Bizarre Accounts of Living Dinosaurs- Africa

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Originally I posted the link about the 86% of species still left undiscovered only to show just how much we are missing in the plant and animal kingdom. That really does not directly apply to the animal in question in this thread because that species of animal (if it exists here) has already been proven to exist. Only ONE person in this thread caught that.

Anyway, to still defend my point: Top 5 Newly Discovered Animal Species 2018

But that doesn’t mean that we have got it all figured out. In 2017 alone, there were an astounding 18,000 new species discovered

My favorite is, of course, the new species , Tapanuli Orangutan.

I know there are some very knowledgable people in here, but in this discussion, I do not stand corrected.... I stand correct.

Peace  Love  Dove.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jenn8779]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:25 AM, Carnoferox said:

 Dinosaur fossils are exceedingly rare in central Africa, so I don't think a geomythological explanation would account for much. 

Sorry I just caught this....are fossils rare there because there weren't many dinosaurs living there or is it that the environment wasn't conducive to preserving/creating fossils?

[Jenn8779]

One thing that strikes me from some of the accounts by westerners from colonial times is that they turn up in otherwise "unremarkable" reports, books, letters, etc. I can't help but wonder why? Did they actually see "something"? Were they just having a go at the folks back home? Boredom? Lol

[Jenn8779]

18 hours ago, Kenemet said:

We've got web cams all over Africa (and satellites) and there are a number of projects to survey and count animals via satellite/web cam images.  I think dinosaurs would get spotted really quickly.

I thought about this after reading it. If they are out in the open or around/in the lakes where so many reports come from, then there should be images. But can the cams and satellites penetrate the thicker jungle canopy areas? For those familiar with them... I'm not at all knowledgeable about them

[Carnoferox]

15 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

Sorry I just caught this....are fossils rare there because there weren't many dinosaurs living there or is it that the environment wasn't conducive to preserving/creating fossils?

It is because there are not many Mesozoic geologic formations exposed in central Africa.

[oldrover]

17 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

I thought about this after reading it. If they are out in the open or around/in the lakes where so many reports come from, then there should be images. But can the cams and satellites penetrate the thicker jungle canopy areas? For those familiar with them... I'm not at all knowledgeable about them

The place most associated today with mokele mbembe is Lake Telé. That's in the center of dense forest. So no. But, the most recent satellite images aren't tje best. The previous ones were more detailed and showed logging roads pushing to within about 20 KM or so of the lake. It's no so remote anymore. 

[Myles]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

My favorite is, of course, the new species , Tapanuli Orangutan.

I know there are some very knowledgable people in here, but in this discussion, I do not stand corrected.... I stand correct.

Peace  Love  Dove.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too enjoy reading about newly discovered species.  However, you must admit that most of them are very small.  Others are variants of known species.   I'm not sure of what the biggest unique species found was recently. 

Even the Tapanuli orangutan is not as exciting as some make it out to be.   The isolated population was discovered in 1939.   Then again in 1997, but it was thought to be a known species of orangutans.  Bigfoot or a dinosaur would be far to unique to escape discovery.   

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, Jenn8779 said:

One thing that strikes me from some of the accounts by westerners from colonial times is that they turn up in otherwise "unremarkable" reports, books, letters, etc. I can't help but wonder why? Did they actually see "something"? Were they just having a go at the folks back home? Boredom? Lol

Yup and one of the strangest is a George Washington daily log diary during the revolutionary war:  George Washington Sees Greenies

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

58 minutes ago, Myles said:

I too enjoy reading about newly discovered species.  However, you must admit that most of them are very small.  Others are variants of known species.   I'm not sure of what the biggest unique species found was recently. 

Even the Tapanuli orangutan is not as exciting as some make it out to be.   The isolated population was discovered in 1939.   Then again in 1997, but it was thought to be a known species of orangutans.  Bigfoot or a dinosaur would be far to unique to escape discovery.   

All well and fine, Myles. 

Oldrover posted in here that the loggers have gotten within twenty miles of the lake so it is not so remote. Well, try WALKING that 20 miles through the dense brush to find out just what boondocks is. If that creature is really staying close to the lake, it's not a big wonder  why so few reports come out about it by the locals.

In the end, I'm not saying that this creature exists or doesn't, naturally. what I will say is,s people (Westerners) shouldn't toss out testimony of locals without just cause. It's borderline racism, yes, racism, because if a Big White Western Bwana went to that lake and reported the same thing, everyone (in the West) would fascinate.

And that's the way life goes.

[Carnoferox]

13 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yup and one of the strangest is a George Washington daily log diary during the revolutionary war:  George Washington Sees Greenies

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-ancient-aliens-s03e11-lies-my-tv-told-me

Quote

Another claim made by Ancient Aliens, that Washington was visited by “Greenskins,” or alien beings, derives entirely from hoax diaries allegedly found in a Scottish castle in the 1990s and later reported on by a British tabloid reporter in the Sun. As far as I can tell, such diaries have never been published and in all likelihood do not exist.

 

[Kenemet]

6 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-ancient-aliens-s03e11-lies-my-tv-told-me

You anticipated my question.  I hadn't heard of any George Washington diaries that mentioned green skinned Native Americans or anything of the like.

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Jenn8779 said:

I thought about this after reading it. If they are out in the open or around/in the lakes where so many reports come from, then there should be images. But can the cams and satellites penetrate the thicker jungle canopy areas? For those familiar with them... I'm not at all knowledgeable about them

Not necessarily, as others have said.  HOWEVER... one place that biologists go hunting for new species is the "bush meat" market.  There's been a number of new creatures discovered this way (they wander into traps and someone brings the carcass to the market to sell as meat.)  And those areas are inhabited, although not densely inhabited and may not have a lot of roads there.

[Jenn8779]

1 hour ago, Carnoferox said:

It is because there are not many Mesozoic geologic formations exposed in central Africa.

And that makes sense. Now I can't help wondering what would be found if it was exposed.

[Jenn8779]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

The place most associated today with mokele mbembe is Lake Telé. That's in the center of dense forest. So no. But, the most recent satellite images aren't tje best. The previous ones were more detailed and showed logging roads pushing to within about 20 KM or so of the lake. It's no so remote anymore. 

Question- what changed to cause the differences in the images? Is it the technology or the landscape? And Lake Tele was the area I was thinking about. Thank you for naming it!

6 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Not necessarily, as others have said.  HOWEVER... one place that biologists go hunting for new species is the "bush meat" market.  There's been a number of new creatures discovered this way (they wander into traps and someone brings the carcass to the market to sell as meat.)  And those areas are inhabited, although not densely inhabited and may not have a lot of roads there.

Speculation here but from one story told of natives killing a mokele mbembe, eating it and becoming sick or dying...is it possible that they now wouldn't show up in a bush meat market for that reason?

For both posts above, it does seem as though the area is becoming less remote. I wonder if that has been inhibited by the wars?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

pic of Mokele Mbembe

Enjoy!

[Kenemet]

6 hours ago, Jenn8779 said:

Speculation here but from one story told of natives killing a mokele mbembe, eating it and becoming sick or dying...is it possible that they now wouldn't show up in a bush meat market for that reason?

If that was the case, a lot of people would know about the meat being unfit to eat... and that means that a lot of people would have seen or hunted it.  So there'd be hides available and other body parts, and it would have been relatively plentiful.  One word-of-mouth saying "a bunch of people at this stuff and got sick" is not really indication of anything.

[Trelane]

This is definitely an entertaining thread. Dinosaurs? Here I am thinking the argument for Bigfoot is ridiculous and then this shows up. Wow, just wow.... 

[Carnoferox]

1 hour ago, Trelane said:

This is definitely an entertaining thread. Dinosaurs? Here I am thinking the argument for Bigfoot is ridiculous and then this shows up. Wow, just wow.... 

It may be entertaining at first, but for someone who's read loads of this stuff it gets old very fast. 

[oldrover]

11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

All well and fine, Myles. 

Oldrover posted in here that the loggers have gotten within twenty miles of the lake so it is not so remote. Well, try WALKING that 20 miles through the dense brush to find out just what boondocks is. If that creature is really staying close to the lake, it's not a big wonder  why so few reports come out about it by the locals.

In the end, I'm not saying that this creature exists or doesn't, naturally. what I will say is,s people (Westerners) shouldn't toss out testimony of locals without just cause. It's borderline racism, yes, racism, because if a Big White Western Bwana went to that lake and reported the same thing, everyone (in the West) would fascinate.

And that's the way life goes.

Walking 10KM or so to Lake Tele from the nearest road would probably be hell, but there is at least one tour company who was/is offering trips there. Whether anyone ever took them up is something I've never been able to tell. But equally, we wouldn't be talking about one mokele mbembe would we, we'd need a breeding population. Which would tend to wonder a bit, so again I say, it's not remote enough to hide that. And again, why unless the animal had escaped from a pre-1980s Dinosaur illustration would it be hanging around in a lake? The only reason it was assumed to be a Sauropod was because the stories published in the Western sources conformed to the idea of how these animals looked and behaved when those stories were written. 

As to the borderline racist claim, that would hold water, if it was actually local traditions we were hearing, but they aren't. Remember where these tales come from, the colonial era. They may have been added to over the years, but basically they come from the time when the voices heard from the region were those of the big white bwana, and those alone. 

 

[Don Caesar]

3 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

It may be entertaining at first, but for someone who's read loads of this stuff it gets old very fast. 

All these sightings and next to no proof to back any of it up. I love reading about this stuff, even if most of it is bs. 

[DodgyDaoist]

15 hours ago, Jenn8779 said:

For both posts above, it does seem as though the area is becoming less remote. I wonder if that has been inhibited by the wars?

Not just the wars, but also illegal gold miners, poachers in bush meat, gorillas, chimps, forest elephants and other endangered species, plus the myriad of small time militias, bandits and other human trash that exploit the wilds of Africa for profit.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

9 hours ago, oldrover said:

Walking 10KM or so to Lake Tele from the nearest road would probably be hell, but there is at least one tour company who was/is offering trips there. Whether anyone ever took them up is something I've never been able to tell. But equally, we wouldn't be talking about one mokele mbembe would we, we'd need a breeding population. Which would tend to wonder a bit, so again I say, it's not remote enough to hide that. And again, why unless the animal had escaped from a pre-1980s Dinosaur illustration would it be hanging around in a lake? The only reason it was assumed to be a Sauropod was because the stories published in the Western sources conformed to the idea of how these animals looked and behaved when those stories were written. 

As to the borderline racist claim, that would hold water, if it was actually local traditions we were hearing, but they aren't. Remember where these tales come from, the colonial era. They may have been added to over the years, but basically they come from the time when the voices heard from the region were those of the big white bwana, and those alone. 

 

Yes, oldrover, good points. And I regret throwing out the race card. oops. 

"breeding population" is a very good angle to think on. 

In the end, tho, there is a photo of the beast and supposedly a vid, tho I did not see the vid. But the continual sightings means it is worthy of investigation IMO

[Jenn8779]

14 hours ago, Trelane said:

This is definitely an entertaining thread. Dinosaurs? Here I am thinking the argument for Bigfoot is ridiculous and then this shows up. Wow, just wow.... 

Bigfoot has been done to death, so to speak, on this site. LoL we're excited over something different

[Kenemet]

15 hours ago, Trelane said:

This is definitely an entertaining thread. Dinosaurs? Here I am thinking the argument for Bigfoot is ridiculous and then this shows up. Wow, just wow.... 

There are millions of dinosaurs alive today.  They're feathered, have beaks, and mostly go "chirp!" 

(The clade (biological term that describes one "branch" on the "tree of life") called 'Dinosaur' contains both dinosaurs and birds.)

[Trelane]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

There are millions of dinosaurs alive today.  They're feathered, have beaks, and mostly go "chirp!" 

(The clade (biological term that describes one "branch" on the "tree of life") called 'Dinosaur' contains both dinosaurs and birds.)

Exactly. I'm trying to understand the logic an thought process of those that actually believe dinosaurs/bigfoot/UFOs actually exist.