Bizarre Accounts of Living Dinosaurs- Africa

[Trelane]

14 hours ago, Don Caesar said:

All these sightings and next to no proof to back any of it up. I love reading about this stuff, even if most of it is bs. 

Thank you. It's entertaining but ridiculously not real. I feel bad for those who believe or argue that it's real.

[Jenn8779]

2 minutes ago, Trelane said:

Exactly. I'm trying to understand the logic an thought process of those that actually believe dinosaurs/bigfoot/UFOs actually exist.

I don't think personally that they exist so much as I am open to the possibility, no matter how improbable.

Let me clarify that thought- I feel that we must remain open minded for the simple reason that if we cannot imagine the possibility of something existing, and then speculate on it's existence ie, if X exists it would behave in this manner, how can we decide what scientific method is best to test it? I believe the greatest minds have had that ability. To suspend disbelief long enough to look at the possibility and then decide how to proceed with testing and scientific research/analysis.

I think once we shut down our minds to the possibilities we do ourselves a disservice. It takes creativity to than use critical thinking if we are to move beyond just one individuals thinking process. We've developed multiple testing methodology based on multiple people using critical thinking and open-minded thinking. Do not get me wrong. There's a difference between open minded and being simple and naive. I am neither

[oldrover]

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

15 hours ago, oldrover said:

 

Yes, oldrover, good points. And I regret throwing out the race card. oops.

I don't think you should regret it Earl. It is a big part of all this. Fortunately I'm not sure it is today, but at the heart of these stories, and the times they originate from. 

[Carnoferox]

4 hours ago, oldrover said:

I don't think you should regret it Earl. It is a big part of all this. Fortunately I'm not sure it is today, but at the heart of these stories, and the times they originate from. 

Historical context is key for understanding cryptozoology. A lot of cryptozoologists (especially the "true believers") choose to ignore it because it inconveniently calls into question the credibility of the core accounts/cryptids. In order for the field to progress this mindset needs to be overcome. Some of you have probably heard this before, but I feel it needs to be reiterated. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Carnoferox

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

5 hours ago, Trelane said:

Exactly. I'm trying to understand the logic an thought process of those that actually believe dinosaurs/bigfoot/UFOs actually exist.

And I'm still trying to figure out why those who DON'T hound people who do, endlessly. Must be some morbid affection.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

53 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

Historical context is key for understanding cryptozoology. A lot of cryptozoologists (especially the "true believers") choose to ignore it because it inconveniently calls into question the credibility of the core accounts/cryptids. In order for the field to progress this mindset needs to be overcome. Some of you have probably heard this before, but I feel it needs to be reiterated. 

Carn, you're a good poster but what you are saying essentially is that in order for crypto to progress, the minds who look at  historical human testimony evidences and think there is something to it have to be overcome. 

You are talking "historical contest", no? Well, whatever, Carn. we differ in opinion

[Carnoferox]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Carn, you're a good poster but what you are saying essentially is that in order for crypto to progress, the minds who look at  historical human testimony evidences and think there is something to it have to be overcome. 

You are talking "historical contest", no? Well, whatever, Carn. we differ in opinion

No, it's about overcoming the common mindset that historical context is irrelevant to examining past cryptozooological encounters. Like ignoring the influence of contemporary dinosaur depictions while looking at old mokele mbembe reports, for example.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Carnoferox

[DodgyDaoist]

12 hours ago, Trelane said:

Exactly. I'm trying to understand the logic an thought process of those that actually believe dinosaurs/bigfoot/UFOs actually exist.

I used to wonder the same about those who dont, until i realised that not all people have a sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered.

Some people simply view life from a set box of dull factual parameters that they believe the world to be because that is what is taught, and like any belief structure, it shuts the mind to all that doesnt fit.

[Myles]

3 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

I used to wonder the same about those who dont, until i realised that not all people have a sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered.

Some people simply view life from a set box of dull factual parameters that they believe the world to be because that is what is taught, and like any belief structure, it shuts the mind to all that doesnt fit.

That goes both ways.

The known world is not even close to being "dull factual parameters".     I think most believers just prefer fantasy.   I get my fill through fiction books.   I do enjoy fiction quite a bit, but I don't let myself believe it is real. 

If my sense of wonder needed to be prodded by the existence of a population of large sauropods living among us undetected, than shame on me.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

9 hours ago, Carnoferox said:

No, it's about overcoming the common mindset that historical context is irrelevant to examining past cryptozooological encounters. Like ignoring the influence of contemporary dinosaur depictions while looking at old mokele mbembe reports, for example.

I look at these reports separately. There is no real need to mix them all together unless you can prove they deserve to be lumped together.

How can you claim mokele mbembe to be smoke and mirrors "just like all the rest" unless it is thoroughly investigated? 

It's sorta like the little boy who cried wolf, he told an untruth the first two times, and then when he told the truth the third time people were "conditioned" to him telling an untruth. I see it that way, anyway. For all we know, the natives have been right all along and there is sufficient evidences to back them. I have never seen the vid but the photo is there. Is it photo shopped? I have no idea but nobody has made the charge.

If all dinosaurs have not gone extinct, I wouldn't find it amazing that another species survived, too. But we'll see, I guess.

[Carnoferox]

49 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I look at these reports separately. There is no real need to mix them all together unless you can prove they deserve to be lumped together.

How can you claim mokele mbembe to be smoke and mirrors "just like all the rest" unless it is thoroughly investigated? 

It's sorta like the little boy who cried wolf, he told an untruth the first two times, and then when he told the truth the third time people were "conditioned" to him telling an untruth. I see it that way, anyway. For all we know, the natives have been right all along and there is sufficient evidences to back them. I have never seen the vid but the photo is there. Is it photo shopped? I have no idea but nobody has made the charge.

If all dinosaurs have not gone extinct, I wouldn't find it amazing that another species survived, too. But we'll see, I guess.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting to lump reports together; in fact I would suggest to do the opposite and look at them individually. I'm not claiming that the mokele mbembe is just "smoke and mirrors", but rather that it is mainly a western phenomenon birthed out of the dinosaur hype of the early 1900's.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Carnoferox

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting to lump reports together; in fact I would suggest to do the opposite and look at them individually. I'm not claiming that the mokele mbembe is just "smoke and mirrors", but rather that it is mainly a western phenomenon birthed out of the dinosaur hype of the early 1900's.

Well, fine, Carn. 

Just one minor complaint here with your statements. The "western phenomena" part is where I disagree. There is no telling how long the locals have known about the beast but I am sure the Westerners got their first interest based on what locals told them, and yes, maybe that happened in the 1900's but local knowledge may go back centuries.

peace love dove

[Carnoferox]

Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, fine, Carn. 

Just one minor complaint here with your statements. The "western phenomena" part is where I disagree. There is no telling how long the locals have known about the beast but I am sure the Westerners got their first interest based on what locals told them, and yes, maybe that happened in the 1900's but local knowledge may go back centuries.

peace love dove

It is highly suspicious that the first mokele mbembe reports date to the height of the second Jurassic dinosaur rush, a time when the first sauropod skeletons were being mounted at American museums to popular acclaim, when Charles Knight was producing his classic artwork including swamp-dwelling, tail-dragging sauropods, and when the German expeditions in Tanzania were uncovering large sauropod fossils. The fact that the modern idea of the mokele mbembe originated with westerners is indisputable.

[Myles]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I look at these reports separately. There is no real need to mix them all together unless you can prove they deserve to be lumped together.

How can you claim mokele mbembe to be smoke and mirrors "just like all the rest" unless it is thoroughly investigated? 

It's sorta like the little boy who cried wolf, he told an untruth the first two times, and then when he told the truth the third time people were "conditioned" to him telling an untruth. I see it that way, anyway. For all we know, the natives have been right all along and there is sufficient evidences to back them. I have never seen the vid but the photo is there. Is it photo shopped? I have no idea but nobody has made the charge.

If all dinosaurs have not gone extinct, I wouldn't find it amazing that another species survived, too. But we'll see, I guess.

But what is "thoroughly investigated"?    There have been many exhibitions that have looked for this creature.   Most recently were several TV series.   While they are not very good, I admit, they did go to the area and still found nothing of a population of very large dinosaurs.   Some say that Loch Ness needs to be more thoroughly investigated.   I would say that there has already been more resources spent than is justified.  There have been hundreds (maybe thousands) of teams searching, scanning and combing with nothing to show for it.   I would have been great if those resources were used on something more possible.  Even the thycaline.    To me, at least it has a chance to still exist.  

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

@Myles   Supposedly this beast is nocturnal. Getting there is one thing, lurking at night time for it to emerge is another matter. Have they tried this?  I don't know what the solution is.

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@Myles   Supposedly this beast is nocturnal. Getting there is one thing, lurking at night time for it to emerge is another matter. Have they tried this?  I don't know what the solution is.

I would assume they have.   Especially the TV series hunts.   They love using the night vision and thermal imaging cameras for the effect they provide on the screen.    Who claims they are nocturnal?   Sounds like another excuse to keep the myth alive.    Even in the day, thermal cameras would be useful.  

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would assume they have.   Especially the TV series hunts.   They love using the night vision and thermal imaging cameras for the effect they provide on the screen.    Who claims they are nocturnal?   Sounds like another excuse to keep the myth alive.    Even in the day, thermal cameras would be useful.  

I hope theyre using better tactics than basically every bigfoot hunter show ever.  Like maybe use actual hunting tactics? I watch these expeditions stumble around making a ton of noise spreading their stink everywhere and I want to smack them, its no wonder they cant ever find anything.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I hope theyre using better tactics than basically every bigfoot hunter show ever.  Like maybe use actual hunting tactics? I watch these expeditions stumble around making a ton of noise spreading their stink everywhere and I want to smack them, its no wonder they cant ever find anything.

I agree that they don't do a great job.   I don't think anyone would dispute that.   However, they do help debunk in some ways.   Looking for nests, hairs or anything else.   Testing scat.   Setting up trail cams that record for weeks.    Teams going in to search for a dinosaur and coming up empty is some information.  

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree that they don't do a great job.   I don't think anyone would dispute that.   However, they do help debunk in some ways.   Looking for nests, hairs or anything else.   Testing scat.   Setting up trail cams that record for weeks.    Teams going in to search for a dinosaur and coming up empty is some information.  

Totally agree, im not suggesting its worthless, just that with all those resources I think they could do better.........and that im jealous, jealous as hell that im not out there

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Totally agree, im not suggesting its worthless, just that with all those resources I think they could do better.........and that im jealous, jealous as hell that im not out there

Oh, they could definetely do better.   I still don't think they would find a bigfoot, loch ness monster or a large dinosaur in Africa.  However many believers would just add a characteristic or variable that would leave the existence open.   

Loch Ness - They preform a full sonar scan of the loch.  -  "Well maybe there is a cave underneath that it stay in or goes out to the ocean"

Bigfoot - The investigate a proposed nest and find no hair, prints or scat anywhere around it -  "Well maybe bigfoot knows better than to leave anything around a nest.   Maybe they do not shed hairs"

Dinosaur in Africa - Searchers have been unable to find any trace - "Well maybe they are nocturnal and no one can see them"

[Kenemet]

10 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

I used to wonder the same about those who dont, until i realised that not all people have a sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered.

Some people simply view life from a set box of dull factual parameters that they believe the world to be because that is what is taught, and like any belief structure, it shuts the mind to all that doesnt fit.

Quite true.  They're very unlike scientists (I'm one) who view the world as endlessly fascinating and full of new things to discover.

[Jenn8779]

7 hours ago, Myles said:

That goes both ways.

The known world is not even close to being "dull factual parameters".     I think most believers just prefer fantasy.   I get my fill through fiction books.   I do enjoy fiction quite a bit, but I don't let myself believe it is real. 

If my sense of wonder needed to be prodded by the existence of a population of large sauropods living among us undetected, than shame on me.

Myles,

Since joining this forum, I have often wondered at the statements from many who post "nothing exists".  I am honestly curious and hoping you can provide insight.  Exactly what attracts you to a forum like this?  Are there some mysteries you have an interest in or think are valid and then there are those you don't?

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Dinosaur in Africa - Searchers have been unable to find any trace - "Well maybe they are nocturnal and no one can see them"

You'd think a lion or something would've gotten one. 

[XenoFish]

11 hours ago, DodgyDaoist said:

I used to wonder the same about those who dont, until i realised that not all people have a sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered.

You can only hit so many dead ends till you quit/give up searching and embrace the fact that life is just a mundane series of cause and effect. In some cases the wonderment just dies. Life beats it out of you.

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

Myles,

Since joining this forum, I have often wondered at the statements from many who post "nothing exists".  I am honestly curious and hoping you can provide insight.  Exactly what attracts you to a forum like this?  Are there some mysteries you have an interest in or think are valid and then there are those you don't?

A couple things.   Like many, when I was a child, I was fascinated by the books of the mysteries.   As I grew up I started to realize that most were just fun stories.   However, it is still fun to see what "evidence" is put forward.   Same reason I like to watch The Curse of Oak Island.  

Also, in some way it is our duty to be skeptics of people promoting BS.   Ancient Aliens is a good one.   It is put forward in a documentary way that has many young people thinking that a documentary on the History Channel must be true.   My daughter fell for it.  I will chime in and debunk what I can whenever I see the chance.  

There are some that I am interested in.   I still give the Thylacine a chance to be still out there.   Very small chance, but I hold out hopes.