Shootings in Strasbourg, France

[zep73]

Right now the French city of Strasbourg is in high alert, due to shootings.

It's to early to name a cause, but one cannot help but fear that it's another terror attack

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46530265

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/11/strasbourg-shooting-in-eastern-france?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

[spartan max2]

Dam, poor France  . They have a lot going on right now.

Best wishes from across the ocean

Edited December 11, 2018 by spartan max2

[Duke Wellington]

The police have him corned right now and there is a gun battle going on.

4 dead, loads wounded.

[+OverSword]

Opened fire near a Christmas market.  Gee, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be?

[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Opened fire near a Christmas market.  Gee, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be?

Yeah... I wonder how many will have to die before the real problem is acknowledged and the clear message is sent that if war is necessary, war will be fought with no quarter.  The Fundamentalists are like every other evil regime of the past.  They will use power, fear and deception to cause the "others" to SUBMIT.  Submission seems to be the essence of the religion, FORCED submission if necessary.  

[zep73]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Yeah... I wonder how many will have to die before the real problem is acknowledged and the clear message is sent that if war is necessary, war will be fought with no quarter.  The Fundamentalists are like every other evil regime of the past.  They will use power, fear and deception to cause the "others" to SUBMIT.  Submission seems to be the essence of the religion, FORCED submission if necessary.  

Never make it "them and us". That's what they are aiming for. That's the whole point of terrorism.

They want to start a holy war. The means to do it is making us fear and hate all muslims.

[Duke Wellington]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

Yeah... I wonder how many will have to die before the real problem is acknowledged and the clear message is sent that if war is necessary, war will be fought with no quarter.  The Fundamentalists are like every other evil regime of the past.  They will use power, fear and deception to cause the "others" to SUBMIT.  Submission seems to be the essence of the religion, FORCED submission if necessary.  

We dont know its a Jihadist yet, it might be a rioter.

[+and-then]

29 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Dam, poor France  . They have a lot going on right now.

Best wishes from across the ocean

While I feel sympathy for the French who are powerless over the insanity of their government, I also recognize that unless they find a backbone and stand against their government and this threat, things will only get worse.  This is a civilizational threat and people who ignore it or worse, make excuses for it are, IMO, fools.  

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, sci-nerd said:

Never make it "them and us". That's what they are aiming for. That's the whole point of terrorism.

They want to start a holy war. The means to do it is making us fear and hate all muslims.

I've heard this logic often and the question I have is, how many innocent, harmless dead are you willing to accept before fighting back?  I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's a genuine question because one side in this little conflict has been doing nearly all the killing of innocents.  There is NO doubt about why they act.  They very clearly explain their goals and means.  Yes, fanning the flames of hatred toward 1.5 billion people, regardless of their involvement would be counterproductive, even insane.  But the same can be said of simply accepting the casualties and refusing to publicly acknowledge the cause.  Whether western minds want to accept the truth or not, we ARE in a war against Islamic fundamentalists.  I would never accept the idea of randomly killing anyone over their faith but I WOULD be willing to vote for the expulsion of people who meet in mosques OR churches where hatred and forced submission of others is taught.  Any time such evil is excused or ignored, it grows. ALWAYS.  

[+and-then]

10 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

We dont know its a Jihadist yet, it might be a rioter.

True.  But why would a rioter choose such a target?  I'd think a rioter might go after a government office or official.

[zep73]

2 minutes ago, and then said:

I've heard this logic often and the question I have is, how many innocent, harmless dead are you willing to accept before fighting back?  I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's a genuine question because one side in this little conflict has been doing nearly all the killing of innocents.  There is NO doubt about why they act.  They very clearly explain their goals and means.  Yes, fanning the flames of hatred toward 1.5 billion people, regardless of their involvement would be counterproductive, even insane.  But the same can be said of simply accepting the casualties and refusing to publicly acknowledge the cause.  Whether western minds want to accept the truth or not, we ARE in a war against Islamic fundamentalists.  I would never accept the idea of randomly killing anyone over their faith but I WOULD be willing to vote for the expulsion of people who meet in mosques OR churches where hatred and forced submission of others is taught.  Any time such evil is excused or ignored, it grows. ALWAYS.  

You are absolutely right. But keep the focus at the extremists, who plan and commit the attacks, not normal people who partially share their religion.

[zep73]

AP reports shooter as wounded, but still at large.

Edited December 11, 2018 by sci-nerd

[Duke Wellington]

26 minutes ago, and then said:

I've heard this logic often and the question I have is, how many innocent, harmless dead are you willing to accept before fighting back?  I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's a genuine question because one side in this little conflict has been doing nearly all the killing of innocents.  There is NO doubt about why they act.  They very clearly explain their goals and means.  Yes, fanning the flames of hatred toward 1.5 billion people, regardless of their involvement would be counterproductive, even insane.  But the same can be said of simply accepting the casualties and refusing to publicly acknowledge the cause.  Whether western minds want to accept the truth or not, we ARE in a war against Islamic fundamentalists.  I would never accept the idea of randomly killing anyone over their faith but I WOULD be willing to vote for the expulsion of people who meet in mosques OR churches where hatred and forced submission of others is taught.  Any time such evil is excused or ignored, it grows. ALWAYS.  

I agree, I wish they would dispatch 200 bombers and bomb ISIS off the face off the Earth.

I think immigrants should be monitored in secret. If they express any kind of agreement with terrorism then send the soldiers around, line them up, and shoot them. Problem solved.

Edited December 11, 2018 by RabidMongoose

[zep73]

Reuters say perpetrator is 29 year old extremist from the "watch list". Not confirmed by police though.

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

In my opinion it's not Terrorism it' just another sick individual.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Avalanche said:

In my opinion it's not Terrorism it' just another sick individual.

That's entirely possible, also.  I would say we can just wait for more details but in France, I doubt they'll be made public if he was a Fundy.  

[zep73]

Male Thai tourist age 30 among casualties. Shot in head. Resuscitation attempted but failed. Wife in shock.

Local witness says shootings happened 3 or 4 times. Much screaming.

Edited December 12, 2018 by sci-nerd

[zep73]

French police has confirmed 29 year old suspect as a "Sûreté de l'État" listed possible threat.

They went to arrest him this tuesday morning, but he was not home.
They found traces of explosives, says spokes person of French police Stephane Morisse to AP.

A freelance journalist has reported seeing a soldier shooting and shouting "Go home! Go home!"

Edited December 12, 2018 by sci-nerd

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I agree, I wish they would dispatch 200 bombers and bomb ISIS off the face off the Earth.

I think immigrants should be monitored in secret. If they express any kind of agreement with terrorism then send the soldiers around, line them up, and shoot them. Problem solved.

LOL... 

[Likely Guy]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

Opened fire near a Christmas market.  Gee, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be?

Please speculate.

[+susieice]

I'm seeing 3 dead, 12 wounded- 6 of them seriously. The suspect has a criminal record both in Germany and France. He has known criminal association with a terrorist group and attempted assassination. My heart hurts for the people of France. They are going through so much.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/1-dead-3-injured-shooting-strasbourg-france-german-border-n946656

[+susieice]

CBS is reporting 4 dead in their evening update.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/christmas-market-deadly-shooting-strasbourg-france-today-2018-11-12-live-updates/

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Likely Guy said:

Please speculate.

To what purpose?  Those who are interested in this topic either understand and agree with his post or they do not.  It would just devolve into the same old boring demand that anyone who speaks of Islam in any way that is negative MUST genuflect at the altar of "#NOT ALL MUSLIMS.  I think people who still use that tactic are boring.  They are making an argument where there IS NO argument.  How about we do something novel and actually punish those people who support and fund these animals?  Pass laws that shun their attitudes from civil society.  There really ISN'T any third way with these fanatics.  They'll never be convinced to change and they'll never stop until they are defeated.   I'm perfectly willing to leave every Muslim in the world in peace so long as they do the same for me.  

[SHaYap]

5 minutes ago, and then said:

To what purpose?  Those who are interested in this topic either understand and agree with his post or they do not.  It would just devolve into the same old boring demand that anyone who speaks of Islam in any way that is negative MUST genuflect at the altar of "#NOT ALL MUSLIMS.  I think people who still use that tactic are boring.  They are making an argument where there IS NO argument.  How about we do something novel and actually punish those people who support and fund these animals?  Pass laws that shun their attitudes from civil society.  There really ISN'T any third way with these fanatics.  They'll never be convinced to change and they'll never stop until they are defeated.   I'm perfectly willing to leave every Muslim in the world in peace so long as they do the same for me.  

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NOt so much what you say there but how you are saying what you said ...

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And, lo! my infancy died long since, and I live. But Thou, Lord, who for ever livest, and in whom nothing dies: for before the foundation of the worlds, and before all that can be called "before," Thou art, and art God and Lord of all which Thou hast created: in Thee abide, fixed for ever, the first causes of all things unabiding; and of all things changeable, the springs abide in Thee unchangeable: and in Thee live the eternal reasons of all things unreasoning and temporal.

Say, Lord, to me, Thy suppliant; say, all-pitying, to me, Thy pitiable one; say, did my infancy succeed another age of mine that died before it? was it that which I spent within my mother's womb? for of that I have heard somewhat, and have myself seen women with child? and what before that life again, O God my joy, was I any where or any body? For this have I none to tell me, neither father nor mother, nor experience of others, nor mine own memory. Dost Thou mock me for asking this, and bid me praise Thee and acknowledge Thee, for that I do know?

    (Confessions of St Augustine, Book  1)

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You are fooling nobody with your cleansing of the all for the misdeeds of the few ... Jesus should be disappointed with you

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[+and-then]

9 minutes ago, third_eye said:

NOt so much what you say there but how you are saying what you said ...

This indicates a bias that you hold.  I accept your words exactly as you relay them.  I try my best to understand your meanings but your semantics confuse me at times.  I'm certainly not a complex, eloquent man.  I can be quite cutting and crude when I'm agitated but I do my best to speak the truth and to do it plainly.  If a person who believes in a different God or a different way to serve God allows me the same freedom, I will never have a problem with him.  Like most other imperfect humans, however, when a religion actually teaches its adherents that everyone else is misguided and that they should be coerced into a different path (for their own good) or be punished and show obeisance, I will resist that to the best of my ability.  NO man has the right to choose for another which God he must serve.  The decision to believe is personal.  No one has a monopoly on truth.