Inclusivity, and rejection of discrimination

[RoofGardener]

A major symposium was held yesterday by the Muslim World League entitled “International Conference on Islamic unity — the perils of labeling and exclusion". In it, Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, who is also head of the MWL Supreme Council, highlighted the teachings of Islam that categorically reject all forms of discrimination.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1419811/saudi-arabia

ALL forms of discrimination, mind you !

The conference was held in Mecca. A city that forbids non-muslims from entering it, on pain of death. 

"Hmmm........"

 

[SHaYap]

29 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The conference was held in Mecca. A city that forbids non-muslims from entering it, on pain of death. 

Not exactly 'on pain of death' but it is an age old tradition ...

Quote

 

~

Tabernacle

The Holy of Holies was covered by a veil, and no one was allowed to enter except the High Priest, and even he could only enter once a year on Yom Kippur (the day of atonement), to offer the blood of sacrifice and incense before the mercy seat. The Bible reports that in the wilderness, on the day that the tabernacle was first raised up, the cloud of the Lord covered the tabernacle (Exodus 40:33-40:34). There are other times that this was recorded, and instructions were given that the Lord would appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat (kapporet), and at that time the priests should not enter into the tabernacle (Leviticus 16:2). According to the Hebrew Bible, the Holy of Holies contained the Ark of the Covenant with representation of Cherubim. Upon completion of the dedication of the Tabernacle, the Voice of God spoke to Moses "from between the Cherubim" (Numbers 7:89).

The area could be entered only by the High Priest on Yom Kippur after sanctifying himself.

~

• wiki link

 

~

At least the common folks and pilgrims are allowed in the case of Mecca ... it is a place of worship, its not like Vegas or Disneyland, if you are not there to worship why would you even want to make a big deal about visiting Mecca ? Not to mention security concerns, you as a traveler might inadvertently, or not, behave in some offensive manner that may have detrimental repercussions, so for your sake, and the sake of your safety as it were.

~

 

Quote

 

~

Comparison of Mecca with cantonment areas

This is the most common answer I found – non-Muslims are not allowed in Mecca because it is a holy sanctuary. One has to qualify certain requirements to be there and be a believer. Understand it like this: civilians are allowed in cantonment areas or high security areas. You need a certain permit to be there. It’s the same with Mecca. In this case the permit is being a Muslim. Also please note that Mecca as a city has no significance. The only significance is the presence of Kaaba.

~

• speaking tree link

 

~

If you want to go about telling Muslims how to practice better Islamic traditions, the least you can do is to not be so disgracefully ignorant to such the extent that you are practically embarrassing your fellow human kind, not to mention the UM Forum as a whole

~

 

 

[RoofGardener]

45 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Not exactly 'on pain of death' but it is an age old tradition ...

~

At least the common folks and pilgrims are allowed in the case of Mecca ... it is a place of worship, its not like Vegas or Disneyland, if you are not there to worship why would you even want to make a big deal about visiting Mecca ? Not to mention security concerns, you as a traveler might inadvertently, or not, behave in some offensive manner that may have detrimental repercussions, so for your sake, and the sake of your safety as it were.

~

 

~

If you want to go about telling Muslims how to practice better Islamic traditions, the least you can do is to not be so disgracefully ignorant to such the extent that you are practically embarrassing your fellow human kind, not to mention the UM Forum as a whole

~

 

 

A curious mixture of evasion and ad-hominem from Third Eye there. The fact remains that it is a sublime irony to be debating "inclusion" in a City that excludes everyone who is not a Muslim !

Edited December 13, 2018 by RoofGardener

[SHaYap]

10 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

A curious mixture of evasion and ad-hominem from Third Eye there. The fact remains that it is a sublime irony to be debating "inclusion" in a City that excludes everyone who is not a Muslim !

Your shallowness of logic here betrays yourself of much the same self aggrandizement of one Matthew Hopkins, self proclaimed Witch Finder General extraordinaire ...

~

Quote

 

~

Matthew Hopkins, Witch-Finder General - Historic UK

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/.../Matthew-Hopkins-WitchFinder-General/

Matthew Hopkins, Witch-Finder General. by Ellen Castelow. The kingdoms of Scotland and England were united in 1603, when King James VI of Scotland also ...

 

~

The Historical Significance of Matthew Hopkins: England's 'Witchfinder ...

 

https://www.luthercollege.edu/.../the-historical-significance-of-matthew-hopkins-engla...

The Historical Significance of Matthew Hopkins: England's “Witchfinder General”. By Shana Hay. One of the most remarkable episodes to come out of the ...

~

 

 

~

 

ad-hominem ? you'd do well to first reconsider your proclamations as tabula rasa before you roll off any such accusations across you slithery tongue

 

~

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

A major symposium was held yesterday by the Muslim World League entitled “International Conference on Islamic unity — the perils of labeling and exclusion". In it, Saudi Arabia’s Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, who is also head of the MWL Supreme Council, highlighted the teachings of Islam that categorically reject all forms of discrimination.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/1419811/saudi-arabia

ALL forms of discrimination, mind you !

The conference was held in Mecca. A city that forbids non-muslims from entering it, on pain of death. 

"Hmmm........"

 

Well.... Let me say this about that!  Tons of examples spring to mind.

The United States was founded with a constitution that declares that "All men are created equal" - while there was in fact SLAVERY going on.

Christians declare that the only way to God in the hereafter is through Jesus. (even though Jesus himself said that all children are god's children)

Jews declare that they are the "chosen people".

Oh, and how about your "Jolly Olde England", now being run by some dude named Jean-Claude in Brussels. And the EU has declared that parts of England be set aside for Muslims only. Hmmm....

Well, anyway, I could go on but you get the point. Discrimination is EVERYWHERE

 

[RoofGardener]

40 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well.... Let me say this about that!  Tons of examples spring to mind.

The United States was founded with a constitution that declares that "All men are created equal" - while there was in fact SLAVERY going on.

Christians declare that the only way to God in the hereafter is through Jesus. (even though Jesus himself said that all children are god's children)

Jews declare that they are the "chosen people".

Oh, and how about your "Jolly Olde England", now being run by some dude named Jean-Claude in Brussels. And the EU has declared that parts of England be set aside for Muslims only. Hmmm....

Well, anyway, I could go on but you get the point. Discrimination is EVERYWHERE

 

There is discrimination, and then there is discrimination, EoT. 

Christians and Jews may "self select", but show me where they ban people from entering a city ? 

[SHaYap]

39 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Christians and Jews may "self select", but show me where they ban people from entering a city ? 

Pick your poison ...

~

Quote

 

~

Palestinian freedom of movement - Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement

Jump to Restriction of movement in the West Bank - Israeli rights group B'Tselem called the ... of settlers on roads that are restricted to Palestinians.

‎Background · ‎History · ‎Movement between Gaza ...

 

~

Restrictions on Movement | B'Tselem

 

https://www.btselem.org/topic/freedom_of_movement

Restricting movement is one of the main tools Israel employs to enforce its regime of occupation. Israel imposes restrictions on the movement of Palestinians ...

 

~

World Report 2018: Israel and Palestine | Human Rights Watch

 

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/israel/palestine

The Israeli government continued to enforce severe and discriminatory restrictions on Palestinians' human rights; restrict the movement of people and goods into ...

~

Israeli Restrictions on Palestinian Movement | IMEU

 

https://imeu.org/article/israeli-restrictions-on-palestinian-movement

Jun 6, 2017 - Palestinian workers wait in line at an Israeli military checkpoint near the city of Hebron in the occupied West Bank. (PHOTO: Emil Salman) ...

 

~

Israeli army imposes 'severe restrictions' on Palestinian communities ...

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20171130-israeli-army-imposes-severe-restrictio...

Nov 30, 2017 - The Israeli military has been imposing “severe travel restrictions” on four Palestinian communities in the Masafer Yatta region of the southern ...

 

~

Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories 2017/2018 | Amnesty ...

 

https://www.amnesty.org/.../israel...palestinian.../report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian...

June marked 50 years since Israel's occupation of the Palestinian Territories and ... Jerusalem, and severely restricted the freedom of movement of Palestinians.

 

~

10 Things Palestinians Can't Do Because Of The Israeli Occupation ...

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../things-palestinians-cant-do_us_586554d4e4b0eb5...

Dec 29, 2016 - When the Israel-Palestine conflict is referred to as an “occupation,” it's .... restricted to Israelis, making efficient transit difficult for Palestinians.

 

~

Palestinian dies as Israel restricts al-Aqsa access | News | Al Jazeera

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/.../palestinian-dies-israel-restricts-al-aqsa-access-170728033...

Jul 28, 2017 - Young protester succumbs to wounds after being shot by Israeli forces, as ... of Palestinians in the streets to rally against extra restrictions at ...

 

~

 

 

[RoofGardener]

28 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Pick your poison ...

~

 

< sigh> Those restrictions are for valid security purposes. Are you REALLY suggesting that a Christian, Hindu or Atheist entering Mecca would constitute a terrorist threat ? 

[SHaYap]

2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

< sigh> Those restrictions are for valid security purposes. Are you REALLY suggesting that a Christian, Hindu or Atheist entering Mecca would constitute a terrorist threat ? 

You see, are you seriously suggesting that ALL who are not Israelis here mentioned constitutes a Terrorist threat ?

Your claims to sanctimoniousness belies nothing but your blinded pretenses for facetious benevolence

~

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

There is discrimination, and then there is discrimination, EoT. 

Christians and Jews may "self select", but show me where they ban people from entering a city ? 

I don't see where they do, however, Vatican City is pretty selective as to who they let in on the inside of those walls. Speaking of hypocrites LOL. And there's the pope telling the US not to build the wall. 

[+and-then]

8 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

even though Jesus himself said that all children are god's children)

He also said "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  NO man comes to the Father but by ME"  That's a pretty clear statement for someone who is being honest.  He was VERY "non-inclusive" where man's traditions and sins were concerned.  You change your mind and ask to be forgiven for them or you don't get to be in His presence.  That's a personal choice for each individual.  No harm, no foul and no hard feelings.  Truth is truth and it is immutable.   

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I don't see where they do, however, Vatican City is pretty selective as to who they let in on the inside of those walls. Speaking of hypocrites LOL. And there's the pope telling the US not to build the wall. 

I could probably push my way in but I'd hate to be humiliated internationally by men who wear such outrageously flamboyant frippery.  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I bet if I went into the confessional first, they might let me in to Vatican City. 

Of course, I'd have to wait for the smoke to dissipate first 

[RoofGardener]

8 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I don't see where they do, however, Vatican City is pretty selective as to who they let in on the inside of those walls. Speaking of hypocrites LOL. And there's the pope telling the US not to build the wall. 

Ummm.... yeeeeeeessss.... highly selective..... 

The Pope is a hypocrite. He reminds me of the wealthy 'liberals' in the USA who preach about the evils of the Mexican wall, from the comfort of their walled and gated communities  

[RoofGardener]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I bet if I went into the confessional first, they might let me in to Vatican City. 

Of course, I'd have to wait for the smoke to dissipate first 

ROFL... I can see the headlines.... 

"Mystery Pope elected by college of cardinals. As the smoke cleared, the new pontif, known only as Earl Trumpington 1st, stepped forth, and immediately issued a blistering attack against Israel, Islam, and Big Government  "

Edited December 14, 2018 by RoofGardener