Why Do We Believe in ghosts ?

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

The scientist say they believe in the existence of paralel worlds the "ghosts" might be a visitor from that world and The human mind is a terrible thing to taste it can sometimes glitch , we can see things that doesn't exist.  also for the very same reason that we or some believe in god.  Many people have seen ghost i saw one once and have experienced weird things maybe my mind played tricks on me or maybe not.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Avalanche

[MindfulInquirer]

23 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I don’t know about that. We can yearn for an objective spiritual reality but I don’t see why that must translate into the existence of the spiritual reality.

It's akin to the standard debate between theists and atheists: the theist says, there are moral laws and therefor a law giver, and the atheists say there are moral laws but there isn't necessarily a law giver.

I would say that I've become in time a lot less categorical and less to the letter because that is ultimately confinement with oneself), and have lent my ears (and mind) to 'the natural sounds of the world'.

The idea that a collection of individuals will fabricate their monsters on their own, sure we've got those. But when many human beings, from all over the world, swear they've seen ghosts/or dwell in these dark parts, I say there's at least one thing I take out of that ...that is true and real. That thing I take out of it, may not be literal (believing literally a graveyard ghost story), but will tell me there are occurrences, on some level. I end with this: those occurrences may be a number of things.... but they can't be: nothing.

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, MindfulInquirer said:

those occurrences may be a number of things.... but they can't be: nothing.

Just my 2 cents and you can do what you wish with it. In regards to personal paranormal experiences. Always do whatever is needed to eliminate all mundane and normal explanations and solutions before assuming anything metaphysical/paranormal/supernatural. It is often a stumbling block to put belief first and reason second. One must be certain that those creaky floor boards are just loose rather than Casper the Friendly Demon. Plus you have to give a lot of leeway to our imaginations. We are best at fooling ourselves.

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

25 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Just my 2 cents and you can do what you wish with it. In regards to personal paranormal experiences. Always do whatever is needed to eliminate all mundane and normal explanations and solutions before assuming anything metaphysical/paranormal/supernatural. It is often a stumbling block to put belief first and reason second. One must be certain that those creaky floor boards are just loose rather than Casper the Friendly Demon. Plus you have to give a lot of leeway to our imaginations. We are best at fooling ourselves.

Yes the human mind and brain is scary i compare paranormal somewhat with religion people have clamed to have seen god or jesus or angels but they cant prove it same with the ghost.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Avalanche said:

Yes the human mind and brain is scary i compare paranormal somewhat with religion people have clamed to have seen god or jesus or angels but they cant prove it same with the ghost.

Belief can be very powerful. Even if you're not consciously aware that you have such a belief. 

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

11 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Belief can be very powerful. Even if you're not consciously aware that you have such a belief. 

Yeah but i hate religion and to me the paranormal isn't a religion it is something i normally dont share with people. Any belief is poweful.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Avalanche

[XenoFish]

Just now, Avalanche said:

Yeah but i hate religion and to me the paranormal isn't a religion. Any belief is poweful.

Occultism is similar to religion because a lot of it uses religious trappings, it is concerned with spirits, psychic abilities, wish fulfillment, and the paranormal in general. I mean I created a sigil to summon the spirits of a graveyard and had a really weird experience, but I know that I changed my conscious perception intentionally (I spooked myself).  

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Occultism is similar to religion because a lot of it uses religious trappings, it is concerned with spirits, psychic abilities, wish fulfillment, and the paranormal in general. I mean I created a sigil to summon the spirits of a graveyard and had a really weird experience, but I know that I changed my conscious perception intentionally (I spooked myself).  

I dont deal with the occult at all and if i would. ... i would have shat myself. :-) "And if thou gaze long into an abyss the abyss will also gaze into thee"

Edited December 27, 2018 by Avalanche

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, MindfulInquirer said:

It's akin to the standard debate between theists and atheists: the theist says, there are moral laws and therefor a law giver, and the atheists say there are moral laws but there isn't necessarily a law giver.

I would say that I've become in time a lot less categorical and less to the letter because that is ultimately confinement with oneself), and have lent my ears (and mind) to 'the natural sounds of the world'.

The idea that a collection of individuals will fabricate their monsters on their own, sure we've got those. But when many human beings, from all over the world, swear they've seen ghosts/or dwell in these dark parts, I say there's at least one thing I take out of that ...that is true and real. That thing I take out of it, may not be literal (believing literally a graveyard ghost story), but will tell me there are occurrences, on some level. I end with this: those occurrences may be a number of things.... but they can't be: nothing.

Sorry, your style of addressing questions is hard for me to grasp. Let me try again.

Do you have an opinion on if ghosts can exist when no human is there to observe?

[XenoFish]

26 minutes ago, Avalanche said:

I dont deal with the occult at all and if i would. ... i would have shat myself. :-) "And if thou gaze long into an abyss the abyss will also gaze into thee"

People haunt themselves. It's all a mind game. 

[Lumpino]

What a some experiments? Fom example astral projection while sleeping. When you sleep, your astral body go out itself. When you will do a meditation about a yourney every evening before you sleep, you can have interesting experience.  Walking with everything, watching the steps, watching the surroundings ...

After a time you will see....

You have a ghost too. Ghost is an astral body....

Edited December 27, 2018 by Lumpino
addition

[papageorge1]

42 minutes ago, Lumpino said:

What a some experiments? Fom example astral projection while sleeping. When you sleep, your astral body go out itself. When you will do a meditation about a yourney every evening before you sleep, you can have interesting experience.  Walking with everything, watching the steps, watching the surroundings ...

After a time you will see....

You have a ghost too. Ghost is an astral body....

I also understand the astral body seperates in normal sleep but we have no recollection of it. With astral projection we have recollection.

How do you think this works? I think I heard somewhere that in astral projection the separation occurs through the crown chakra instead of the normal solar plexus. 

[Trelane]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I also understand the astral body seperates in normal sleep but we have no recollection of it. With astral projection we have recollection.

How do you think this works? I think I heard somewhere that in astral projection the separation occurs through the crown chakra instead of the normal solar plexus. 

What is an astral body? How is it accounted for and documented as an actual "thing"? Is this a recognized medical term? What is the actual genesis of the term? https://www.livescience.com/27978-astral-projection.html

My opinion about all this is that it's more fantasy than reality. I have actually been on several "ghost hunts" and there has been nothing that couldn't be easily and rationally explained.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Trelane

[papageorge1]

1 minute ago, Trelane said:

What is an astral body? How is it accounted for and documented as an actual "thing"? Is this a recognized medical term? What is the actual genesis of the term?

My opinion about all this is that it's pure nonsense. I have actually been on several "ghost hunts" and there has been nothing that couldn't be easily and rationally explained. Astral body indeed.

The astral body is posited by eastern (Vedic) and western esoteric wisdom traditions to be an interpenetrating (with the physical) body composed of astral (subtle) matter. The astral plane and astral matter exist at a vibratory rate and in dimensions (beyond our familiar three) not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments.

The evidence for this comes from paranormal phenomena and the insights of those claiming astral vision (the astral body has its own senses that the psychically gifted can bring to the notice of their normal waking consciousness).

I believe in the reality of the astral body from the quantity, quality and consistency of paranormal phenomena and my developed appreciation of those claiming insight into the 'beyond  the physical'. 

I am feeling your attitude about this all stuff is 'astral smastral'.

[MindfulInquirer]

On 12/27/2018 at 2:11 AM, papageorge1 said:

Sorry, your style of addressing questions is hard for me to grasp. Let me try again.

Do you have an opinion on if ghosts can exist when no human is there to observe?

Well it's not a topic where I can answer yes or no obviously, or else I would. "I don't believe in ghosts", would be my opinion as crammed into the mainstream format, and simplified. Like, going to Scotland and waiting for sth freaky to happen in some "haunted house" or wtvr, Scooby Doo, that sort of thing. Nah. My imagination might go wild (or not) but that's just, well, imagination. There's no belief there. I'm just afraid of the dark to some extent, it's evolutionary/organic, not intellectual.

I'm probably really unconsciously afraid of some nocturnal predator jumping at my throat ,at the turn of the corridor, than afraid of seeing a ghaghaghaghosssssssst.

Now in the less simplified/vulgarized sense, do I believe in ghosts ? Well I'd say there's been enough 'evidence' in my life to believe there's a metaphysical dimension to existence.

[papageorge1]

4 minutes ago, MindfulInquirer said:

Well it's not a topic where I can answer yes or no obviously, or else I would. "I don't believe in ghosts", would be my opinion as crammed into the mainstream format, and simplified. Like, going to Scotland and waiting for sth freaky to happen in some "haunted house" or wtvr, Scooby Doo, that sort of thing. Nah. My imagination might go wild (or not) but that's just, well, imagination. There's no belief there. I'm just afraid of the dark to some extent, it's evolutionary/organic, not intellectual.

I'm probably really unconsciously afraid of some nocturnal predator jumping at my throat ,at the turn of the corridor, than afraid of seeing a ghaghaghaghosssssssst.

Now in the less simplified/vulgarized sense, do I believe in ghosts ? Well I'd say there's been enough 'evidence' in my life to believe there's a metaphysical dimension to existence.

Interesting that my interest is in the objective aspect of the question and not the psychological and personal aspect of ghosts. Great minds can think differently, LOL

I have come to believe that some ghosts are real objective entities from my consideration of the stronger cases for quantity, quality and consistency while considering all evidence and argumentation from all sides. I believe in real spiritual realms inhabited by conscious entities.

[MindfulInquirer]

3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Interesting that my interest is in the objective aspect of the question and not the psychological and personal aspect of ghosts. Great minds can think differently, LOL

I have come to believe that some ghosts are real objective entities from my consideration of the stronger cases for quantity, quality and consistency while considering all evidence and argumentation from all sides. I believe in real spiritual realms inhabited by conscious entities.

Well. OK. But like what. Give me an example. I'm not necessarily asking for lengthy paragraphs, just...

For e.g. as far as my believing in a metaphysical dimension in life, I think the fact certain ideas resonate very strongly within us and move us deeply, that that's not just incidental or accidental. I think there are archetypes, or at very least ideals, that are too real in our understanding to not have a root in grounded reality. Whether 'physical' or not isn't even relevant in the slightest, to the fact they exist, as in not a mere product of the subjective mind. But I'm saying all this broadly, not about ghosts specifically.

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, MindfulInquirer said:

Well. OK. But like what. Give me an example. I'm not necessarily asking for lengthy paragraphs, just...

 

I’m not quite sure what you are asking. But basically I believe there are planes of reality in dimensions beyond our familiar three. To me this is an important issue in my thinking  as it involves the question of whether we are just physical or are we more and do we have a continuation of consciousness after death. My position from the evidence and argumentation is that we do. The existence of genuine paranormal (and ghost) phenomena is important evidence in analysis of these questions.

1 hour ago, MindfulInquirer said:

For e.g. as far as my believing in a metaphysical dimension in life, I think the fact certain ideas resonate very strongly within us and move us deeply, that that's not just incidental or accidental. I think there are archetypes, or at very least ideals, that are too real in our understanding to not have a root in grounded reality. Whether 'physical' or not isn't even relevant in the slightest, to the fact they exist, as in not a mere product of the subjective mind. But I'm saying all this broadly, not about ghosts specifically.

A collective subconscious is what this sounds kind of like to me. I believe such things too.

i am starting to understand more of where you are interested in discussing.. 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by papageorge1

[Timothy]

@MindfulInquirer, welcome to UM.

Videos are definitely welcome when you have introduced the thread as you have. My emoticons are not working for some reason, so: (y)

We get a lot of hit and run posters looking for YouTube hits, and that’s annoying and frowned upon. But when you are actually engaging in discussion, it’s perfectly fine. 

I’m a pretty staunch sceptic ( @papageorge1, you wouldn’t guess it :D), so I don’t really believe in ghosts as anything paranormal. My interest in this topic and others is more the psychological side of it. Why people see ghosts more so than if they actually exist. 

I think that there’s been more than enough inconclusiveness to suggests that it’s a psychological thing, rather than paranormal. 

Will watch the video when I have time.

[acute]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:36 AM, Avalanche said:

Why do we believe in ghosts?

I believe in ghosts because I've seen them and heard them.

(It's not rocket surgery)

[XenoFish]

22 minutes ago, acute said:

I believe in ghosts because I've seen them and heard them.

(It's not rocket surgery)

There could be a whole lot of reason why you've seen them. Just because you seen or heard a ghost, doesn't mean you've seen or heard a ghost. 

I think most of us probably have a ghost story.

[openozy]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, MindfulInquirer said:

Well it's my leaning. I lean towards looking into the personal struggle between the individual and his ghost. I look into psychology rather, but also, the symbolic perceptions (symbolic therefore of something real). And this is where you and I meet, maybe not agree but at least meet: the spiritual domain (incl. metaphysical). The urge for man to reach out and grab something, anything, from outside the physical realm. The spiritual yearning in the human experience that, by the very fact it exists, must translate into something being really out there.

Your looking too deep into it,I've seen ghosts,entities and other paranormal things and so have people that have been with me.There's nothing psychological about it.

[openozy]

On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:49 AM, XenoFish said:

I found the search within the metaphysical and supernatural to be rather fruitless

Because you have a closed mind.You could look forever and never see anything but the mundane.

[XenoFish]

28 minutes ago, openozy said:

You could look forever and never see anything but the mundane.

I grew up. 

[MindfulInquirer]

On 12/29/2018 at 12:48 PM, openozy said:

Your looking too deep into it,I've seen ghosts,entities and other paranormal things and so have people that have been with me.There's nothing psychological about it.

Well it's not like we can just brush off to the side the psychological aspect of it. Altogether. Let's say there are ghosts, real ghosts that objectively exist. Not ALL the people who claim they see or perceive/"feel" ghosts really do perceive actual ghosts. It's the same as any other supernatural/metaphysical debate. Even if you consider there's a 'God' and you're absolutely theistic on all accounts, that doesn't mean everyone who claims they've been touched by faith or have had some sort of personal spiritual connection, really did. Eliminating the psychological aspect outright is not a very realistic, cautious method in any field.

The mind plays tricks on us, the brain is a muscle that can be fooled and manipulated, there's personal bias, cultural bias (you'd have in one country, not the next)... it actually is complex.