Trump considers Syria withdrawal

[Tiggs]

President Trump is considering pulling 2,000 United States ground troops out of Syria in a move that would seek to describe the four-year American-led war against the Islamic State as largely won, officials said Wednesday.

“We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency,” the president said in a Twitter post on Wednesday morning. He offered no details on his plans for the military mission in Syria.
...

But Pentagon officials were still trying to talk the president out of the decision early Wednesday morning, arguing that such a move would betray Kurdish allies who have fought alongside American troops in Syria and who could find themselves under attack in a military offensive now threatened by Turkey.

Source: The New York Times

[The Caspian Hare]

Quick, get the fainting couches and the smelling salts.  The neocons are going to need them.

Now tie up John Bolton and stuff him in a broom closet until this happens.

[aztek]

pentagon is right about Kurds, they will be slaughtered by Turks, by what is left of isis (which will get much stronger when we leave), by Syrian forces.  4 years and all the loses will be made pointless. and all of it just to please few liberals.

Edited December 19, 2018 by aztek

[+and-then]

33 minutes ago, aztek said:

pentagon is right about Kurds, they will be slaughtered by Turks, by what is left of isis (which will get much stronger when we leave), by Syrian forces.  4 years and all the loses will be made pointless. and all of it just to please few liberals.

He hasn't twigged to the reality yet.  This isn't a conflict that is going to be "won".  It is a long, hard test of wills and tenacity.  If he leaves now, the Kurds will be sacrificed in a gruesome way and will probably become an enemy after being the only true friend we had in the region - outside Israel.  The Israelis will be pushed into conflict against Iranian convoys of weapons and troops moving into the region.  If he pulls them out, it will be like waving a white flag and inviting Russia, Iran, and Turkey to consolidate their military position.  He will have shown himself to be as foolish as Obama.  He will also stiffen Netanyahu's spine against the peace deal at exactly the wrong moment.  I think we'll see the region on fire shortly after he withdraws.  Israel will gain no advantage by waiting while their enemies strengthen their positions.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!   Speechless.     Not really, LOL

I feel bad for the Kurds but the US cannot be expected to protect everyone in the world. And we won't go up against ally, Turkey. We have air bases there.

It's funny how the US is very selective as to who we attack and who we protect. They always seem to make a case for some ME nation.

I remember when the Hutu slaughtered 750,000 Tutsi minority in Rwanda.  Did the US do anything about it...?   NOPE.

War torn Iraq, Syria, or Afghanistan... ? Youbetcha!!!  

 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, and then said:

He hasn't twigged to the reality yet.  This isn't a conflict that is going to be "won".  It is a long, hard test of wills and tenacity.  If he leaves now, the Kurds will be sacrificed in a gruesome way and will probably become an enemy after being the only true friend we had in the region - outside Israel.  The Israelis will be pushed into conflict against Iranian convoys of weapons and troops moving into the region.  If he pulls them out, it will be like waving a white flag and inviting Russia, Iran, and Turkey to consolidate their military position.  He will have shown himself to be as foolish as Obama.  He will also stiffen Netanyahu's spine against the peace deal at exactly the wrong moment.  I think we'll see the region on fire shortly after he withdraws.  Israel will gain no advantage by waiting while their enemies strengthen their positions.

As long as it is not OUR fire, and then, then I can sleep easy at night. We have to stop making excuses to invade country X, at some point.

Also, Russia and Turkey are big trade partners with each other and have good relations. You want the US to stay there and further wave the red flag in front of the Russian bull??

I mean, our geniuses in Washington are **begging** to get it on with Russia. We should be careful what we ask for.

[Jon the frog]

With the real border messed up in the last century wars by European nations... the problems will never be solved in the region if we don't let them settle things by themselves.

Quite harsh for different minorities, but destroying their infrastructures, beheading their governments and meddling with all what they are doing just make things worse. Look at the state of Irak and Lebanon for example.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Jon the frog

[+and-then]

32 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

As long as it is not OUR fire, and then, then I can sleep easy at night. We have to stop making excuses to invade country X, at some point.

Also, Russia and Turkey are big trade partners with each other and have good relations. You want the US to stay there and further wave the red flag in front of the Russian bull??

I mean, our geniuses in Washington are **begging** to get it on with Russia. We should be careful what we ask for.

In a perfect world, I'd agree with you totally.  I'm just explaining what I believe about the current state of affairs in the region.  It is not only counterproductive to walk away, but it is also actually dangerous.  When a president, ANY president goes against the cumulative knowledge and expertise of his generals and takes such precipitous action, he must be held responsible for the aftermath.  If he goes through with this idiocy, then we'll look back and see that he lost any chance of reelection on this date.  Far worse than that, we may very well be drawn much deeper into the "fire" when Israel mobilizes against her existential threats.  The world is going to be amazed at the destruction that will occur there in a brief time.  That's not some Biblical allusion this time, just plain talk about her military capabilities.

Iran is tightening a noose around Israel's neck, partially in response to Trump's sanctions.  Israel has allowed their public image to stay their defensive posture for so long that now they will suffer grievous casualties when this inevitable war begins.  The longer they wait, the higher the butcher's bill will be.  Those couple of thousand U.S. troops were like the troops in SK.  They served as a tripwire and a warning of intent.  Unless he plans to use Iranian aggression against Israel to justify an attack on Iran itself, Israel will be faced with plunging into a war against all the Iranian proxies that surround her on every side AND possibly launching attacks against Iran itself.  If this happens, the citizens of Gaza and southern Lebanon are about to experience hell on earth.  A true calamity awaits them and no screaming and shouting at the UN will save them from it.  

It will be an incredibly irresponsible act by Trump IF he goes through with it.  I just heard a radio report that he plans the withdrawal to begin within 24 hours.  That "Russian bull" is a paper tiger.  Yes, Putin talks like he can destroy us if we resist but he isn't insane.  He knows quite well that MAD is as effective as it ever was.  It is Iran's schemes that will lead to a regional holocaust.  When Israel inevitably strikes at Iran's moves in Syria, if Russia attacks Israeli aircraft then this whole scenario may become a very real and dangerous escalation.  I still don't believe Putin is that unstable.  He HAS to understand that the IDF will, CAN, only defer action just so far.  

I agree that we need to be mindful of what we ask for.  Such a withdrawal, done in such a way, is tantamount to surrender and that always leads to further aggression.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

14 minutes ago, and then said:

In a perfect world, I'd agree with you totally.  I'm just explaining what I believe about the current state of affairs in the region.  It is not only counterproductive to walk away, but it is also actually dangerous.

It's dangerous for who, and then?  Certainly the Kurds but certainly not the US. I don't want another 911 on our hands just because we chose to protect "other people".

14 minutes ago, and then said:

  When a president, ANY president goes against the cumulative knowledge and expertise of his generals and takes such precipitous action, he must be held responsible for the aftermath.  If he goes through with this idiocy, then we'll look back and see that he lost any chance of reelection on this date. 

and then, Trump promised to look out for "American interests" and he is doing it with this decision, IMO. Further... "the knowledge and expertise of his Generals"...., Really? Are these the morons that immediately dropped bombs on Syria for their use of sarin gas? And then we find out *after* the investigation, there was NO SUCH GAS used. These are people with an itchy trigger finger and I just don't trust them. Everything looks like cause for a war to them.

14 minutes ago, and then said:

Far worse than that, we may very well be drawn much deeper into the "fire" when Israel mobilizes against her existential threats.  The world is going to be amazed at the destruction that will occur there in a brief time.  That's not some Biblical allusion this time, just plain talk about her military capabilities.

I could care less what Israel does. but that's just me.

14 minutes ago, and then said:

Iran is tightening a noose around Israel's neck, partially in response to Trump's sanctions.  Israel has allowed their public image to stay their defensive posture for so long that now they will suffer grievous casualties when this inevitable war begins.  The longer they wait, the higher the butcher's bill will be.  Those couple of thousand U.S. troops were like the troops in SK.  They served as a tripwire and a warning of intent.

Well, I am not happy with our troops being on the NK border for 60 years either, so... LOL

14 minutes ago, and then said:

  Unless he plans to use Iranian aggression against Israel to justify an attack on Iran itself, Israel will be faced with plunging into a war against all the Iranian proxies that surround her on every side AND possibly launching attacks against Iran itself.  If this happens, the citizens of Gaza and southern Lebanon are about to experience hell on earth.  A true calamity awaits them and no screaming and shouting at the UN will save them from it.  

I won't say that doesn't all bother me, but I will say, WE DIDN'T START IT.  And if we really have to go in later, so be it.

14 minutes ago, and then said:

It will be an incredibly irresponsible act by Trump IF he goes through with it.  I just heard a radio report that he plans the withdrawal to begin within 24 hours.  That "Russian bull" is a paper tiger.  Yes, Putin talks like he can destroy us if we resist but he isn't insane.  He knows quite well that MAD is as effective as it ever was.  It is Iran's schemes that will lead to a regional holocaust. 

As you may have seen in another post, what did the US do when 750,000 Tutsis were being slaughtered? Absolutely nothing.  But we'll see.

14 minutes ago, and then said:

When Israel inevitably strikes at Iran's moves in Syria, if Russia attacks Israeli aircraft then this whole scenario may become a very real and dangerous escalation.  I still don't believe Putin is that unstable.  He HAS to understand that the IDF will, CAN, only defer action just so far.  

I agree that we need to be mindful of what we ask for.  Such a withdrawal, done in such a way, is tantamount to surrender and that always leads to further aggression.

Let WWIII break out *their* terms, not ours.

You have decent points but in my opinion, I think Trump is clearly looking out for US interests by getting the hell out of harms way.

[The Caspian Hare]

1 hour ago, and then said:

In a perfect world, I'd agree with you totally.  I'm just explaining what I believe about the current state of affairs in the region.  It is not only counterproductive to walk away, but it is also actually dangerous.  When a president, ANY president goes against the cumulative knowledge and expertise of his generals and takes such precipitous action, he must be held responsible for the aftermath.  If he goes through with this idiocy, then we'll look back and see that he lost any chance of reelection on this date.  Far worse than that, we may very well be drawn much deeper into the "fire" when Israel mobilizes against her existential threats.  The world is going to be amazed at the destruction that will occur there in a brief time.  That's not some Biblical allusion this time, just plain talk about her military capabilities.

 

Oh good lord, man, Israel Israel Israel. How much has our one-sided support for this little country cost us? How many enemies have they created for us? Iran is two countries away, can't sustain conventional operations at a distance and can only fight through third parties. This isn't the Third Reich here.

I voted for America first, not Israel first. Israel needs to get by without our assistance. And if they intend to do that by turning their neighbors into 'hell on Earth', maybe you need to reevaluate who the real rogue nation is.

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I could care less what Israel does. but that's just me.

We're talking about 2,000 troops.  It's the message he's sending about the region that will lead to the firestorm.  I get that you don't support Israel, no problem.  If Israel is struck by say, chemical weapons out of Syrian territory and they NUKE Damascus in exchange, will you still be as sanguine about us stepping aside?  The days of living in isolation and letting a power vacuum exist in that region are long over.  SOMEONE is going to dominate and when they push Israel too far there will be war.  I think it would be in the global interest to stop that in its tracks if we could.  Frankly, I believe such a war to be inevitable, it's only the timing that isn't sure.  Maybe we're about to get that answer.

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, The Caspian Hare said:

Oh good lord, man, Israel Israel Israel. How much has our one-sided support for this little country cost us? How many enemies have they created for us? Iran is two countries away, can't sustain conventional operations at a distance and can only fight through third parties. This isn't the Third Reich here.

I voted for America first, not Israel first. Israel needs to get by without our assistance. And if they intend to do that by turning their neighbors into 'hell on Earth', maybe you need to reevaluate who the real rogue nation is.

When a neighbor threatens my life and the lives of my family and then proceeds to act on the threat, I'd say it's the NEIGHBOR who's asking for the ass whipping.  They're about to get it, whether we are involved or not.  You might want to consider that the IDF has the capacity to lay the entire region waste if necessary.  If Iran's proxies begin a combined missile assault then it's quite possible that we will see wholesale slaughter there.  BOTH sides.  If you feel the need to remain in denial about Iran's nuclear ambitions then there's no reasoning with you.  I get it:  ISRAEL BAD.  The world may be about to see just how true that is.  Maybe it's time.

 

 

[The Caspian Hare]

6 minutes ago, and then said:

When a neighbor threatens my life and the lives of my family and then proceeds to act on the threat, I'd say it's the NEIGHBOR who's asking for the ass whipping.  They're about to get it, whether we are involved or not.  You might want to consider that the IDF has the capacity to lay the entire region waste if necessary.  If Iran's proxies begin a combined missile assault then it's quite possible that we will see wholesale slaughter there.  BOTH sides.  If you feel the need to remain in denial about Iran's nuclear ambitions then there's no reasoning with you.  I get it:  ISRAEL BAD.  The world may be about to see just how true that is.  Maybe it's time.

 

 

Good or bad is relative, fact is that conventionally they outclass all their neighbor, all of whom are either internally weak or in chaos, and have nuclear weapons, which we do not allow any others to have. How about let them defend themselves and leave us out of it? Meddling int he Middle East has gotten us nothing but grief. I would have no problem with ISrael if they did not have such a powerful grip on our foreign policy, but somehow all their crises turn into our crisis. 

[Gromdor]

Leaving Syria would be nice.  Not leaving the Syrians and Kurds we had fight for us to die would be nice too though.

[ExpandMyMind]

1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Leaving Syria would be nice.  Not leaving the Syrians and Kurds we had fight for us to die would be nice too though.

Well Trump had to get Putin something for Xmas.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, The Caspian Hare said:

Good or bad is relative, fact is that conventionally they outclass all their neighbor, all of whom are either internally weak or in chaos, and have nuclear weapons, which we do not allow any others to have. How about let them defend themselves and leave us out of it? Meddling int he Middle East has gotten us nothing but grief. I would have no problem with ISrael if they did not have such a powerful grip on our foreign policy, but somehow all their crises turn into our crisis. 

I understand your concerns and your opinion about Israel.  I openly support Israel but my concern with this move is less about Israel's survival and more about the potential for a regional conflict to escalate into a global one.  Especially when a token force in place as a buffer could prevent it.  If we leave and the region deteriorates into war with Israel, do you expect the U.S. to simply stand back and watch?  If you are correct about the influence Israel exercises in our government, isn't it far more likely that we would mobilize to come to their assistance?  Possibly even get into a tit for tat with Russia?  I think it could easily escalate over simple mistakes.  Not to mention the effect of war there on gas prices.  The economic damage could be catastrophic if it went on for months.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Well Trump had to get Putin something for Xmas.

yeah, yeah, yeah. and if Trump sent more troops - "Trump's a butcher and war a monger trying to start WWIII"

I know the drill, EMM.  We all do.

[+Hammerclaw]

Let the incessant internecine conflict in the Levant bleed Russia, not America. The place--despite our best efforts--will go to Hell in a hand basket, with or without us there. Russia wanted to play soldier with the big boys; well, let us let them find out how fun it really is in the long run. 

 

 

https://youtu.be/8qPUJhy0Dz4

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[Raptor Witness]

This is another gift to Russia, likely in exchange for future capital when the impeachment is over. Or perhaps, like Snowden, Trump plans to live in Russia, rather than face the music.

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Raptor Witness

[RAyMO]

sooner or later those that align themselves with the US in conflicts such as this are going to say NO - can't trust the US when the chips are down. The Kurds will be fully entitled to feel 'sold out'

[bee]

14 hours ago, The Caspian Hare said:

Quick, get the fainting couches and the smelling salts.  The neocons are going to need them.

 

and the pseudo liberals..... who now cheer on war..... (like Mia Farrow - see vid below) 

I believe Trump to be less of a warmonger than any recent presidents or would be presidents
*coughhillarycough*  because he has a mind of his own and is less tied up with the tentacles
of the Military Industrial Complex..... BUT..... he knows that the economy is all interwoven with
the military and weapons and war... so he has to do a balancing act to keep the economy afloat and 
improving while his enemies try to destroy him ...

I like Jimmy Dore's analysis - as always he isn't afraid to say what he thinks and isn't fooled by the
Russia Russia Russia hysteria that constantly rears it's head....
 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by bee

[RoofGardener]

The Kurds are not - and have never been - friends of the USA. it is merely that they are enemies of the USA's enemies. At least as far as ISIS is concerned. 

I agree with Hammerclaw. Let Russia get bogged down in another Afghanistan in Syria. The USA is wise to withdraw. 

[bee]

3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The Kurds are not - and have never been - friends of the USA. it is merely that they are enemies of the USA's enemies. At least as far as ISIS is concerned. 

I agree with Hammerclaw. Let Russia get bogged down in another Afghanistan in Syria. The USA is wise to withdraw. 

 

Isn't it more or less understood now that under the New World Order supporting presidents like Obama... 
ISIS was used as a proxy army to destabilize the Middle East and to help create the Sunni / Saudi lead 
Islamic State that would be part of the new geopolitics of the future One World Government.... 

Russia pulled the brakes on that in Syria and we have them to thank that ISIS has not over run the whole
of Syria..... Not sure how Syria and Russia are going to sort the Kurds place out in all this.... but I don't think
they will just leave them to the  wolves.... ? 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

There will be a rapprochement of the Kurds with Damascus as Syria reasserts control of it's national borders to thwart Turkish encroachment. The rag-tag groups of rebels will be a liability to Istanbul who supported them. Russia will be pulled this way and that by conflicting national interests, wanting to maintain their foothold in Syria without losing their trading ties with Turkey. Daesh--what's left of it-- will try to regroup and become a thorn in Russia's side to be hammered, incessantly by Russian and Syrian forces. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

sooner or later those that align themselves with the US in conflicts such as this are going to say NO - can't trust the US when the chips are down. The Kurds will be fully entitled to feel 'sold out'

If we are in a conflict for total victory, we don't need anyone else. If victory isn't the goal, we don't need to be in an armed conflict in the first place. It's time to end our participation in Obama's reluctant war.