, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Black Red Devil]

4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Exactly that.

Also blessed by the top of the Russian Orthodox Church. 

 

Disclaimer: I said top of the Church. I'm more than fine with Orthodox Christians. I'm not fine with current political agenda of Russian Orthodox Church leaders.  

Wasn't aware the Church was involved in Putin's shady political agendas.  How surprising (sarc).

[Phaeton80]

49 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Wasn't aware the Church was involved in Putin's shady political agendas.  How surprising (sarc).

 

Dont forget the Chabad Lubavitch connections playing a large role in the political arena.. Central in the Russia / Israeli relations, and in turn, very plausibly, Russia >< Trump.

[Disclaimer: although I do suspect some highly questionable relations between Russian high profile players and Trump (which could undermine Trump on several levels), I am absolutely convinced there is a combined Western effort at more or less full spectrum demonization of Russia - mass promoting her as a clear & present existential threat - in favor of Western geo political aspirations, including but not limited to the ME. And as a sidenote; Trump is no more guilty of treason than the Clintons, Bushes (one of the most treasonous American families to date), nothing new under the sun in that sense]

Edited December 22, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Helen of Annoy]

32 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Wasn't aware the Church was involved in Putin's shady political agendas.  How surprising (sarc).

Well, at least they managed to offend Ukrainians enough they founded their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church the other day. It was logical step, Orthodox churches are national, each nation has own Church and patriarch. Since the Christ is one, it would also be logical that the relationships between them are more than friendly, but they aren't. While Vatican can somehow curb local Catholic bishops' political ambitions, there's no authority to curb particular national patriarch from going full politics. (I'm not saying Catholics are better - my local CC figures are politicians of the most blasphemous kind - just that they have the central authority to answer to - which is currently happening to my local Pharisees. tee-hee.)   

[+joc]

2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

Dear lord.. Joc, dude, havent we just seen page after page of you consistently painting the left and right with a three mile brush, numerous people pointing that out with clearcut facts and underwriting citations, only for you to machine gun thesame blindsided Evil Communism / Holy Capitalism rhetoric over and over again? And 'not the Joc' (ie. everyone else on this thread) are supposed to be blindsided propaganda victims for not believing in 'Evil Communism' and 'Evil Russia / Putin'?!

Conditioning often results in increasing generalizations, increasing loss of nuance, oversimplification of reality. This side is 'good', that side is 'bad'. Black, white, up, down. Guess what youve been doing ad naseum, almost without exception, throughout this thread.. Not only that, when your posts are criticized you immediately jump to the conclusion everyone else on this thread has 'fallen for it hook line & sinker', completely ignoring the very real possibility you are in fact the one being served the koolaid, being blindsided (especially given this whole thread more or less attests to that (grave generalizations)).

Let me ask you this though, what are the foremost media channels you use to get your daily / weekly news?

 

Thanks for asking! I'll start with that question and work my way back through your post.  That's just it...I don't!  I like Rush Limbaugh...I can listen to him for a little while...but...and this is very important....but, he doesn't influence my thinking at all.  The reason I like listening to Rush is not because I agree with him.  It is because he agrees with what I think.  What...I...think!  And that is the other huge point I think you are missing.  I am not accusing anyone of being a Communist...that is so McCarthy era...please!  I'm not painting you or anyone else as this or that...it may seem...it does seem to you that I am.  What I am actually trying to point out is he whole Left mindset and where it comes from.  

You say I am painting the Left with a 3 mile brush....that may be true...because the casting of the net is far and wide.  Everything I am saying I did not get from Rush Limbaugh or anyone else.  These are my own thoughts, created by me, based on my questioning of the entire political spectrum...and I have shared it over and over but I will one more time.  It goes like this:

@Golden Duck posted that the Soviet Union was a one trick pony.  So correct he was.  That One Trick was....Drive tanks into a country and say:  Hello Comrades...You are now part of the Soviet Union...you are welcome!   Fast forward:   to Reagan Administration.   To say that Reagan single handedly defeated the USSR ....as many pundits on the Right are prone to say....is false.  The Soviets beat themselves.  Their entire infrastructure was a joke...and I know this from an eye witness.  I don't know the eye witness but I did read his book....Investment Biker.  He was a Wall Street guy who made millions early and his dream was to circumvent the globe on a motorcycle.  As he crossed Siberia and the entire Soviet Union on his motorcycle, he made the observations on their infrastructure, among other things.   He drove by missle silos in the middle of nowhere...abandoned...rusting...etc...and much more.  He also spoke with a number of Soviets who were pretty closed mouthed about saying anything at all...and some who told him they were afraid to speak of anything.

That was really just an aside to say that Russia was falling apart at the seams....Reagan helped them fall apart faster.  But then:

Here are my thoughts...not Rush's or anyone elses.   The Communist Hierarchy found themselves in a unique position.  The KGB headquarters had been trashed.  The 'UNION' was no more.   There were no microphones and bugs in every conversation.  The other trick however that GD didn't mention was their Perseverance.   My thoughts are that the Russians wanted One Union...the Global Soviet Union.  They were well on their way to achieving that when the Cold War ended.  But the reason the Cold War ended was because Reagan opened up the Energy Production of America.  Suddenly the economy started booming...We were building ships, restructuring and pouring a lot of money into the Military. At the same time the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse, Reagan was spouting 'idiocy' like, We need a Star Wars Program...shoot missiles out of the sky with Lazers.   That scared the Soviets  They knew if Reagan could achieve that and they were literally broke and falling apart.  Then Reagan began with Tear Down This Wall...okay, enough ancient history.

What happened next no one talks about.   So, I put on my very own Communist Thinking Cap.  They regrouped.  They realized that the One Trick was over and they had to find a new way of taking America.   That is my thinking that Russia wants to either destroy America or Take America.  Own America.  Regardless of the Cold War being ancient history...the undying perseverance of Global Russia persists.   Flash forward to today.

No longer under the radar...restrengthened, refreshed, with a lot of money...Russia is on the move.  

When I was a kid, I always thought the Russian Media was saying their propaganda at gunpoint, out of fear.  I didn't know until I witnessed the same thing happening here that the Media here is part of the same Globalist thinking bunch as the Soviets.   Don't get me wrong...I do 'listen' to them. I just don't believe anything they say, and I don't believe anything they say because I have witnessed myself their prejudices of the right.   

Too much to post...I should write a blog.

Edited December 22, 2018 by joc

[Gromdor]

43 minutes ago, joc said:

Thanks for asking! I'll start with that question and work my way back through your post.  That's just it...I don't!  I like Rush Limbaugh...I can listen to him for a little while...but...and this is very important....but, he doesn't influence my thinking at all.  The reason I like listening to Rush is not because I agree with him.  It is because he agrees with what I think.  What...I...think!  And that is the other huge point I think you are missing.  I am not accusing anyone of being a Communist...that is so McCarthy era...please!  I'm not painting you or anyone else as this or that...it may seem...it does seem to you that I am.  What I am actually trying to point out is he whole Left mindset and where it comes from.  

You say I am painting the Left with a 3 mile brush....that may be true...because the casting of the net is far and wide.  Everything I am saying I did not get from Rush Limbaugh or anyone else.  These are my own thoughts, created by me, based on my questioning of the entire political spectrum...and I have shared it over and over but I will one more time.  It goes like this:

@Golden Duck posted that the Soviet Union was a one trick pony.  So correct he was.  That One Trick was....Drive tanks into a country and say:  Hello Comrades...You are now part of the Soviet Union...you are welcome!   Fast forward:   to Reagan Administration.   To say that Reagan single handedly defeated the USSR ....as many pundits on the Right are prone to say....is false.  The Soviets beat themselves.  Their entire infrastructure was a joke...and I know this from an eye witness.  I don't know the eye witness but I did read his book....Investment Biker.  He was a Wall Street guy who made millions early and his dream was to circumvent the globe on a motorcycle.  As he crossed Siberia and the entire Soviet Union on his motorcycle, he made the observations on their infrastructure, among other things.   He drove by missle silos in the middle of nowhere...abandoned...rusting...etc...and much more.  He also spoke with a number of Soviets who were pretty closed mouthed about saying anything at all...and some who told him they were afraid to speak of anything.

That was really just an aside to say that Russia was falling apart at the seams....Reagan helped them fall apart faster.  But then:

Here are my thoughts...not Rush's or anyone elses.   The Communist Hierarchy found themselves in a unique position.  The KGB headquarters had been trashed.  The 'UNION' was no more.   There were no microphones and bugs in every conversation.  The other trick however that GD didn't mention was their Perseverance.   My thoughts are that the Russians wanted One Union...the Global Soviet Union.  They were well on their way to achieving that when the Cold War ended.  But the reason the Cold War ended was because Reagan opened up the Energy Production of America.  Suddenly the economy started booming...We were building ships, restructuring and pouring a lot of money into the Military. At the same time the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse, Reagan was spouting 'idiocy' like, We need a Star Wars Program...shoot missiles out of the sky with Lazers.   That scared the Soviets  They knew if Reagan could achieve that and they were literally broke and falling apart.  Then Reagan began with Tear Down This Wall...okay, enough ancient history.

What happened next no one talks about.   So, I put on my very own Communist Thinking Cap.  They regrouped.  They realized that the One Trick was over and they had to find a new way of taking America.   That is my thinking that Russia wants to either destroy America or Take America.  Own America.  Regardless of the Cold War being ancient history...the undying perseverance of Global Russia persists.   Flash forward to today.

No longer under the radar...restrengthened, refreshed, with a lot of money...Russia is on the move.  

When I was a kid, I always thought the Russian Media was saying their propaganda at gunpoint, out of fear.  I didn't know until I witnessed the same thing happening here that the Media here is part of the same Globalist thinking bunch as the Soviets.   Don't get me wrong...I do 'listen' to them. I just don't believe anything they say, and I don't believe anything they say because I have witnessed myself their prejudices of the right.   

Too much to post...I should write a blog.

  Back in the 90's when I was taking college classes while still in the military, I had a Critical Reasoning (Logic) class where the professor made everyone listen to Rush Limbaugh.  He told us that the overall context was irrelevant for the purposes of the class as was any political feelings.  He just wanted us to dissect how he presented his arguments.  So we ended up having to listen to him, break down what he said and see if we could identify any logical fallacies.

  I was surprised,  Rush literally used every fallacy in the book during each of his daily sessions.  Stuff like, "It's snowing outside, so global warming is fake." or "The information came from someone who I disbelieve, so it is invalid."  

That class was pretty eye-opening for me.  (Not saying I catch all the logical fallacies when I see them now, but the more blatant ones stand out.) 

[Setton]

4 hours ago, joc said:

Thanks for asking! I'll start with that question and work my way back through your post.  That's just it...I don't!  I like Rush Limbaugh...I can listen to him for a little while...but...and this is very important....but, he doesn't influence my thinking at all.  The reason I like listening to Rush is not because I agree with him.  It is because he agrees with what I think.  What...I...think!  And that is the other huge point I think you are missing.  I am not accusing anyone of being a Communist...that is so McCarthy era...please!  I'm not painting you or anyone else as this or that...it may seem...it does seem to you that I am.  What I am actually trying to point out is he whole Left mindset and where it comes from.  

You say I am painting the Left with a 3 mile brush....that may be true...because the casting of the net is far and wide.  Everything I am saying I did not get from Rush Limbaugh or anyone else.  These are my own thoughts, created by me, based on my questioning of the entire political spectrum...and I have shared it over and over but I will one more time.  It goes like this:

@Golden Duck posted that the Soviet Union was a one trick pony.  So correct he was.  That One Trick was....Drive tanks into a country and say:  Hello Comrades...You are now part of the Soviet Union...you are welcome!   Fast forward:   to Reagan Administration.   To say that Reagan single handedly defeated the USSR ....as many pundits on the Right are prone to say....is false.  The Soviets beat themselves.  Their entire infrastructure was a joke...and I know this from an eye witness.  I don't know the eye witness but I did read his book....Investment Biker.  He was a Wall Street guy who made millions early and his dream was to circumvent the globe on a motorcycle.  As he crossed Siberia and the entire Soviet Union on his motorcycle, he made the observations on their infrastructure, among other things.   He drove by missle silos in the middle of nowhere...abandoned...rusting...etc...and much more.  He also spoke with a number of Soviets who were pretty closed mouthed about saying anything at all...and some who told him they were afraid to speak of anything.

That was really just an aside to say that Russia was falling apart at the seams....Reagan helped them fall apart faster.  But then:

Here are my thoughts...not Rush's or anyone elses.   The Communist Hierarchy found themselves in a unique position.  The KGB headquarters had been trashed.  The 'UNION' was no more.   There were no microphones and bugs in every conversation.  The other trick however that GD didn't mention was their Perseverance.   My thoughts are that the Russians wanted One Union...the Global Soviet Union.  They were well on their way to achieving that when the Cold War ended.  But the reason the Cold War ended was because Reagan opened up the Energy Production of America.  Suddenly the economy started booming...We were building ships, restructuring and pouring a lot of money into the Military. At the same time the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse, Reagan was spouting 'idiocy' like, We need a Star Wars Program...shoot missiles out of the sky with Lazers.   That scared the Soviets  They knew if Reagan could achieve that and they were literally broke and falling apart.  Then Reagan began with Tear Down This Wall...okay, enough ancient history.

What happened next no one talks about.   So, I put on my very own Communist Thinking Cap.  They regrouped.  They realized that the One Trick was over and they had to find a new way of taking America.   That is my thinking that Russia wants to either destroy America or Take America.  Own America.  Regardless of the Cold War being ancient history...the undying perseverance of Global Russia persists.   Flash forward to today.

No longer under the radar...restrengthened, refreshed, with a lot of money...Russia is on the move.  

When I was a kid, I always thought the Russian Media was saying their propaganda at gunpoint, out of fear.  I didn't know until I witnessed the same thing happening here that the Media here is part of the same Globalist thinking bunch as the Soviets.   Don't get me wrong...I do 'listen' to them. I just don't believe anything they say, and I don't believe anything they say because I have witnessed myself their prejudices of the right.   

Too much to post...I should write a blog.

So your knowledge isn't based on anything. 

 

Think we call that fantasy. 

[RoofGardener]

7 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Objectively, president Reek put his short tail between his wobbly legs and got out of Syria because Putin told him so. 

There was zero objective reasons for the Americans to abandon their base, and that base doesn't even have to produce any military effect, as in stopping genocide, it just had to sit there, making the US stay at least a shadow of former self at the international stage. 

A country of the US size cannot simply decide to sink into geopolitical autism - I'm not defending any imperialism, I'm pointing out the sudden destruction of balance will be devastating even for those who half-accidentally but deliberately induced it (Russia).   

Objectively, the white nationalism movement Trump is supposed to lead and Putin is supposed to support is one of those typically Russian, unbelievably cheeky, deeply sarcastic propaganda stories I can't help but laugh at its pathetic victims. Objectively. 

Objectively ? 

On what basis do you define your position as being "objective" ? 

It seems HIGHLY subjective - to the point of derangement - to me HoA.  

[+joc]

29 minutes ago, Setton said:

So your knowledge isn't based on anything. 

 

Think we call that fantasy. 

Your fantasy is only a reflection of your ignorance.  I lived through the eighties...I experienced it all...I know what I'm talking about. If you care to refute any of it do it specifically...otherwise...you are only stating your ignorance on the history of the USSR and the relationship with the rest of the world especially the USA. You seem well versed in the era of  the 1600s but not on the era 40 years ago.  

[+joc]

3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

  Back in the 90's when I was taking college classes while still in the military, I had a Critical Reasoning (Logic) class where the professor made everyone listen to Rush Limbaugh.  He told us that the overall context was irrelevant for the purposes of the class as was any political feelings.  He just wanted us to dissect how he presented his arguments.  So we ended up having to listen to him, break down what he said and see if we could identify any logical fallacies.

  I was surprised,  Rush literally used every fallacy in the book during each of his daily sessions.  Stuff like, "It's snowing outside, so global warming is fake." or "The information came from someone who I disbelieve, so it is invalid."  

That class was pretty eye-opening for me.  (Not saying I catch all the logical fallacies when I see them now, but the more blatant ones stand out.) 

That story actually is quite telling Gromdor.  Most college professors are very Left in their ideologies.  So, that a professor teaching Critical Reasoning would have you listen to Rush and then pick apart what he said is quite telling.  Rush wasn't making a blanket statement such as...it is snowing therefore Global Warming is fake.  He was illustrating the fallacies of Global Warming...but you cannot do that with one statement.  That's what the Left Media does constantly...they don't get Rush, they don't get Trump...they don't get the Right at all because it doesn't fit their narrative.   What happened to you is called...Indoctrination by the Left...which is exactly what I'm talking about when I say...The Soviets spread their ideology across the world.  The seeds of their ideologies began to germinate in America, especially in Hollywood, in the Universities, and in the Democrat side of the American two party system.  

 

[+joc]

7 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

This is going to be a shock to you, but Im not even classifiable as 'a Socialist'. I take things from both Socialism and Capitalism as I see fit, what I agree with. I am not a fanatic of either concept (because thats what you are if you employ strictly Socialist, or strictly Capitalist measures / ideas). My nation's government is like that, we have parties populated across the left / right spectrum; none are purely either side of the fence; all serve themselves with policies coming from both concepts, just at varying levels. This might be one of the main reasons why you so easily regard 'the left' as a single group (Democrats), and the right as a single group (Republicans), which in turn quite possibly paves the way for the left/right black & white views youve been throwing around here.

Youre more or less confirming you dont know too much about communism besides what 'Stalin and Mao have taught you', would it be a reasonable idea to make this a bit of a study (communism and socialism); trying to gain a balanced view of the subject matter (that is to say, not only read content that agrees with your present position)?

You don't shock me.  Most of us are not staunch this or that.  We all are somewhat a product of our environments.  All I'm saying is that there are vast differences between Left and Right ideologies.  Leftist ideologies are a mixture of Communism, socialism, and Capitalism.  But you misunderstand me if you think I think all Democrats are Leftists and all Republicans are Rightists.  In America we have always had a two party system.  But today...it is pretty much a one party system.  Republicans and Democrats....pfffft....in reality there is only one party and it is The Washington Party.  

[Helen of Annoy]

30 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Objectively ? 

On what basis do you define your position as being "objective" ? 

It seems HIGHLY subjective - to the point of derangement - to me HoA.  

On the not being completely stupid basis.

But you probably wouldn't discuss me personally, you surely dropped by to explain why Trump's servitude to Putin and his attempts to destroy Western alliance, are not treasonous. 

[Setton]

34 minutes ago, joc said:

Your fantasy is only a reflection of your ignorance.  I lived through the eighties...I experienced it all...I know what I'm talking about. If you care to refute any of it do it specifically...otherwise...you are only stating your ignorance on the history of the USSR and the relationship with the rest of the world especially the USA. You seem well versed in the era of  the 1600s but not on the era 40 years ago.  

Oh, wow, well if you lived through the 80s you simply must know everything there is to know. 

About something that began over 2000 years ago. Or, by your measure, 200 years ago. 

By your own admission, you don't read other sources, you don't seek to broaden your knowledge. You take your own subjective experience as objective fact. That's either the height of ignorance or delusion. 

[+joc]

7 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Putin is as bad as Trump, only smarter and Russia isn't even a 'lefty' nation.  As I said, you need an upgrade.  The old Soviet days finished some 30 years ago.  The major Party now is called United Russia and they claim Russian Nationalism and Conservatism as their ideology and deny being Left or Right wing.  They're a state run capitalist country, therefore they can't be neither Communists nor Socialists and United Russia, which is Putin's Party and it's been so successful through recent elections, although many dispute the integrity of the results (and how they manage the country's economy and finances), that it runs the nation almost like China's mono system Communist Party. 

So basically, it's more like a fascist regime run by a Party full of crooks with Putin it's dictator and Medvedev and other United Russia affiliates his cronies.

Did you even read what I wrote.  The USSR collapsed under the weight of it's own Communist structure.  the USS of Russia weren't really United, nor were they states...they were countries Russia took by force.  

Note the words emboldened in Red....Lefty...Dictator.  

Ask anyone from the Ukraine if they fear Putin.  Ask anyone in the old Soviet Bloc if they fear Putin.  The Old Dragon never died...it just morphed into a seemingly friendlier Creature.   Lyrics from an old Pink Floyd song, Dogs, off the Animals album:  

You got to be crazy, you gotta have a real need
You gotta sleep on your toes and when you're on the street
You got to be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed
And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight
You gotta strike when the moment is right without thinking
And after a while, you can work on points for style
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to
So that when they turn their backs on you
You'll get the chance to put the knife in

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by joc

[Setton]

30 minutes ago, joc said:

That story actually is quite telling Gromdor.  Most college professors are very Left in their ideologies.  So, that a professor teaching Critical Reasoning would have you listen to Rush and then pick apart what he said is quite telling.  Rush wasn't making a blanket statement such as...it is snowing therefore Global Warming is fake.  He was illustrating the fallacies of Global Warming...but you cannot do that with one statement.  That's what the Left Media does constantly...they don't get Rush, they don't get Trump...they don't get the Right at all because it doesn't fit their narrative.   What happened to you is called...Indoctrination by the Left...which is exactly what I'm talking about when I say...The Soviets spread their ideology across the world.  The seeds of their ideologies began to germinate in America, especially in Hollywood, in the Universities, and in the Democrat side of the American two party system.  

 

Critical thinking is now indoctrination... 

Yeah, that seems right for you. Don't question, don't seek knowledge, just find one person who agrees with you and listen exclusively to their opinions. 

[+joc]

Just now, Setton said:

Critical thinking is now indoctrination... 

Yeah, that seems right for you. Don't question, don't seek knowledge, just find one person who agrees with you and listen exclusively to their opinions. 

Critical thinking is not what you are engaging in Setton.  You are parroting.  What the hell is critical about that.  I haven't read any critical analysis of anything in any of your writings.  

[+joc]

5 minutes ago, Setton said:

Oh, wow, well if you lived through the 80s you simply must know everything there is to know. 

About something that began over 2000 years ago. Or, by your measure, 200 years ago. 

By your own admission, you don't read other sources, you don't seek to broaden your knowledge. You take your own subjective experience as objective fact. That's either the height of ignorance or delusion. 

What I do is critical thinking based on experience, based on knowledge.  Broadening one's knowledge isn't absorbing everything the Media has to say...they have an agenda...they have a narrative...they tell you what they want you to think and leave out what they don't want you to think.   The Right Media is no different than the Left Media in that regard.  You don't know it...but we are all being played by the leftist propaganda machine known as The Media.  They are pervasive, and they are attempting to program all of us in a particular direction that ultimately ends in our own slavedom.  I know you don't see that...you can't...because you are locked into the narrative.    You don't get out much (of the narrative) do you?

[Setton]

8 minutes ago, joc said:

Critical thinking is not what you are engaging in Setton.  You are parroting.  What the hell is critical about that.  I haven't read any critical analysis of anything in any of your writings.  

You were criticising critical thinking as indoctrination. 

That speaks volumes. 

[Setton]

7 minutes ago, joc said:

What I do is critical thinking based on experience, based on knowledge.  Broadening one's knowledge isn't absorbing everything the Media has to say...they have an agenda...they have a narrative...they tell you what they want you to think and leave out what they don't want you to think.   The Right Media is no different than the Left Media in that regard.  You don't know it...but we are all being played by the leftist propaganda machine known as The Media.  They are pervasive, and they are attempting to program all of us in a particular direction that ultimately ends in our own slavedom.  I know you don't see that...you can't...because you are locked into the narrative.    You don't get out much (of the narrative) do you?

No, see, what you do is ignore anything that doesn't align with your own opinion (by your own admission, you only listen to one source, because he agrees with you). That is as far from critical thinking as one can get. 

What I do is take in information from a wide range of sources (left and right) and interpret those sources according to their reliability, reputation and provenance. 

I'm sure your way leads you to be very confident in your opinions. Mine doesn't. It also means I don't live in a fantasy land where I believe I am the only one who knows the truth. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Setton

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

You were criticising critical thinking as indoctrination. 

That speaks volumes. 

No I wasn't...I was saying that using Rush as a tool for teaching Critical Thinking is indoctrination.  Here is a Critical Thinking question for you...Why Rush?  Why not...Stephanopoulos?    

[+joc]

1 minute ago, Setton said:

No, see, what you do is ignore anything that doesn't align with your own opinion (by your own admission, you only listen to one source, because he agrees with you). That is as far from critical thinking as one can get. 

What I do is take in information from a wide range of sources (left and right) and interpret those sources according to their reliability, reputation and provenance. 

I'm sure your way leads you to be very confident in your opinions. Mine doesn't. It also means I don't live in a fantasy land where I believe I am the only one who knows the truth. 

I rarely listen to Rush.  What I do mostly is look at The Drudge Report. I don't really take stock in much any of the news organizations have to say because...as I said...they have a narrative.  I don't need to listen to them...I like to think for myself about what I know is going on in the world...THAT is critical thinking...and yeah...I do have a pretty solid confidence in my opinion of things.  I don't think I am the only one who knows the truth...well...ahem...that depends on what crowd I am standing in...in this forum...I am pretty much solo..the only one who knows the truth...because I'm practically the only one that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing that the Media is anything other than Post Pravda Propaganda.

 

 

[Phaeton80]

3 hours ago, joc said:

I rarely listen to Rush.  What I do mostly is look at The Drudge Report. I don't really take stock in much any of the news organizations have to say because...as I said...they have a narrative.  I don't need to listen to them...I like to think for myself about what I know is going on in the world...THAT is critical thinking...and yeah...I do have a pretty solid confidence in my opinion of things.  I don't think I am the only one who knows the truth...well...ahem...that depends on what crowd I am standing in...in this forum...I am pretty much solo..the only one who knows the truth...because I'm practically the only one that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing that the Media is anything other than Post Pravda Propaganda.

 

So you believe in a Communist conspiracy with intent to create a new world order based on Communism, is that about right? Besides the fact this has very little bearing on why youre wielding these extremized versions of both Communism & Capitalism, as well as you branding anyone not subscribing to such simplification as 'Communist fans'.. Id suppose your theory is based on more concrete information than what you provided here, Id be very interested to see it. Id like to know what Im dealing with here..

Edited December 22, 2018 by Phaeton80

[Black Red Devil]

11 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

 

Dont forget the Chabad Lubavitch connections playing a large role in the political arena.. Central in the Russia / Israeli relations, and in turn, very plausibly, Russia >< Trump.

[Disclaimer: although I do suspect some highly questionable relations between Russian high profile players and Trump (which could undermine Trump on several levels), I am absolutely convinced there is a combined Western effort at more or less full spectrum demonization of Russia - mass promoting her as a clear & present existential threat - in favor of Western geo political aspirations, including but not limited to the ME. And as a sidenote; Trump is no more guilty of treason than the Clintons, Bushes (one of the most treasonous American families to date), nothing new under the sun in that sense]

Yeah, I agree.  Including the part about demonising Russia.  In the past it was Communist ideology threatening freedom and liberty and now it's their political influence and military power threatening our western world while we literally surround them with NATO bases.  It seems we (humans) always need to find an enemy to fight.

[Black Red Devil]

11 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Well, at least they managed to offend Ukrainians enough they founded their own Ukrainian Orthodox Church the other day. It was logical step, Orthodox churches are national, each nation has own Church and patriarch. Since the Christ is one, it would also be logical that the relationships between them are more than friendly, but they aren't. While Vatican can somehow curb local Catholic bishops' political ambitions, there's no authority to curb particular national patriarch from going full politics. (I'm not saying Catholics are better - my local CC figures are politicians of the most blasphemous kind - just that they have the central authority to answer to - which is currently happening to my local Pharisees. tee-hee.)   

Communism clipped their wings but it appears they've returned with full vengeance.