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RavenHawk

The Presidential Carpet

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, aztek said:

lol, if economy now is Obama's achievements than economy under obama is bush achievement, and economy under Clinton is another  bush achievement.

You're kind of right. I mean Obama inherited a mess from Bush who inherited a tinder fire waiting to happen from Willy.

Really though Its not about it being Obama's achievement its simply recognizing the reality that the economy was trending upwards in almost all categories for almost all of Obama's term and that trend was still going up when Trump took over.

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RavenHawk
37 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Don't you get tired of being lied to though?  Taxes are paid by Americans. So Mexico isnt actually going to pay for the wall Americans are.

If you are referring to Trump, he hasn’t lied.  If you are referring about yourself, then yes, I get annoyed at your lies.  Or perhaps I should say mischaracterization of the situation due to TDS.  It may not be your fault.

 

And I really don’t care because it is chump change and a great benefit to the nation.  How many government social benefit programs have there been that have basically been a waste?  Just about every one.  I know better and for Trump this will be an Administrative shift of funds.  It may initially come out of our pockets but it will eventually replenish the treasury.  And if I haven’t made it clear, only losers are crying about where the money is coming from because they have nothing else to throw a tantrum about.  Your own sources show how petty it is.

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Tatetopa
7 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

This is what explains the current market (which is just a portion of the economy).  There are just enough Progressive speculators shooting themselves in the foot to bring down this economy.  I don’t think this will last too much longer.  These people will be looking at their bottom line and realize they need to start working for their shareholders again.  Necessity and common sense will stay-the-course, plus old fashion greed.

They are working for their shareholders and they are greedy.  They sold and took a profit.  They will buy back when the price is right.  

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aztek

they will pay, they already do. and wall is not even up, thousands of refugees in Mexico, creating problems for residents, illegal immigration is down. so less illegals send money to their country, so less money spend in their country,  and once the wall is up, Mexico will feel economic hit.  they'll wish paying for the wall would be only expense. they will lose a lot more.

illegals  cost us 18b in medical cost, and another 400B a year they send to their countries, lets assume only half of those who send money  are illegals, still wall is much cheaper

Edited by aztek

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

If you are referring to Trump, he hasn’t lied.

He said mexico is going to pay for the wall now he's saying the US taxpayers will. He lied to you.

2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

It may initially come out of our pockets but it will eventually replenish the treasury. 

Why ? How? With somewhere around 60% of illegal immigrants simply overstaying VISA's your absolute best case scenario would be a 40% reduction in illegal immigration but lets be honest and meet in the middle at 20%. IMO the environmental factors alone make that a losing investment, thats not even getting to the financial.

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Tatetopa
12 minutes ago, aztek said:

lol, if economy now is Obama's achievements than economy under obama is bush achievement, and economy under Clinton is another  bush achievement.

from the same article

For instance, Trump’s comparison falters if you look at the Dow’s performance between Inauguration Day and Jan. 5 of a president’s second calendar year in office, rather than Election Day.

Starting with Trump’s inauguration, the Dow has risen from 19,827.3 to 25,075.1 -- an increase of 26 percent. That’s impressive.

But it’s not as impressive as its performance during the equivalent period under Obama. Under Obama, the Dow increased from 7,949.1 to 10,572 — a rise of 33 percent.

In fact, the Dow’s rise was even more impressive under Obama if you start measuring at the market’s low point, on March 9, 2009, during the depths of the Great Recession. That day, the Dow closed at 6,547. Between then and Jan. 5 — a 10-month period — the Dow rose by a stunning 61 percent. That’s more than three times faster than Trump’s rise over the same period in his term.

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aztek

lol, obama added almost 9 trillions in debt,  bush only added 3.

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Tatetopa
8 minutes ago, aztek said:

they will pay, they already do. and wall is not even up, thousands of refugees in Mexico, creating problems for residents, illegal immigration is down. so less illegals send money to their country, so less money spend in their country,  and once the wall is up, Mexico will feel economic hit.  they'll wish paying for the wall would be only expense. they will lose a lot more.

illegals  cost us 18b in medical cost, and another 400B a year they send to their countries, lets assume only half of those who send money  are illegals, still wall is much cheaper

What is the logic here?  Illegals cost us $18B a year.  Ok we hurt Mexico  It costs them $18B a year.  Their loss doesn't make up for ours  We both lose $18B a year.  Illegals send half of $400B a year back to their countries $200 B.  Those people are already in this country.  How will a wall stop that?  How about coming down on US employers that illegally hire people without proof of US citizenship or green cards?  That might put a dent in it, and it doesn't take a wall.  The wall is a feel good gesture.  It is a big conservative middle finger to the rest of the world.  A lot of people will say that it is justified and worth it whether it stops the flow of undocumented or not.  Even Schumer and Pelosi agreed with Trump that we need secure borders, they just have different ideas about how to go about it.

 

7 minutes ago, aztek said:

lol, obama added almost 9 trillions in debt,  bush only added 3.

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Donald Trump promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years. Instead, his budgets would add $8.3 trillion in four years. It would increase the U.S. debt to $25 trillion.

Trump’s Business Debt Influences His Approach to U.S. Debt

Trump has a cavalier attitude about the nation’s debt load. During the campaign, he said the nation could "borrow knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal.” He added, “The United States will never default because you can print the money." 

Trump may be thinking about national debt as he does personal debt. A recent Fortune magazine analysis showed Trump's business is $1.11 billion in debt. That includes $846 million owed on five properties. These include Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, and 1290 Avenue of the Americas in New York. It also includes the Trump Hotel in Washington D.C. and 555 California Street in San Francisco. But the income generated by these properties easily pays the annual interest payment. In the business world, Trump's debt is reasonable.

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, aztek said:

lol, obama added almost 9 trillions in debt,  

So has Trump in half the time.

 

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Tatetopa
24 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

He said mexico is going to pay for the wall now he's saying the US taxpayers will. He lied to you.

You don't understand Farmer, Saviors can't lie.

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aztek
Just now, Tatetopa said:

What is the logic here?  Illegals cost us $18B a year.  Ok we hurt Mexico  It costs them $18B a year.  Their loss doesn't make up for ours  We both lose $18B a year.  Illegals send half of $400B a year back to their countries $200 B.  Those people are already in this country.  How will a wall stop that?  How about coming down on US employers that illegally hire people without proof of US citizenship or green cards?  That might put a dent in it, and it doesn't take a wall.  The wall is a feel good gesture.  It is a big conservative middle finger to the rest of the world.  A lot of people will say that it is justified and worth it whether it stops the flow of undocumented or not.  Even Schumer and Pelosi agreed with Trump that we need secure borders, they just have different ideas about how to go about it.

 

 

lol, that just wont happen, its reality,  it's no different than trying to confiscate every gun in usa. or kill all roaches  but liberals love unrealistic solutions, no wonder we have the problems we do. and it's not just about illegals, pretty much everything liberals propose lacks any reality, and i have no doubt the way. Schumer and Pelosi want to do it, it's just as unrealistic.

i mean they have been in power for decades, and constantly failed, but now they have a solution that works??? lmao. yes right,  they can shove their solution. it is not their turn anymore.

just for creation of DHS, he deserves a cell

Edited by aztek

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aztek
Just now, Tatetopa said:

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Donald Trump promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years. Instead, his budgets would add $8.3 trillion in four years. It would increase the U.S. debt to $25 trillion.

 

obama left 19T deficit, it is almost 22 now, so if trump only gets to 25 after 8 years it will be not bad at all, as for promises, obama promised i can keep my doctor,

but it's wrong, the article screwed up simple math,  i mean if they screwed up such simple things, what else they screwed up? or was it an accident at all?

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Farmer77
15 minutes ago, aztek said:

just for creation of DHS, he deserves a cell

Agreed, between the Iraq war, the patriot act and creating the DHS Bush should be in a cell. (oh you did realize DHS was a bushism right?)

Edited by Farmer77
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Gromdor

You know speaking of debt.  Obama increased the debt in the worst of times.  Now everyone is saying the economy is doing great, yet Trump is on track to match or exceed Obama's debt.  So in the best of times, when the economy is great, we are increasing debt.

I don't know about you guys, but if I had an outstanding debt and I got a pay raise, my money would be going towards paying off my debt- not opening up new credit cards.

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Gleckman is basically right but he totally misses the motivation.  This is a Trade War and Trump is the General.  He wields a tariff much better than a carrier task group.  We are being taken advantage of by China with 100s of billions in deficit.  The whole point of the tariff is to break China before we break.  If we do nothing, our economy will collapse.  This is a war we can win if we stay-the-course.  And then we can establish a fair-trade deal as we now have with Canada and Mexico.  And it will increase competition more favorably for everyone.

 

 

 

I like what Gleckman stated: “But even if it isn’t, keep in mind that the government expects to collect $2.4 trillion in tax revenue in 2018--making $22 billion loose change in the fiscal sofa cushions.”  The wall is but loose change to this country and we have progs crying over spilled milk.  This is just more evidence of TDS.

 

Break China by giving them them the Pacific FTA, right.

What a blow to OBOR.

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

 I don't think the "Young Turks"  will want any part of President Trump.  They are the future.  They can sit back and watch McConnell and Schumer and Pelosi and Trump take pot shots at each other  and destroy each other.  Then the stage will be clear for them to take over.  President Trump is damaged goods.  It is not just the progs he has to contend with.  Industry is voting with their feet.  GM is making cars in China to sell in China, partially because of steel and aluminum tariffs, but for other reasons too.  China is a bigger market for new cars and electric cars than the US.  You go where the money is.   Same with Harley Davidson, they are not un-American, they are the capitalist system trying to survive.  Same with nail manufacturers that have to shut down plants  because steel in America is non-competitive on the world market.

 

If  he is using it as a weapon, it will damage us as well as our enemy.  Misplaced to talk about Nukes, that is a conservative solution isn't it?, Progs are globalist socialists remember.  We did not Lose $375 billion dollars in trade to China last year.  We bought $375 billion dollars more in goods than we sold.  That is not the same as losing.  Tariffs don't make US industries more competitive on the world stage, they just cause US consumers to pay more.  If we were competitive, we could sell China  $375 billion dollars more in US goods.  China is China first! President Xi is better at China first! than President Trump is at America first!.

Start making Nikes in USA too.

https://fee.org/articles/a-made-in-america-iphone-would-cost-2-000-studies-show/

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third_eye

Seasons Greetings ...
 

Quote

 

~

[00.04:02]

~

 

 

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, aztek said:

ol, that just wont happen, its reality,  it's no different than trying to confiscate every gun in usa.

The 2nd Amendment protects our right to keep arms.  Is there some protection for businesses that break the law of the land?  Do you not believe in law and order?    What do you think ICE is doing to round up undocum,enteds?  One of the things they are doing is hitting them at work.  Why in the world do you think punishing lawbreakers does not work?

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, aztek said:

pretty much everything liberals propose lacks any reality, and i have no doubt the way. Schumer and Pelosi want to do it, it's just as unrealistic.

Liberals are not proposing this.  The Trump ICE officers are doing this right now.  They can continue to do it for at least another 2 years.  Why do you resist obeying the laws of the land when they target the source of jobs for undocumented workers? Why do you think they come here ?  Not for the love, but for the money. You bet aztek, we can't catch them all.  The lawn mowing guy who hires two helpers out of the Home Depot parking lot  and pays them cash will probably fly under the radar.   The meat packing plant or the trailer manufacturer of the commercial laundry that  has 20-100 working for them  or the restaurant with 5  because they can offer a lower wage and make more profit; they hurt us in two ways.  They don't hire us citizens because they can cheat illegals out of salary and the government out of taxes.  They give people a reason to sneak into the US rather than use the proper channels because they know they can get a job and don't need to go through the proper process.

I suppose that conservatives think that if the wall is built not only will the economy be richer by $400 billion a year but that the drug problem will go away too because, Hey there is a Wall!  Nobody can possibly get drugs through a big tall  wall.

 

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Arbenol

Border wall: 30 feet at a cost of around $8 billion.

image.png.c76fb8d800eafda197a95b53a3bcb863.png

Ladder: 31 feet at a cost of a bit less than $8 billion

image.thumb.jpeg.b4b8c05ff4916b769b12015d516dd5a2.jpeg

 

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third_eye
6 hours ago, Arbenol said:

Ladder: 31 feet at a cost of a bit less than $8 billion

Plus a pretty decent discount if you get more than one and if you order NOW!

~ :yes:

 

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Tatetopa

The President has said the migrant caravan is turning back.  Good news. Good for him he deserves credit for it. What did that take?  Border security!  Not a wall, just the security we could currently muster.  I think that was Schumer and Pelosi's point.  We need border security not a wall,  They all three agreed that we need border security, they were getting along and being friendly. The president set up the interview so that they would say that because he couldn't  say it himself.  The President has to coax his base along to realize that he really just wanted border security all along and that the wall was just a metaphor.  He knew all along that Mexico wouldn't pay for it and there wouldn't be a wall. Part of his long range plan. He is going to let people down gently. 

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Gromdor
6 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

The President has said the migrant caravan is turning back.  Good news. Good for him he deserves credit for it. What did that take?  Border security!  Not a wall, just the security we could currently muster.  I think that was Schumer and Pelosi's point.  We need border security not a wall,  They all three agreed that we need border security, they were getting along and being friendly. The president set up the interview so that they would say that because he couldn't  say it himself.  The President has to coax his base along to realize that he really just wanted border security all along and that the wall was just a metaphor.  He knew all along that Mexico wouldn't pay for it and there wouldn't be a wall. Part of his long range plan. He is going to let people down gently. 

Eh, I'm not so sure:  https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/americas/mexico-caravan-trump/index.html

Sounding like the same amount gave up on waiting in line and hopped the wall (1100) as went back home (1100).  The remaining 3400 are still waiting in line.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, I'm not so sure:  https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/11/americas/mexico-caravan-trump/index.html

Sounding like the same amount gave up on waiting in line and hopped the wall (1100) as went back home (1100).  The remaining 3400 are still waiting in line.

Well sure Gromdor if you want to quote facts go ahead. I got my information from a higher source, the President.   Kellyanne would remind you  that those are MSM facts and that the President can draw on alternative facts, a more fluid source, adaptable to changing situations..

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Gromdor
4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well sure Gromdor if you want to quote facts go ahead. I got my information from a higher source, the President.   Kellyanne would remind you  that those are MSM facts and that the President can draw on alternative facts, a more fluid source, adaptable to changing situations..

True that.  He gets those secret briefings to read that the rest of us don't.

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