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joc

The Science of Diet and Nutrition

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XenoFish

Basically I took the idea presented here. And applied it to two meals instead of one. Because I'm lazy and hate restrictions, and calorie counting. 

Edited by XenoFish
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joc

I'm going with whatever I feel like eating when I am hungry...and staying around 2000 calories.  But...zero sugar, zero dairy, zero chips...I'm really limited in my choices.

So this morning I had a 5 egg omelet...but only included one yolk...so four eggwhites and one whole egg.  A large piece of sourdough bread toast...no butter.

One large egg ...egg white only has 17 calories...one egg yolk has 55...and I included a piece of ham in my omelet.  230 calories (including the olive oil I cooked it in) and 120 calories for the piece of toast.  All in all a huge breakfast...but only 350 calories.  I probably won't be hungry again until lunch...but if I am...I have carrots int he fridge or celery sticks...or...I might eat an apple.

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joc
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Basically I took the idea presented here. And applied it to two meals instead of one. Because I'm lazy and hate restrictions, and calorie counting. 

The problem I see in that is ....as you said...you are an active person.   And an active persons body needs fuel throughout the day.  

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, joc said:

The problem I see in that is ....as you said...you are an active person.   And an active persons body needs fuel throughout the day.  

That's just it. I'm burning through my fat reserves.

Effects of 18 hour fasting.

I'm hitting this at the 11-12 hour mark.

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XenoFish

I'm not saying that people should eat like I do. The only reason I eat this way is due to my intestinal issue. I find that 2 meals gives me time to thoroughly digest food, so I don't hurt. 

We all have to find what works for each of us.

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joc
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

I'm not saying that people should eat like I do. The only reason I eat this way is due to my intestinal issue. I find that 2 meals gives me time to thoroughly digest food, so I don't hurt. 

We all have to find what works for each of us.

This is so true! We all are different. What ever works to make one healthy!  That's kind of where I am going with this.  I just listened to a video and it is very interesting. 

Fasting vs. Eating Less: What's the Difference? (Science of Fasting)

Talks alot about ketosis..

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joc

There are so many myths concerning diet out there.  Breaking the myths apart is necessary to become healthy...and...being healthy is  more than just not being overweight.  Admittedly, a lot of the myths are just in my own head...what I believed to be true about dieting, nutrition, etc.  So, in reality, I am attempting to clear my own head of the myths...and also..help others clear their own heads of the myths.

Like the ...breathetarian.....he wasn't living off of air and sunshine...he was living off his own fat reserves.

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spartan max2

I think one of the biggest health myths is that eggs are bad for you.

Eggs got a bad rep because of all the cholesterol in them, but studies now show that eating cholesteral does not really effect your own cholesteral, and that not all fat is bad fat.

Eggs are a good source of protien and have a lot of nutrients in them.

Edited by spartan max2
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joc

There is still a lot of controversy on eggs...

But the more I read, the better I feel about them as well.

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Jenn8779

Great topic! I think we need to keep a balance in our diets, for one thing. I try to follow the "80/20" rule, meaning 80 percent healthy and 20 percent whatever I feel like eating. LoL

A friend and I were recently talking about food and illness. We definitely have too much processed foods and too much preservatives and unnecessary additives, such as sugar and salt. I grew up on a farm and we grew vegetables, fruit and nuts. I ate a lot of raw veggies and fruit and still do. I actually prefer a lot of veggies uncooked. I don't really think about calories when eating them, just mostly about how many "colors" I can eat every day. Meaning nutritional content and vitamins from natural healthy food. If at all possible, I try to make meals from scratch to control how much salt, sugar, etc goes into what I'm eating. I never even had any McDonald's or fast food till I went to elementary school. 

All that being said though, I love me some Philly cheesesteak and am damn glad I live in the Philly area! If I'm going to indulge with junk that's going to be what I go for....accompanied by a nice cold beer! LOL

 

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joc
34 minutes ago, Jenn8779 said:

We definitely have too much processed foods and too much preservatives and unnecessary additives, such as sugar and salt.

There is an incredible amount of  confusion because there is an incredible amount of misinformation/disinformation.  I am currently looking at a video about the dangers of wheat.  Dangers? of Wheat??   

 

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ouija ouija
On 12/14/2018 at 1:14 PM, joc said:

I am very interested in it! Thanks.  So...I have never been obese...but I have had some problems with weight from time to time.  I was overweight...not grossly...but still...overweight the entire time I was involved full-board in Taekwondo.  It was only when I decided to go Zero Sugar that I actually slimmed down to a very low fat % of body weight.  But somewhere along the way...I got lazy...and so...I am embarking again on that Zero Sugar idea.

It isn't easy...in fact...it is damn hard.  Not to conceptualize but to actually do.  Because sugar is SO pervasive.  But when you think about it...what are your options for eating with Zero sugar...and I am specifically talking about fructose sugar....table sugar,  HFCS, Corn Syrup, etc.  All that is left to eat really is Meat, Dairy, Fruits, Vegetables and Eggs.  My father once told me...Eggs are dairy...you said you aren't eating any dairy products..well..eggs are dairy products. lol

Sugar is like...probably the most addictive substance on the planet!

I went Zero Sugar in the Spring this year, fell off the wagon during the Summer, back on again in October. In that time I've shed 11 lbs, so it's been slow but in all that time I haven't put any weight back on. You're right, it's hard to do because sugar of some sort is in absolutely everything  and I wonder why because half the time you can't taste it. I never crave sugary things, it's just very difficult to avoid the damn stuff!

I agree, sugar is addictive and I wonder why it isn't banned for the under 18s. It does a helluva lot of harm, not least that it encourages a life time of unhealthy eating.    

On 12/15/2018 at 3:34 PM, joc said:

Yep.  I had it in my head that calories are calories...So...I also was limiting my caloric intake to around 1800.  But I was trying to incorporate drinking beer into that 1800.  And so it would go like this...eat some really healthy stuff...make room for some ice cream...and beer.  Hey, I am right at 1800 and it's bed time...I done good!   Except I wasn't losing any weight.  But then...I said, screw it I am just going to eat whatever whenever and drink and not worry about it and see what happens...bam...an additional 15 pounds in a very short period of time.

So...now....zero alcohol, zero sugar, zero dairy...and that narrows the entire food choice down to ...Eggs, Meat, Fruits, Vegetables, Nuts...but I'm allergic to nuts so...all of the choices I am now making are being made toward...what makes me healthier according to how the body processes the foods...I'm not even counting calories...because the goal is to make my body create muscle cells and use the energy of fat cells to do it.

I found calorie counting helpful in the past because it was a real wake-up call as to just how many calories were in that small potato, or one biscuit, or that ever so narrow slice of pizza! I lost some weight through calorie counting but in the end I just got fed up writing down every mouthful I ate. I tried having one day 'off' per week when I allowed myself sugary things and although I didn't eat much on that day off, I found it set off a craving for sugar again that I had to fight until the next day off came around.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:11 PM, joc said:

I'm going with whatever I feel like eating when I am hungry...and staying around 2000 calories.  But...zero sugar, zero dairy, zero chips...I'm really limited in my choices.

So this morning I had a 5 egg omelet...but only included one yolk...so four eggwhites and one whole egg.  A large piece of sourdough bread toast...no butter.

One large egg ...egg white only has 17 calories...one egg yolk has 55...and I included a piece of ham in my omelet.  230 calories (including the olive oil I cooked it in) and 120 calories for the piece of toast.  All in all a huge breakfast...but only 350 calories.  I probably won't be hungry again until lunch...but if I am...I have carrots int he fridge or celery sticks...or...I might eat an apple.

This is what I am aiming for at the moment: zero sugar, vegan, raw, organic, drinking only spring water. So far, I can say my diet is more satisfying and therefore I'm not fighting cravings all day.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:14 PM, joc said:

The problem I see in that is ....as you said...you are an active person.   And an active persons body needs fuel throughout the day.  

That's what I struggled with when I was calorie counting(to lose weight), I was always hungry. I'd get through to the evening within my quota of calories and then it would all fall apart because I felt miserable with hunger.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:25 PM, XenoFish said:

I'm not saying that people should eat like I do. The only reason I eat this way is due to my intestinal issue. I find that 2 meals gives me time to thoroughly digest food, so I don't hurt. 

We all have to find what works for each of us.

That's great if you've found a regime that keeps the calories under control but also keeps your medical issue 'happy'.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:30 PM, joc said:

This is so true! We all are different. What ever works to make one healthy!  That's kind of where I am going with this. 

And it can take years and years to find what is best for you and is do-able long term.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:35 PM, joc said:

There are so many myths concerning diet out there.  Breaking the myths apart is necessary to become healthy...and...being healthy is  more than just not being overweight.  Admittedly, a lot of the myths are just in my own head...what I believed to be true about dieting, nutrition, etc.  So, in reality, I am attempting to clear my own head of the myths...and also..help others clear their own heads of the myths.

Like the ...breathetarian.....he wasn't living off of air and sunshine...he was living off his own fat reserves.

To go back to your OP, joc, I don't really think it is a case of 'what is real vs what is a myth' because there is such a huge span of variety of diet that sustains human life. Think about the people in the far north who eat little else but fish and meat; the nomads on the steppes who ate a lot of dairy products and meat, presumably no fruit and only the smallest amount of herbs and root vegetables. Think of how picky some (many?), children can be about their food and yet they grow and thrive and don't stand out from their peers as malnourished. It makes me think that the human body is incredibly flexible with regard to diet as long as the food we do eat is real nourishment ...... something that the body can use. This would mean food that was raw, chemical-free, and fresh, plus, pure water. 

Science never has the complete picture, it's never completely right .... it's just a snapshot of what scientists have seen(or think they've seen!), this far. They change/modify their thinking all the time, nowhere more than with regard to what we eat.

edit to say: meant to say 'thank you' for this thread :D

and editing again to say: I currently take medication for Type 2 diabetes and hypothyroidism. I'm hoping to reverse both these conditions through diet.

Edited by ouija ouija
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Jenn8779
2 hours ago, joc said:

There is an incredible amount of  confusion because there is an incredible amount of misinformation/disinformation.  I am currently looking at a video about the dangers of wheat.  Dangers? of Wheat??   

 

LOL... I know. It's sad how much out there is wrong and/or misinterpreted. But the argument about wheat is very similar to what you said about oranges. I love bread and my favorite is any type of rye. But for a good old-fashioned grilled cheese, I like it best on white bread. However I'm not sitting down and eating 10 of them. I know there's folks who can't tolerate gluten. But I also wonder how many people have overloaded with white flour to the point they can no longer tolerate it. This goes back to balance, moderation and variety. When the FDA recommended "X" number of servings falling into the "bread, grains, cereals" category, they weren't talking only white bread, white flour based pastas and cereals. 

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joc
On 12/16/2018 at 3:17 PM, Jenn8779 said:

LOL... I know. It's sad how much out there is wrong and/or misinterpreted. But the argument about wheat is very similar to what you said about oranges. I love bread and my favorite is any type of rye. But for a good old-fashioned grilled cheese, I like it best on white bread. However I'm not sitting down and eating 10 of them. I know there's folks who can't tolerate gluten. But I also wonder how many people have overloaded with white flour to the point they can no longer tolerate it. This goes back to balance, moderation and variety. When the FDA recommended "X" number of servings falling into the "bread, grains, cereals" category, they weren't talking only white bread, white flour based pastas and cereals. 

Nutritionally speaking...our bodies are complex machines that need a variety of different fuels.  There are the dangers of wheat studies, the dangers of cheese studies, the dangers of sugar studies, etc. Moderation and Variety...the keys to nutritional health.  A grilled cheese sammy is not going to make one fat or unhealthy.  But a grilled cheese sammy, washing it down with Sugary Soda, followed by a slice of pie or a handful of chocolate, followed later by a bag of chips, followed later by a pizza, followed later by ice-cream, followed later by more pizza....day in and day out...habitually choosing sugar and fat over natural foods...that is what makes us unhealthy and fat.

I've already said this but...if we simply chose a zero sugar diet...most of the aisles at the grocery stores would never even be visited.  If we eliminate sugar in all it's processed forms...Table Sugar, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Corn Syrup, Honey, etc....the list of foods available for us to consume becomes quite limited.  Meats, Vegetables, Eggs, Dairy, Grains, Nuts...there just isn't a lot left.

If we just eliminated sugar in all of its various forms, and alcohol from our intake....we would become healthier, wealthier, wiser, slimmer,  and ...the most important thing on that list...healthier.  Healthier.   More Healthy.  Feel Better.  Less Sickness.  Strong Bodies.  Strong minds.  

That being said...a little bit of anything isn't going to hurt us...but...some things are more addictive than we realize.  Sugar is addictive.  Probably the most addictive substance on the planet...which is why Zero Sugar is, in my opinion, the best way to go.  

If anyone really wants to know just exactly how addictive sugar is...go Zero Sugar for at least one month and you will quickly discover how those cookies, chocolates, and everything else taunts you.

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Golden Duck

There’s A War On Sugar. Is It Justified?

Quote

...

DUBNER: One last question, perhaps ridiculous or impossible: let’s say we’re in a world where you could edit genes quite easily. It seems we’re not that far from it. Whether we’re talking about a 50-year-old person or azygote. How would you consider editing the genes related to what seems to be a craving, perhaps even dangerous craving for sugar?

LUSTIG: That’s a really tough question. We don’t want to turn off our reward system entirely. If we do, we get into trouble. We actually did this. We did this experiment with a medicine back in the early 2000s. That medicine was called Rimonabant . What it was was it was the anti-marijuana medicine. It blocked the endo-cannabinoid receptors in the brain, and by doing so reduced reward for alcohol and for food. In fact, people who took Rimonabant lost a fair amount of weight. It looked very promising. Until we started looking at the Phase 3 data and started realizing that a lot of these people became severely depressed, and many of them committed suicide. We didn’t realize it, until we did those Phase 3 trial. It was never approved here in the United States. Bottom line is, if you take away a reward, you take away the reason for living. Be careful about gene editing our rewards system.

...

LUSTIG: Sugar’s celebratory! Sugar’s fun! Sugar’s Apple Pie. Sugar is reward — but once a week.

...

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/theres-war-sugar-justified/

It looks like Lustig is suggesting sugar consumption by about  a third.

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aztek

our body turns alcohol and cabs  along with other foods, into sugar, we do not need to eat actual sugar, our body can get it all it needs from fruits, grains..... 

cancer cells and candida love sugar

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White Crane Feather
Posted (edited)
On 12/14/2018 at 4:16 AM, joc said:

The word Sugar is really a thing that needs to be defined.  There is Ethanol, Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose... So let's start with Table Sugar.  Table sugar is Sucrose.  Sucrose is made up of one molecule of Glucose and one molecule of Fructose.  The body deals with these two types of 'sugar' in different ways. Fructose is in honey, it's in Fruit Juice, it's in High Fructose Corn Syrup...it is what makes the really sweet stuff sweet.   As the video shows, Glucose and Fructose affect the Liver in different ways.  Only about 20% of Glucose will actually hit the liver because the other 80% is absorbed by the other cells in your body.  About 80% of Ethanol (alcohol) is processed by the liver.  Almost 100% of Fructose is processed by the liver.

The real science of the sugars effects on the body is what the video is really about....What happens in the liver, how it causes the pancreas to produce insulin, etc.   Basically, Fructose is not necessary and the body sees it as a foreign substance, a toxin that needs to be dealt with.  

So....we don't need Fructose to live.  We don't need Ethanol to live.  We need Glucose.  Glucose is found in carbohydrates and starches.  

The real difference between sugar and HFCS (high fructose corn syrup) is that sugar is about half Glucose.  HFCS has zero glucose ...all Fructose.  And if you look at the ingredients of practically everything we eat...there is either sugar, or HFCS or both.  

The distinction of glucos being in complex carbohydrates needs to be made. Complex corbihydrates just like fats are converted into glucos for use in cellular activity. Glucos itself is a little different, and insulin is released to process excess glucos. This is important because the insulin molecule reacts to a lot of glucos and complex carbohydrates take longer to digest and be converted. The insulin molecule converts the excess glucos into storage fat, but it is also a very abrasive molecule causeing inflammation of veins and arteries. The scar tissue that develops acts as the catch for plaque. In the old days, they thought hindensity lipo proteins were those clause of excess plaque build up because plaque is made of it, but as it turns out, it always been to much glucos thus to much insalin the entire time. 

Suger as an inflamitory substance is rarely talked about, but It causes so many problems even pain. To be specific, it’s insilin that is inflammatory, and once someone has developed insilin tolerance and need more and more of it, they are on a vicious path. 

Inflamation is a whole other issue.

there are studies out now where scientist have been giving organisms Ibporofrin over their life cycles and there’s is about a 17% increase in life expectancy. 

The studies are not promoting lifetime use of ibprofrin only demonstrating the effect of inflammation on our cells typically the result of excess sugar. 

Edited by White Crane Feather

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White Crane Feather
Posted (edited)

According to a lot of research, now a high good fat with plenty of excercises and veggies of course is the way to go these days. You have to be careful though. Trans fats are causing a lot of problems, and corn or grain raised meats do not have the same composition of fats as grass fed or wild meats. Obviously our omega 3s from fish is always good as long and we avoid the risk of toxic metals. 

Instead of “I can’t believe it’s not butter.” It should be “I hope it is real butter, from a good source.”

One of the biggest mistakes we have made in nutrition is the demonization of fat, and then filling it with sugar products to make up for the loss of taste and volume. 

Edited by White Crane Feather
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