Bizarre Accounts of Living Dinosaurs- Africa

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 hours ago, Jenn8779 said:

Myles,

Since joining this forum, I have often wondered at the statements from many who post "nothing exists".  I am honestly curious and hoping you can provide insight.  Exactly what attracts you to a forum like this?  Are there some mysteries you have an interest in or think are valid and then there are those you don't?

BINGO!

And sad to say, Jen, "they" rule the roost.  And you want insight..? G'Luck!  I've been trying to figure out for years in here why so many people can enjoy just going into threads and giving no chance whatsoever that anything exists. No matter the evidence presented, they somehow pull out the right magic wand to wave to *prove* that it's all fantasy. And they enjoy this???

Weird way to have a good time. they certainly learn nothing of value.

Chin up, gal.

 

 

[Likely Guy]

4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You'd think a lion or something would've gotten one. 

Then there would a rotting massive carcass or at least a huge pile of bones above ground.

Unless of course, they're immortal

[Likely Guy]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

Also, in some way it is our duty to be skeptics of people promoting BS.   Ancient Aliens is a good one.   It is put forward in a documentary way that has many young people thinking that a documentary on the History Channel must be true.   My daughter fell for it.  I will chime in and debunk what I can whenever I see the chance.

Back in my day we had the documentary that was made from the book "Chariots of the Gods". Hey, I fell for it but I was around 13.

The more things change, the more they stayed the same.

[Likely Guy]

15 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

BINGO!

And sad to say, Jen, "they" rule the roost.  And you want insight..? G'Luck!  I've been trying to figure out for years in here why so many people can enjoy just going into threads and giving no chance whatsoever that anything exists. No matter the evidence presented, they somehow pull out the right magic wand to wave to *prove* that it's all fantasy. And they enjoy this???

Well, skeptics tend to hang around here. The posters that have one pet topic to push don't, unless they attract a like minded audience.

Earl, you spoke of 'evidence'. But the sad thing is that in this medium only photographic or video related claims can be shared 'directly' and more often than not the quality of such is extremely lacking.

And then there are the obvious trolls that roil and muddy the waters with entirely made up claims (nanobots?).

It's true that it's an uphill slog for anyone that might have seen what they thought they saw. It hasn't happened to me (yet), but if it did, I wouldn't give up.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

46 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Well, skeptics tend to hang around here. The posters that have one pet topic to push don't, unless they attract a like minded audience.

This would be very true. I - and likely, Jen, came here thinking that many folks would be here trying to learn more.  NYET. The nay-sayers rule everywhere. To me its as strange as going into the Christian web site, and every thread has a majority athiests! Now one may ask themselves, why would an athiest spend time at a christian web site simply repeating "god does not exist" in every post he makes in every thread. Sounds like such a person is having a very sad life and making life miserable for as many people as possible.

46 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Earl, you spoke of 'evidence'. But the sad thing is that in this medium only photographic or video related claims can be shared 'directly' and more often than not the quality of such is extremely lacking.

Here we go with "quality". Gad, you people!!!!   And there was a Japanese team that flew overhead and video'd it too. The same thing happened to them in Japan that happens in here. Go figure!

46 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

And then there are the obvious trolls that roil and muddy the waters with entirely made up claims (nanobots?).

Well, having no evidence is another matter. I do believe it is enjoyable to theorize about things like string theory but that is just fun speculation. I can differentiate.

46 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

It's true that it's an uphill slog for anyone that might have seen what they thought they saw. It hasn't happened to me (yet), but if it did, I wouldn't give up.

As you know, my father and several work mates were witness to four UFO's that hovered over a Coast Guard station.  Two pics by two different people were taken. So what I am I supposed to say? What else can they get as evidence, short of shooting the damn thing down?  But the negativism is a constant here. For some people, no amount of evidence is evidence. Eyewitnesses are always CrAZy and pics are too blurry or are reflections. C'est levie

ciao, Likely Guy

[Likely Guy]

3 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This would be very true. I - and likely, Jen, came here thinking that many folks would be here trying to learn more.  NYET. The nay-sayers rule everywhere. To me its as strange as going into the Christian web site, and every thread has a majority athiests! Now one may ask themselves, why would an athiest spend time at a christian web site simply repeating "god does not exist" in every post he makes in every thread. Sounds like such a person is having a very sad life and making life miserable for as many people as possible.

Just because this forum is entitled "Unexplained Mysteries", doesn't mean that everyone believes the same (or much the same) as in a Christian web site. It's called "Unexplained Mysteries" so that we as a group discuss it from every angle possible so that we might explain it.

11 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Here we go with "quality". Gad, you people!!!!   And there was a Japanese team that flew overhead and video'd it too. The same thing happened to them in Japan that happens in here. Go figure!

Not sure what you're referencing here. I need a refresher.

11 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Well, having no evidence is another matter. I do believe it is enjoyable to theorize about things like string theory but that is just fun speculation. I can differentiate.

Me too. That's why I'm here.

12 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

As you know, my father and several work mates were witness to four UFO's that hovered over a Coast Guard station.  Two pics by two different people were taken. So what I am I supposed to say? What else can they get as evidence, short of shooting the damn thing down?  But the negativism is a constant here. For some people, no amount of evidence is evidence. Eyewitnesses are always CrAZy and pics are too blurry or are reflections. C'est levie

ciao, Likely Guy

Well, I do hope that you recall that I treated you with respect during that discussion. For me, I have a problem that the second photograph was never published. That would have been almost earth shattering.

V - "Live long and Prosper"

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

11 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Just because this forum is entitled "Unexplained Mysteries", doesn't mean that everyone believes the same (or much the same) as in a Christian web site. It's called "Unexplained Mysteries" so that we as a group discuss it from every angle possible so that we might explain it.

Not sure what you're referencing here. I need a refresher.

Me too. That's why I'm here.

Well, I do hope that you recall that I treated you with respect during that discussion. For me, I have a problem that the second photograph was never published. That would have been almost earth shattering.

V - "Live long and Prosper"

Absolutely, Guy.  That's the Canadian in you LOL.

Ya, the second photo would have been awesome. My brother tried to locate the Johnsons. No luck. But that was before Facebook. Hmmmm..... I wonder if I should try. Could be a fruitless endless search for the right "Johnson". 

I'm sure, in the end, it would get ripped to pieces in here. C'est levie.

 

[Myles]

11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

BINGO!

And sad to say, Jen, "they" rule the roost.  And you want insight..? G'Luck!  I've been trying to figure out for years in here why so many people can enjoy just going into threads and giving no chance whatsoever that anything exists.

 

Do people really come here to hear people in agreement about everything?   Would it be better if we all posted stuff like:

It is so awesome that dinosaurs were able to survive the last 66 million years.   They are so cute roaming around Africa.  I want one as a pet. 

[stereologist]

On 12/14/2018 at 5:44 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Now you contradict yourself. People (westerners) went out looking for them because they wanted to see if there was any truth to the natives' folklore, aka, STORIES. They had no "evidence", as you call it.

They had NO evidence, as you call it. Westerners had native folklore. In your book, that does not count as "evidence"

Please get your stories right before you post another failure.  Physical parts of gorillas were known BEFORE explorers went looking for them. They did not search just because someone told a story.

Your claim of had no evidence is an uninformed opinion. You really need to check things out.

[stereologist]

On 12/14/2018 at 5:46 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

WRONG. you made the claim, YOU have to show that the experts discluded certain genus, species, or whatever.

It's on YOU. 

 

Are you as incompetent as you post? The work as I posted in a quote is based on living classes, phylum, families. 

There is no inclusion of placoderms, dinosaurs or other extinct groups of animals or fungi or plants.

You are the one claiming dinosaurs is covered. Please show us where this link of yours covers dinosaurs and other extinct classes of animals.

[stereologist]

On 12/14/2018 at 9:44 PM, TomHaider51 said:

How are you so sure said images were vandalized ?

The first clue from a petroglyph analysis is the lack of weathering consistent with the other images. The second is that it is known today that dinosaurs did not drag their tails. The same tail dragging dinosaurs are seen in old movies and in drawings made by westerners of the supposed African dinosaurs.

[stereologist]

On 12/15/2018 at 10:10 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Originally I posted the link about the 86% of species still left undiscovered only to show just how much we are missing in the plant and animal kingdom. That really does not directly apply to the animal in question in this thread because that species of animal (if it exists here) has already been proven to exist. Only ONE person in this thread caught that.

Anyway, to still defend my point: Top 5 Newly Discovered Animal Species 2018

But that doesn’t mean that we have got it all figured out. In 2017 alone, there were an astounding 18,000 new species discovered

My favorite is, of course, the new species , Tapanuli Orangutan.

I know there are some very knowledgable people in here, but in this discussion, I do not stand corrected.... I stand correct.

Peace  Love  Dove.

Again with the incompetence. There are 5 kingdoms, not just plants and animals. You left out fungi of which the paper supposes only 7% are known today.

All you do here is support the case that the animals are new species and well related to known species.

Thanks for posting evidence showing you are wrong.

[stereologist]

On 12/15/2018 at 12:55 PM, Jenn8779 said:

Sorry I just caught this....are fossils rare there because there weren't many dinosaurs living there or is it that the environment wasn't conducive to preserving/creating fossils?

Interesting idea. It could also be that rocks of that geological period are not common in that area. 

[stereologist]

On 12/17/2018 at 4:47 AM, DodgyDaoist said:

I used to wonder the same about those who dont, until i realised that not all people have a sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered.

Some people simply view life from a set box of dull factual parameters that they believe the world to be because that is what is taught, and like any belief structure, it shuts the mind to all that doesnt fit.

Some people take a look at stories and take the time to examine them. An examination of this story of sauropods in Africa quickly see holes in the story. 

Other people can't seem to apply filters and fall for every story put out to them. There really isn't any need to do that unless you want to be duped. 

Applying filters is normal and good practice.  This in no way shuts out legitimate ideas. 

Avoiding filters simply opens the flood gates to all sorts of nonsense.

This idea that people using filters do not have a "sense of wonder at the possibilities of the unknown or the undiscovered" is the sort of rubbish I hear from people that also try to pretend that scientists work in lockstep to shut out any ideas that are not the currently accepted ideas. The opposite is true. Scientists want to find mistakes in science and replace them with better ideas. Go ahead, try to think of a single famous scientist that did not overturn the accepted view of the world.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 12/17/2018 at 12:01 PM, Carnoferox said:

It is highly suspicious that the first mokele mbembe reports date to the height of the second Jurassic dinosaur rush, a time when the first sauropod skeletons were being mounted at American museums to popular acclaim, when Charles Knight was producing his classic artwork including swamp-dwelling, tail-dragging sauropods, and when the German expeditions in Tanzania were uncovering large sauropod fossils. The fact that the modern idea of the mokele mbembe originated with westerners is indisputable.

 

Basically, here is what you are saying... "the modern idea of mokele mbembe...."   - Yes, I agree. WESTERNER'S idea of the beast. But you evade the point

Can you show me that the locals had no clue about this beast?? I seriously doubt that. They've been there for 100,000 thousand years or more. 

And who named this beast, mokele mbembe?  Don't sound too Western to me.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

22 hours ago, Myles said:

Oh, they could definetely do better.   I still don't think they would find a bigfoot, loch ness monster or a large dinosaur in Africa.  However many believers would just add a characteristic or variable that would leave the existence open.   

Loch Ness - They preform a full sonar scan of the loch.  -  "Well maybe there is a cave underneath that it stay in or goes out to the ocean"

Bigfoot - The investigate a proposed nest and find no hair, prints or scat anywhere around it -  "Well maybe bigfoot knows better than to leave anything around a nest.   Maybe they do not shed hairs"

Dinosaur in Africa - Searchers have been unable to find any trace - "Well maybe they are nocturnal and no one can see them"

Serious question,Myles.  Why do people continue out there in search of this imaginary beast?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

5 hours ago, Myles said:

Do people really come here to hear people in agreement about everything?   Would it be better if we all posted stuff like:

It is so awesome that dinosaurs were able to survive the last 66 million years.   They are so cute roaming around Africa.  I want one as a pet. 

Myles, not sure here, but speaking for myself and likely all others, nobody has ever claimed positively that the beat exists.

But the skeptics, on the other hand, think so lowly of the idea that such a creature exists, they often get into throwing the snark around.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

4 hours ago, stereologist said:

Are you as incompetent as you post? The work as I posted in a quote is based on living classes, phylum, families. 

There is no inclusion of placoderms, dinosaurs or other extinct groups of animals or fungi or plants.

You are the one claiming dinosaurs is covered. Please show us where this link of yours covers dinosaurs and other extinct classes of animals.

One more time, YOU made the claim, YOU get the info.  No species is discluded. And BTW, Dinosaurs do exist today, in case you weren't aware.

[stereologist]

6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Serious question,Myles.  Why do people continue out there in search of this imaginary beast?

One of the reasons is creationists. There are groups that go there to show that the Earth is young.

http://creationwiki.org/Mokele-mbembe

[stereologist]

Let me repeat for you: The work includes currently living phylum, classes, families.

The work does not extrapolate from extinct phylums, extinct classes, extinct orders, or extinct families. The work extrapolate species numbers based on higher level taxonomic groupings.

The burden is still on you to understand the link you provided. 

[Kenemet]

5 hours ago, stereologist said:

The first clue from a petroglyph analysis is the lack of weathering consistent with the other images. The second is that it is known today that dinosaurs did not drag their tails. The same tail dragging dinosaurs are seen in old movies and in drawings made by westerners of the supposed African dinosaurs.

As someone who has studied rock art, I can confirm this.  A lot of the "ancient UFO/dinosaur" rock art is modern vandalization of a site or older works.  And some of it is the result of engaging in speculation with a pre-determined objective ("Indians totally did see aliens!") without actually bothering to talk to tribes that might have created the designs ("those are shamans with their spirit animals.")

[Carnoferox]

34 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Basically, here is what you are saying... "the modern idea of mokele mbembe...."   - Yes, I agree. WESTERNER'S idea of the beast. But you evade the point

Can you show me that the locals had no clue about this beast?? I seriously doubt that. They've been there for 100,000 thousand years or more. 

And who named this beast, mokele mbembe?  Don't sound too Western to me.

I'm not saying that natives had no knowledge of mystery animals, only that the idea of living sauropods in Africa is a colonial invention dating to the early 1900's. The name mokele mbembe originates from an unpublished 1913 report of a German expedition in Cameroon, which was first excerpted in Willy Ley's Exotic Zoology in 1959. There is no etymology given, so the true origin of that name is uncertain. 

[Carnoferox]

48 minutes ago, stereologist said:

One of the reasons is creationists. There are groups that go there to show that the Earth is young.

http://creationwiki.org/Mokele-mbembe

It seems that secular cryptozoologists have given up on the mokele mbembe and that creationists are the only ones still searching.

[stereologist]

43 minutes ago, Carnoferox said:

It seems that secular cryptozoologists have given up on the mokele mbembe and that creationists are the only ones still searching.

A few of these creationist expeditions have been in the news. Years back I remember a group returning of a tape of sounds from the jungle. That was it. I would think anything as large as a sauropod would leave signs of food consumption. It's pretty easy to find signs of bear, raccoon, opossum, deer, and bird life as they feed where I live. These folks came back with nothing like that. They should have been able to find areas of browsing or grazing. They should have located scat. They should have located scat.  We locate birds hidden in trees by all pointing towards the sound. It is easy for the group to figure out which branch to scan for the bird. The same could be done to locate the source of the sound, then search that area.

https://www.icr.org/article/search-congo-dinosaur/

Lots of stories here about almost getting the evidence. As Max Smart used to say, "Missed it by that much."

[oldrover]

On 17/12/2018 at 5:52 AM, Carnoferox said:

No, it's about overcoming the common mindset that historical context is irrelevant to examining past cryptozooological encounters. Like ignoring the influence of contemporary dinosaur depictions while looking at old mokele mbembe reports, for example.

And the inherent colonial attitudes in depicting Africa as a dark, savage, and primeval continent.