Shootings in Strasbourg, France

[Dark_Grey]

1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

The thing is, is that the law abiding gun owners aren't the ones violating the law.

As a proud gun owner and advocate, I fully agree. For the sake of the joke, though, just pretend I don't know any better.

[+susieice]

France has ruled it an act of terrorism.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/world/europe/france-strasbourg-shooting.html

Four people close to him have been detained but the shooter has not been captured yet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/world/europe/france-strasbourg-shooting.html

[+susieice]

The BBC is reporting the shooter's mother, father and two brothers were held overnight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46535552

[RavenHawk]

 

20 hours ago, and then said:

20 hours ago, sci-nerd said:

Never make it "them and us". That's what they are aiming for. That's the whole point of terrorism.

They want to start a holy war. The means to do it is making us fear and hate all muslims.

I've heard this logic often and the question I have is, how many innocent, harmless dead are you willing to accept before fighting back?  I'm not trying to be offensive.  It's a genuine question because one side in this little conflict has been doing nearly all the killing of innocents.  There is NO doubt about why they act.  They very clearly explain their goals and means.  Yes, fanning the flames of hatred toward 1.5 billion people, regardless of their involvement would be counterproductive, even insane.  But the same can be said of simply accepting the casualties and refusing to publicly acknowledge the cause.  Whether western minds want to accept the truth or not, we ARE in a war against Islamic fundamentalists.  I would never accept the idea of randomly killing anyone over their faith but I WOULD be willing to vote for the expulsion of people who meet in mosques OR churches where hatred and forced submission of others is taught.  Any time such evil is excused or ignored, it grows. ALWAYS.  

We can’t just ignore it either or we end up imploding.  That is what you see with these politicians that open their borders to Hijrah.  And these countries that try to hide the violence caused by this mass migration and prevent their people from talking about it (calling it hate speech).  When it comes to preserving your borders, language, and culture, you better believe that it is us verse them!  This is what Islam is designed to do – to be.  To usurp and replace the indigenous culture.  That’s how it spreads.  If you don’t want it to spread then you have to fight it and in many cases with extreme prejudice.  You can’t help but to use a broad brush.  That doesn’t mean to put every Muslim to the sword.  It means having more vigilance. 

 

There are millions of assimilated Muslims that are loyal to their country.  But Islam is borderless, one gives their loyalty to the ideology.  So if you give your loyalty to your nation, you are a hypocrite in the faith and that ties your fate to the unbelievers.  Shirk is the greatest sin in Islam worthy of death.  But even in this, the hypocrite carries the seed of Islam within themselves.  For hypocrites, they must make a daily conscious decision not to follow in the Medinan Creed but that does not carry over to offspring.  All too often it is the youth of the hypocrite that hears the call.  It is very appealing.  How does one fight that?  How does one counter the 74% of Muslims that believe in Sharia?  That includes many hypocrites.  It’s a gray area that we cannot allow ourselves to become paralyzed by. 

 

How much longer until we see these attacks expand out to include culture as targets?  I fear for the great works of Mankind all around Europe.  They are all in danger as the Buddhas of Bamiyan or Palmyra have been.  I cringe to think of “The Last Supper” or “The David” laying in rubble.  That is a crime greater than the Holocaust.  But that is where it is all heading to.  In a previous post, I make reference to Nostradamus, V,68.  What’s interesting is the reference in the first sentence of Century V reads “Before the coming of Celtic ruin,”.  You wonder what that means?  In general, ‘Celtic’ refers to the native peoples of Europe, in very much the same way we refer to the native peoples here as ‘Native American’.  More specifically, it refers to greater France.  I don’t think Macron is done so I don’t think we have seen the end of the riots and throw in Hijrah and it’s just adding fuel to the fire.  It's a perfect storm.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

More specifically, it refers to greater France.  I don’t think Macron is done so I don’t think we have seen the end of the riots and throw in Hijrah and it’s just adding fuel to the fire.  It's a perfect storm.

In the end, human beings that are unwilling to fight and die for freedom do not deserve it.  Freedom is not a natural state for humanity and I think the western nations have become too "civilized" to be willing to be as brutal as is necessary.  You could choke on the irony of that.  A so-called advanced civilization being destroyed by a literally barbaric culture, without even attempting to resist.  Without even UNDERSTANDING the NEED to defend themselves.  The mind boggles.  

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

9 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Actually, its a very successful form of warfare.

The problem (especially if it escalates into an insurgency) is its very hard to tell who the terrorists are beforehand. They look like civilians and if they are trained then they know how to escape detection when getting arms and making bombs.

Terror is to spread terror and it sure does. If it is larger than one or two nutters but a cause followed by a lot of people it is actually undefeatable. There isn't one example from military history of an insurgency actually being put down.

What happens is they either end up defeating their target (eventually) or their target gives them what they want (in this case letting a Caliphate exist).

Ah maybe outside the western world. why do you think it's successful ? I dont think Terrorist have won much or anything or succseeded in any of their goals in the western world. If you look at IRA for example how far did they reach ?. The IS want to kill anyone who is not a muslim and to stop our way of living and they want to strike fear and hatred. I find it very hard for them to reach their goals. what happens after an attack people might be afraid and avoid that place for a short time afterwards but then slowly life get back to normal and it's business as usual, Look at London and all the bombings there. 

[Duke Wellington]

2 minutes ago, Avalanche said:

Ah maybe outside the western world. why do you think it's successful ? I dont think Terrorist have won much or anything or succseeded in any of their goals in the western world. If you look at IRA for example how far did they reach ?. The IS want to kill anyone who is not a muslim and to stop our way of living and they want to strike fear and hatred. I find it very hard for them to reach their goals. what happens after an attack people might be afraid and avoid that place for a short time afterwards but then slowly life get back to normal and it's business as usual, Look at London and all the bombings there. 

The IRA weren't beaten, we signed the Good Friday agreement in which we acknowledged Irelands claim on Northern Ireland. In military history their isn't a single example.

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, and then said:

In the end, human beings that are unwilling to fight and die for freedom do not deserve it.  Freedom is not a natural state for humanity and I think the western nations have become too "civilized" to be willing to be as brutal as is necessary.  You could choke on the irony of that.  A so-called advanced civilization being destroyed by a literally barbaric culture, without even attempting to resist.  Without even UNDERSTANDING the NEED to defend themselves.  The mind boggles.  

I totally agree except for one thing.  I think freedom is indeed Man’s natural state.  I just think that he is too easily distracted.  He just becomes too tolerant and long-suffering to his environment as Jefferson wrote of and there are those that take advantage of that and abuse it.  This is why the Republicans in Congress never seem to stand up for those that elected them.  Progs have no problems, the irony comes in that they spend all their ability to fight, trying to enslave everyone else.  Our natural state is so fragile that as Reagan stated, it is not passed on in the blood stream.  It is a concept of enlightenment.  Therefore, it must be fought for continually.  Islam fights for itself, why can’t we?

[Black Red Devil]

1 hour ago, and then said:

In the end, human beings that are unwilling to fight and die for freedom do not deserve it.  Freedom is not a natural state for humanity and I think the western nations have become too "civilized" to be willing to be as brutal as is necessary.  You could choke on the irony of that.  A so-called advanced civilization being destroyed by a literally barbaric culture, without even attempting to resist.  Without even UNDERSTANDING the NEED to defend themselves.  The mind boggles.  

Apart from the tragic events that occur from time to time, like this one, it's a tad over dramatic to claim western civilisation is being literally destroyed don't you think? 

[zep73]

1 hour ago, and then said:

In the end, human beings that are unwilling to fight and die for freedom do not deserve it.  Freedom is not a natural state for humanity and I think the western nations have become too "civilized" to be willing to be as brutal as is necessary.  You could choke on the irony of that.  A so-called advanced civilization being destroyed by a literally barbaric culture, without even attempting to resist.  Without even UNDERSTANDING the NEED to defend themselves.  The mind boggles.  

The only threat to our freedom is from our own intolerance and from politicians feeding on fear and populism.

France, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Denmark so far has banned the veil. It might prevent muslim women from walking around in body-tents, but it also violates basic liberties for everyone else in those countries.

The law telling you what you cannot wear?! If anything is anti freedom it's stuff like that!

[Black Red Devil]

26 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

The only threat to our freedom is from our own intolerance and from politicians feeding on fear and populism.

France, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Denmark so far has banned the veil. It might prevent muslim women from walking around in body-tents, but it also violates basic liberties for everyone else in those countries.

The law telling you what you cannot wear?! If anything is anti freedom it's stuff like that!

Populism is the new thing.  Trump started it and now it's spreading through Europe thanks to the conservative fear of alternative dogmas spread by mainly Right wing media.  I don't totally blame people for electing populists who promise to deliver what people voted for but it's still to be seen if these promises come to fruition and if so are there any impacts on the democratic rights of ALL citizens?  While populists aren't necessarily conservatives or fascists they may have to follow or implement policies that are.  That's where the danger is.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Black Red Devil

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

The IRA weren't beaten, we signed the Good Friday agreement in which we acknowledged Irelands claim on Northern Ireland. In military history their isn't a single example.

More or less status quo i knew they did that and made so called "sease fire" it's going to be interesting now with brexit and all it might start things again.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Avalanche

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, sci-nerd said:

The only threat to our freedom is from our own intolerance and from politicians feeding on fear and populism.

France, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Denmark so far has banned the veil. It might prevent muslim women from walking around in body-tents, but it also violates basic liberties for everyone else in those countries.

The law telling you what you cannot wear?! If anything is anti freedom it's stuff like that!

The idea that "freedom" must be absolute and that no one's rights are superseded by the security of all is, frankly, a childish dream.  We live in a real world where a militant group of people with a shared culture desire to end our way of life and to subjugate us under THEIR plans and designs.  The fact that you deny this is immaterial.  When this party gets started in earnest, people will need to decide whether to "submit" or fight.  Live on your knees if you like.  I'd much rather die on my feet, if die I must.  And as to the "law telling you what you cannot wear", it happens every day in America.  If you don't believe it then try strolling into a bank with a hoodie and sunglasses or into a high-end drinking or dining establishment in cut-off blue jeans and no shirt.  My understanding of Islam is limited but I don't believe there is any codified stricture demanding women wear the veil.  THAT is cultural.  When any sub-culture tries to nullify the rights of the rest of a multicultural nation then they need to be yanked back hard.  Don't be silly, man.  Heads up!  Those "freedoms" you are indignant about come at a personal cost eventually.  If you aren't willing to shed your own blood to defend them, you don't deserve them and they WILL be taken from you.  

[zep73]

1 minute ago, and then said:

Live on your knees if you like.

Never. Not to anyone. Foreign or domestic. And I'll fight to the death to preserve absolute personal freedom.

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Avalanche said:

It's interesting that Terrorism still exist since  it's a tactic that is futile to use because it only work during a short time, if it works at all.

Terrorism is only effective to the extent that a people lack courage and the will to overcome it.  I once saw a photo of a female IDF soldier with an M4 carbine in one hand and an ice cream cone in the other.  She and a couple of friends had just repelled an attack by an Islamist fundamentalist.  They KILLED his ass and never even dropped their sweet treat.  Deciding to never give in and to NEVER submit is the only way to prevail in this war between cultures.  Make them pay in blood for every attempt to crush the will of free people.  Eventually, they'll get the message or they'll bleed themselves into such a weakened state that they can no longer make war.  

[+and-then]

13 hours ago, Beckys_Mom said:

They will release his name when they arrest him or shoot him  ( depending on whether or not there is a shoot out ) Either way, if and when it happens, then, they will release his name ...They always do 

Yep, kicking and screaming and making excuses all the way.  They seem to have decided corporately that multiculturalism is worth the butcher's bill, no matter how high it becomes.

WELCOME BACK!   

[+and-then]

8 minutes ago, sci-nerd said:

Never. Not to anyone. Foreign or domestic. And I'll fight to the death to preserve absolute personal freedom.

On this, we can find common ground.  We just disagree on the source of the threat.  I'll point out that when a person hears hoofbeats, a Zebra isn't the first animal that comes to mind.  Same with grouping Right-wing types with Islamic Fundies.  It's all about the numbers.  

[+and-then]

12 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

Actually, its a very successful form of warfare.

The problem (especially if it escalates into an insurgency) is its very hard to tell who the terrorists are beforehand. They look like civilians and if they are trained then they know how to escape detection when getting arms and making bombs.

Terror is to spread terror and it sure does. If it is larger than one or two nutters but a cause followed by a lot of people it is actually undefeatable. There isn't one example from military history of an insurgency actually being put down.

What happens is they either end up defeating their target (eventually) or their target gives them what they want (in this case letting a Caliphate exist).

Exactly.  It will come down to a test of wills and a measure of how strong the west's people value their freedom.  At some point, the "moderate" Muslims are going to have to make a choice to stand against the insanity and evil of the fundamentalists or get caught in a crossfire.  That choice is on them.  If they do not stand against the evil then they are by definition, complicit with it by giving cover to the crazies.  The most sane and least aggressive means to combat this scourge in the west is to monitor the messages being relayed in the Mosques and expelling or imprisoning anyone who is calling for violence or sedition against the government of the host country.  No single group's rights take precedence over the laws and traditions of a nation.  

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

9 hours ago, and then said:

Exactly.  It will come down to a test of wills and a measure of how strong the west's people value their freedom.  At some point, the "moderate" Muslims are going to have to make a choice to stand against the insanity and evil of the fundamentalists or get caught in a crossfire.  That choice is on them.  If they do not stand against the evil then they are by definition, complicit with it by giving cover to the crazies.  The most sane and least aggressive means to combat this scourge in the west is to monitor the messages being relayed in the Mosques and expelling or imprisoning anyone who is calling for violence or sedition against the government of the host country.  No single group's rights take precedence over the laws and traditions of a nation.  

Yes i agree incitement is a crime we need to inform and educate to make it less lucrative for people to join and fight for their cause. 

[RavenHawk]

15 hours ago, Avalanche said:

Ah maybe outside the western world. why do you think it's successful ? I dont think Terrorist have won much or anything or succseeded in any of their goals in the western world.

How much time do you give them before it’s considered a failure?  This is a generational endeavor.  Has been for 1400 years.  Just studying how it spread in just its first few hundred years is enough to see where it is going today.

 

If you look at IRA for example how far did they reach ?.

They got pretty far.  They have recognition.  They have not been defeated but are seeking other fronts for the moment.

 

The IS want to kill anyone who is not a muslim and to stop our way of living and they want to strike fear and hatred. I find it very hard for them to reach their goals. what happens after an attack people might be afraid and avoid that place for a short time afterwards but then slowly life get back to normal and it's business as usual, Look at London and all the bombings there. 

They don’t want to kill everyone, just enough of those that present a stiff opposition (this includes the hypocrite and apostate).  Sheep are a valuable source of revenue and manpower.  No need to waste it all when a demonstration of dominance will do.  They do that by dividing the people with fear.  At this rate and if nothing significantly changes, Europe could be majority Muslim by 2050.  Image what it will be in 1 or 2 hundred years?  All European culture will disappear by then.  The only hope for Europe will be the Coq.  I don’t think it is his time yet and will appear long after we are gone.

[Dark_Grey]

Can someone confirm or deny the use rounds on the yellow vest protesters? I watched a dark video the other day of some protesters running full tilt then dropping to the ground like they were shot. It would be easy to dismiss some of those videos were it not for Reuters filming snipers on the roofs of buildings overlooking the protesters.

Spoiler

LiveLeak - Reuters sniper footage (44 sec, SFW)

Quote

Reuters confirms filming a member of the armed forces, installed on one of the roofs of buildings bordering the Champs-Elysees, during the demonstration of yellow vests, Saturday, December 1. However, neither the Ministry of the Interior nor the Prefecture of Police recognize having used a shooter.

In the footage, you can the yellow vested protesters down on the street below, confirming the location and date (not to mention the obvious French landmarks). Note the sniper's mate has a spotting scope (maybe camera?) set up for long range shots - these guys were not there to supervise or "observe". This is going from 0 - 60 real fast. 

[toast]

Strasbourg attack suspect killed by police

[Golden Duck]

6 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Can someone confirm or deny the use rounds on the yellow vest protesters? I watched a dark video the other day of some protesters running full tilt then dropping to the ground like they were shot. It would be easy to dismiss some of those videos were it not for Reuters filming snipers on the roofs of buildings overlooking the protesters.

  Hide contents

LiveLeak - Reuters sniper footage (44 sec, SFW)

In the footage, you can the yellow vested protesters down on the street below, confirming the location and date (not to mention the obvious French landmarks). Note the sniper's mate has a spotting scope (maybe camera?) set up for long range shots - these guys were not there to supervise or "observe". This is going from 0 - 60 real fast. 

I find cries if false flag a bit guard to believe. But, I'm wondering why it hasn't been suggested here. 

[odas]

On 12/12/2018 at 5:50 PM, Avalanche said:

The IS want to kill anyone who is not a muslim 

Yet, 90% of murdered, captured and raped by IS ARE muslims?

Where does this fit in with " muslims and Islam are bad"?

I know, you did not say that, I am just wondering about the "logic" some ppl have on UM.

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

6 hours ago, odas said:

Yet, 90% of murdered, captured and raped by IS ARE muslims?

Where does this fit in with " muslims and Islam are bad"?

I know, you did not say that, I am just wondering about the "logic" some ppl have on UM.

They want to kill almost any one who is not coincidered a real muslim in their eyes and i was also referring to the attacks in Europe which they have clamed now of course they would like to clame most of the attacks to strike fear in people.