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The Caspian Hare

Combatants agree to truce in Hodeida, Yemen

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and then
2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

RoofGuy... with all due respect, why, oh, why, do we westerners HAVE to make a choice???? 

Calgon take me away!!;)

I think 9-11-01 should have proven that there is no safe place from this insanity.

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Earl.Of.Trumps

@RoofGardener  I'm attacking the materials from a different angle, that's all.

This is how Americans learn geography. Let's look up who we're bombing now! loll

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RoofGardener
5 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@RoofGardener  I'm attacking the materials from a different angle, that's all.

This is how Americans learn geography. Let's look up who we're bombing now! loll

Welll.... OK... but America is not bombing Yemen ? 

It is assisting Saudi Arabia to do so, I'll grant you, as is the UK. 

But it is not directly bombing. 

Tell me EoT.. I'll ask you the same question I asked of BRD. 

Which side do you favour ? The Yemeni Houthi's, or the Yemeni "government" ? 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
4 minutes ago, and then said:

I think 9-11-01 should have proven that there is no safe place from this insanity.

It proved a lot, and then. However, the lesson learned and what to do about it results in opinion that varies.

Mine is, the US never should have been stirring up a hornets nest in the ME in the first place. The US thinks because we have superior technology we can win any war! Which, to the great thinkers in Washington means, we can SCREW these people and what are they going to do about it.!  And  of course, we found out.

I don't recall any such gross acts of terrorism happening in Poland, Colombia, Lithuania, or Mexico, can you? The attacks on Americans and other Western nations are directed and retalitory. They know who screwed them. It's Westerners that are in the dark about it.

bottom  line, US pols are as corrupt, arrogant, and murderous as they come. And we all suffer because of it.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Welll.... OK... but America is not bombing Yemen ? 

Give us time, RG!

6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

It is assisting Saudi Arabia to do so, I'll grant you, as is the UK. 

But it is not directly bombing. 

I think the US said this when we entered Syria. GEEZUS, what a cluster that has turned into 

6 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Tell me EoT.. I'll ask you the same question I asked of BRD. 

Which side do you favour ? The Yemeni Houthi's, or the Yemeni "government" ? 

I can't answer your question, RG. A thoughtful answer requires more research. Likely the government. But they can be just as screwed up, too.

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Black Red Devil
12 hours ago, seanjo said:

You silly b*****s that call people Naive are so naive, this is a war of cultures, you need to pick a side and get on board.
Who do you prefer, the Western democracies or China and Russia and Islam?

And you're trying to convince yourself that your view is representative of a western democracy?! :P  Look up racism and then look into the mirror.

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Black Red Devil
12 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.. bravo.

However, does ANY of the above self-indulgent logically incoherent gibberish relate to Yemini ? 

Tel me BRD.. do you favour the Houthi Islamist-supremacist  "Rebels", or the Whabbaist Saudi-backed Islamist "government" ? 

Where do you stand ? 

 

Your post had little to do with Yemen and was more about your view on realpolitics, i.e., Trump was wise to gobble up 450 mil and forget who the recipients are and what they're doing with the sales.  The fact that you agree to such a mindset doesn't do you any favors.  The bottom line is the 'President of the free world' is/was militarily supporting a nation that is creating a humanitarian crisis within a civilian population. 

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Black Red Devil
12 hours ago, and then said:

People like our friend from OZ remind me of this scene in A FEW GOOD MEN.  They live in safety and have the luxury of spitting on the people that provide that safety to them.

Starts at 1:30.  Nails their attitude perfectly.  It's why I have no respect for them at all.

Said by the guy that would probably back stab his own fellow Americans if they dropped their loyalty towards Israel and really, your lack of respect? I mean, who cares, just stick to the forum rules, keep telling us your biblical prophecies and have fun.

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Your post had little to do with Yemen and was more about your view on realpolitics, i.e., Trump was wise to gobble up 450 mil and forget who the recipients are and what they're doing with the sales.  The fact that you agree to such a mindset doesn't do you any favors.  The bottom line is the 'President of the free world' is/was militarily supporting a nation that is creating a humanitarian crisis within a civilian population. 

Amusing. 

So a middle-eastern country fragments into civil war. A neighbour supports the 'official' government, leading the rebels to attack said neighbour, which gets annoyed and starts fighting back. The rebel group is of a different religious cult to the neighbour, and is suspected of being a proxy for Iran.

And you manage to blame this on Donald Trump  ? 

Amazing. 

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Black Red Devil
15 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Just that aspect of it, BRDevil.

"politics" - that sums it up.   During WWII when the US and USSR chose to ally in the war against Germany, President Truman had a hard time explaining this to the American people. He actually referred to Stalin is "Uncle Joe" to try to humanize him and soften the move. RIght, the Uncle Joe that killed 30 million people.  "politics", my man. 

If the US refused to deal with any country that had corrupt murderous leaders, we'd be saving a TON in foreign aid LOL

Mate, not even close.  Selling weapons to murderous dictators that use them to kill civilians is all about greed.  The US made 75 billion in 2017 from arm sales and reached this quota in 2018 within 6 months thanks to Trump injecting more funds into 'Defense'.  US Aid is approximately 18 billion per annum and guess who the third highest recipient is?  Israel.  As if Israel is in need of aid, LOL.  Trump actually announced he was cutting foreign aid in 2019 so expect the margins to be even greater.  The US alliance with Russia was a necessity to counteract the aggressive expansionist objectives of the Axis powers, which BTW, didn't seem to be a concern until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.  In fact the US only declared was on Germany after the attack, almost 2 years into the war.  On top of that the truth about Stalin wasn't even known at the time but nevertheless, nobody liked or trusted the bolsheviks.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Black Red Devil
28 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Amusing. 

So a middle-eastern country fragments into civil war. A neighbour supports the 'official' government, leading the rebels to attack said neighbour, which gets annoyed and starts fighting back. The rebel group is of a different religious cult to the neighbour, and is suspected of being a proxy for Iran.

And you manage to blame this on Donald Trump  ? 

Amazing. 

You know what's even more amazing?  Even US Congress, including many from both sides of the spectrum, rebuked support for the country that Donald Trump (and you) thought was doing no wrong in this war.

How does it feel to be always on the wrong side of every argument? While more and more people are seeing straight threw the unscrupulous methods of this guy, the likes of you, religious nutjobs and racists are the last ones standing.  Good company.

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RoofGardener
3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

You know what's even more amazing?  Even US Congress, including many from both sides of the spectrum, rebuked support for the country that Donald Trump (and you) thought was doing no wrong in this war.

How does it feel to be always on the wrong side of every argument? While more and more people are seeing straight threw the unscrupulous methods of this guy, the likes of you, religious nutjobs and racists are the last ones standing.  Good company.

And WHERE... pray.. did I say that Saudi was "doing no wrong in this war" ? 

I was merely pointing out the latent hypocrisy - or at least child-like oversimplification - inherent in some of the criticisms of Donald Trump in regard to Saudi Arabia. :) 

Keeping Good company BRD ? :D 

Well, the truce is due to start tomorrow. (Tuesday). It will be interesting to see how long it lasts for  ! 

Edited by RoofGardener
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seanjo
6 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

And you're trying to convince yourself that your view is representative of a western democracy?! :P  Look up racism and then look into the mirror.

I'm guessing you're a student that wouldn't know actual racism if it walked across the street shouting I'm racism.

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Black Red Devil
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

And WHERE... pray.. did I say that Saudi was "doing no wrong in this war" ? 

I was merely pointing out the latent hypocrisy - or at least child-like oversimplification - inherent in some of the criticisms of Donald Trump in regard to Saudi Arabia. :) 

Keeping Good company BRD ? :D 

Well, the truce is due to start tomorrow. (Tuesday). It will be interesting to see how long it lasts for  ! 

Back peddling?! You are justifying their murderous actions, which is just the same.  Whilst justifying their actions you also approved US (Trump) strategic support for 'a powerful ally in the region compared to an insignificant peasant Iranian ally'.  It's well renown of Trumps support for a strategic ally who pays well, regardless of their murderous actions and atrocities.

The whole crunch with both you and our biblical thumper friend is that it's ALWAYS and only about Israeli interest.  You're just incapable of taking an unbiased view on anything.  Either that or you're getting some lucro out of it :tu:.  I don't support the Houthis nor Iranians.  The Iranians are just as bad as the Saudi's.  But I don't support the hypocritical acts of our politicians (and I include Australian politicians in this as well) who profiteer from the sufferings of others around the world.  Sure, we live in luxury in the west and probably a lot of it because of our ruthless politics, but I'd also like to believe there is a limit you don't overtake just for the sake of a favorable budget.

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The Caspian Hare

Houthis aren't really that close to Iran anyway. Supporting Houthis is just a cheap method for Iran to make Saudis bleed.

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and then
4 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

our biblical thumper friend is that it's ALWAYS and only about Israeli interest. 

Neighbor, you've probably never actually met a real "Bible Thumper".  They generally don't know or care about prophecy, they're all about carrying the message of Christ.  Proselytizing is verboten here and I stay away from it.  The prophecy you can take or leave until it becomes reality, then you can comfort yourself with continued denial or actually implement some hateful agenda against the messengers.  Your choice.  

I straight up admit without any embarrassment that I fully support the RIGHT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ISRAEL (JACOB) TO LIVE IN THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.  That's it.  That's the extent of my support and I've always been clear about it.  I don't ignore crimes by civilians or soldiers against innocent Palestinian non-combatants.  It's quite possible to support both those ideas unless you're so anti-Jew that you cannot see anything they do as correct.  Folks like yourself seem to ignore any atrocity against Jews in Israel because they are actually IN the land.  Anything the Palestinians do, no matter how horrific is ignored or excuses are made for them.  The innocent in Gaza and the WB who are killed when the IDF actually has to fight back against naked aggression from those areas are as much the victims of Hamas as they are the weapons of Israel.  Soon now, perhaps in late winter, a peace deal is going to be unveiled and it will be interesting to see whether the Israelis or Palestinians decide to support it.  Both sides will be asked to suffer the loss of something they desire.  Yes, the reactions will indeed be interesting.

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RoofGardener
10 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Back peddling?! You are justifying their murderous actions, which is just the same.  Whilst justifying their actions you also approved US (Trump) strategic support for 'a powerful ally in the region compared to an insignificant peasant Iranian ally'.  It's well renown of Trumps support for a strategic ally who pays well, regardless of their murderous actions and atrocities.

The whole crunch with both you and our biblical thumper friend is that it's ALWAYS and only about Israeli interest.  You're just incapable of taking an unbiased view on anything.  Either that or you're getting some lucro out of it :tu:.  I don't support the Houthis nor Iranians.  The Iranians are just as bad as the Saudi's.  But I don't support the hypocritical acts of our politicians (and I include Australian politicians in this as well) who profiteer from the sufferings of others around the world.  Sure, we live in luxury in the west and probably a lot of it because of our ruthless politics, but I'd also like to believe there is a limit you don't overtake just for the sake of a favorable budget.

Not back-peddling at ALL, BlackRedDevil, just pointing out a fact. 

It might suprise you to know this BlackRedDevil, but I rarely support Israel per se in these forums. What I DO do, is challenge posts that have incorrect information in them, or blindly follow "perceived wisdom".  And discussions about Israel are a RICH seam to mine in that regard. 

I notice you enjoy ad-hominem attacks against me, but rarely actually challenge my posts directly. 

Tell me BRD.. how many people have been killed in the Yemini civil war since.. say .. 2015 ? 

And.. back on topic... it appears that the Houthi have dishonoured the cease-fire within minutes of it coming into effect. Well, according to government forces, anyway. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46600430

Edited by RoofGardener

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Earl.Of.Trumps
11 hours ago, and then said:

Neighbor, you've probably never actually met a real "Bible Thumper".  They generally don't know or care about prophecy, they're all about carrying the message of Christ.  Proselytizing is verboten here and I stay away from it.  The prophecy you can take or leave until it becomes reality, then you can comfort yourself with continued denial or actually implement some hateful agenda against the messengers.  Your choice.  

I straight up admit without any embarrassment that I fully support the RIGHT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ISRAEL (JACOB) TO LIVE IN THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.  That's it.  That's the extent of my support and I've always been clear about it.

I'm afraid you go much deeper than that in your support. You seem to have no problem at all with Jews going the extra step in clearing the land of Pal Muslims and of disobeying UN orders to allow the displaced Pals back in to their homeland.

When you come right down to it, I also support the rights of Jews to live in ancient Israel. But the ethnic/religious cleansing is verboten. Not only that. it's not anything God allows for either.

11 hours ago, and then said:

  I don't ignore crimes by civilians or soldiers against innocent Palestinian non-combatants.  It's quite possible to support both those ideas unless you're so anti-Jew that you cannot see anything they do as correct. 

It's all retalitory, and then. And even though we don't always recognize it, it is a war, a unjust war that was started by immigrant European Jews.

11 hours ago, and then said:

Folks like yourself seem to ignore any atrocity against Jews in Israel because they are actually IN the land.  Anything the Palestinians do, no matter how horrific is ignored or excuses are made for them.  The innocent in Gaza and the WB who are killed when the IDF actually has to fight back against naked aggression from those areas are as much the victims of Hamas as they are the weapons of Israel.  Soon now, perhaps in late winter, a peace deal is going to be unveiled and it will be interesting to see whether the Israelis or Palestinians decide to support it.  Both sides will be asked to suffer the loss of something they desire.  Yes, the reactions will indeed be interesting.

Between you, me, and the wall, and then, there will be no lasting peace. It has gotten to that point.

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Black Red Devil
15 hours ago, and then said:

Neighbor, you've probably never actually met a real "Bible Thumper".  They generally don't know or care about prophecy, they're all about carrying the message of Christ.  Proselytizing is verboten here and I stay away from it.  The prophecy you can take or leave until it becomes reality, then you can comfort yourself with continued denial or actually implement some hateful agenda against the messengers.  Your choice.  

I straight up admit without any embarrassment that I fully support the RIGHT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ISRAEL (JACOB) TO LIVE IN THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND.  That's it.  That's the extent of my support and I've always been clear about it.  I don't ignore crimes by civilians or soldiers against innocent Palestinian non-combatants.  It's quite possible to support both those ideas unless you're so anti-Jew that you cannot see anything they do as correct.  Folks like yourself seem to ignore any atrocity against Jews in Israel because they are actually IN the land.  Anything the Palestinians do, no matter how horrific is ignored or excuses are made for them.  The innocent in Gaza and the WB who are killed when the IDF actually has to fight back against naked aggression from those areas are as much the victims of Hamas as they are the weapons of Israel.  Soon now, perhaps in late winter, a peace deal is going to be unveiled and it will be interesting to see whether the Israelis or Palestinians decide to support it.  Both sides will be asked to suffer the loss of something they desire.  Yes, the reactions will indeed be interesting.

Yeah right, LOL

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Black Red Devil
9 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Not back-peddling at ALL, BlackRedDevil, just pointing out a fact. 

It might suprise you to know this BlackRedDevil, but I rarely support Israel per se in these forums. What I DO do, is challenge posts that have incorrect information in them, or blindly follow "perceived wisdom".  And discussions about Israel are a RICH seam to mine in that regard. 

I notice you enjoy ad-hominem attacks against me, but rarely actually challenge my posts directly. 

Tell me BRD.. how many people have been killed in the Yemini civil war since.. say .. 2015 ? 

And.. back on topic... it appears that the Houthi have dishonoured the cease-fire within minutes of it coming into effect. Well, according to government forces, anyway. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46600430

Yeah right, LOL

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and then
35 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yeah right, LOL

Sorry, I thought I'd been trying to have a discussion with an adult.  My mistake.

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Black Red Devil
5 minutes ago, and then said:

Sorry, I thought I'd been trying to have a discussion with an adult.  My mistake.

It's a reaction when someone starts telling little porkies.

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and then
48 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

It's a reaction when someone starts telling little porkies.

I have no need to convince anyone here of my ideology or my truthfulness.  If you care to cite some post of mine where I've advocated for Israeli civilians or military to commit atrocities against anyone, feel free.  The basic disagreement between us gets down to the right of Jews to possess that land.  On that, we will never agree.  A person need not be a Jew-hater to believe in good conscience that they don't belong on that land but turning a blind eye to murders and random terror against those same Jews denies them any humanity.  As I said in the previous post, a peace deal is coming - maybe as soon as January or February.  It will be a deal where BOTH sides squeal at its "unfairness".  How people justify their rejection of the agreement will show their true allegiances in the conflict.  The Palestinians will only agree to it under duress but their adherence to Islam and the concept of Hudnah would leave the door open for them to lie and abrogate whenever they sense weakness.  On the Israeli side, the diverse groups among that democracy would never totally agree on the justice of an agreement and some would rebel against it but few would openly challenge the decision of the government that made the agreement.  

I don't know how old you are but I suspect you'll be around to see these things happen.  You will probably celebrate when war comes against the people of Israel and they appear on the threshold of being kicked out of the land.  I hope that when your desires are dashed in an inconceivable way you will finally realize that maybe, just maybe you've taken the wrong side in this ancient feud.  If you resist and still stoke your resentment against these people then you'll be setting yourself against a MUCH more formidable adversary than some old "Bible thumper" from deepest, darkest Alabama. 

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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

It's a reaction when someone starts telling little porkies.

Are you suggesting that I am lying, Black Red Devil ? 

Feel free to 

  1. Elaborate, or 
  2. Retract and apologise

Failing either of those, I may seek to appeal to The Guild of Moderators.

Edited by RoofGardener

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Black Red Devil
1 hour ago, and then said:

I have no need to convince anyone here of my ideology or my truthfulness.  If you care to cite some post of mine where I've advocated for Israeli civilians or military to commit atrocities against anyone, feel free.  The basic disagreement between us gets down to the right of Jews to possess that land.  On that, we will never agree.  A person need not be a Jew-hater to believe in good conscience that they don't belong on that land but turning a blind eye to murders and random terror against those same Jews denies them any humanity.  As I said in the previous post, a peace deal is coming - maybe as soon as January or February.  It will be a deal where BOTH sides squeal at its "unfairness".  How people justify their rejection of the agreement will show their true allegiances in the conflict.  The Palestinians will only agree to it under duress but their adherence to Islam and the concept of Hudnah would leave the door open for them to lie and abrogate whenever they sense weakness.  On the Israeli side, the diverse groups among that democracy would never totally agree on the justice of an agreement and some would rebel against it but few would openly challenge the decision of the government that made the agreement.  

I don't know how old you are but I suspect you'll be around to see these things happen.  You will probably celebrate when war comes against the people of Israel and they appear on the threshold of being kicked out of the land.  I hope that when your desires are dashed in an inconceivable way you will finally realize that maybe, just maybe you've taken the wrong side in this ancient feud.  If you resist and still stoke your resentment against these people then you'll be setting yourself against a MUCH more formidable adversary than some old "Bible thumper" from deepest, darkest Alabama. 

You've got it all wrong.  I don't believe you have to take sides but just have a balanced opinion.  People do this ll the time, they feel compelled to give their total support behind characters that represent an ideology, a belief, a faith etc. they're affiliated to in some way, irrelevant whether their methods or acts are contrary to human morals in general.  For example, supporting Israel doesn't mean supporting a Government that oppresses others, supporting Palestinians doesn't mean supporting Hamas' methods, being a Muslim doesn't mean accepting the criminal acts of terrorists or being a Republican doesn't mean believing in everything Donald Trump does as a leader of the most powerful nation in our world in this moment. 

You seem to always believe you know the outcome of a 'peace' agreement and put your sarcastic spin on it.  Israel has a powerful military, has support of powerful nations (I include most western countries), has a strong economy, so what could they possibly fear from a tiny little nation they would most likely still have control over and if this nation starts belligerent acts because of racial hatred after they've just became a nation, how do you think this would go down with the rest of the world?  Israel would have nothing to lose in a peace agreement but maybe this isn't part of the Zionists agenda, you know those strongly minded individuals that populate the Right wing parties in Israel.

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