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MindfulInquirer

Why Do We Believe in ghosts ?

120 posts in this topic

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PeacemongerWarlord
1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

who are you replying to? 

Just the title question.

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Dejarma
2 minutes ago, PeacemongerWarlord said:

Just the title question.

oh right

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Gecks
8 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My answer would be: There are multiple types of paranormal phenomena that go under the colloquial umbrella term 'ghosts'. But the most basic answer is entities not natural to the physical plane making a temporary appearance on the physical plane. This theory holds that there are planes of nature/reality in dimensions and at vibratory rates not directly detectable by our physical senses and instruments. Science generally holds the majority of the matter and energy in the universe to be a mystery at this time.

Also central to this idea is the concept that consciousness is not the creation of a physical brain but rather something primary and incarnates bodies of the physical and super-physical planes. 

Bring it on Gecks;)

Thanks for playing papageorge, thats pretty much the understanding Ive read to date.

So youve answered WHAT is a ghost.

Now heres the next question. HOW.

How do you know what it is and where it came from?

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papageorge1
14 minutes ago, Gecks said:

 

Now heres the next question. HOW.

How do you know what it is and where it came from?

Just following the most reasonable theory by far that I have heard from the people I have reasoned to deserve the most respect on these issues.

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Gecks
6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Just following the most reasonable theory by far that I have heard from the people I have reasoned to deserve the most respect on these issues.

Thats not a proper answer. Thats sidestepping the question. 

If you know what the subject matter is you must have reasoning for how you know. 

Without reasoning your just following someones nonsense they made up. And even if spirits do exist on another plain of reality and somehow appear to people in this plain, people here on earth have 0 way of knowing what they are, how they transmit themselves and where they come from. Its made up papageorge.

Even our greatest minds in theoretical physics can only theorise theres other plains of reality or dimensions. People who believe in the supernatural phenomenon speak as if its 100% true and proven. 

If I dont believe why am I here? Its not to tell people who believe they shouldnt. Im still interested in the supernatural phenomenon and open to a discovery of proof of its existence. Its an interesting topic. However Im looking from a serious viewpoint and still cant find any reasoning to even suggest its real.

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Habitat
1 hour ago, Gecks said:

Without reasoning your just following someones nonsense they made up.

How do you know what is nonsense and made up ? 

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Gecks
13 minutes ago, Habitat said:

How do you know what is nonsense and made up ? 

Statements that have proof and reasoning to back them up arent made up or nonsense. 

Statements made up with 0 possible way to even know how let alone show proof of what something is or how it works is made up

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Habitat
6 minutes ago, Gecks said:

Statements that have proof and reasoning to back them up arent made up or nonsense. 

Statements made up with 0 possible way to even know how let alone show proof of what something is or how it works is made up

Not at all, if you caught a whopper when out fishing alone and it slipped off the hook just as you went to put the landing net under it, and told me about it when you got home, I'd be entitled to say you just made the story up, would I ?

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Gecks
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Not at all, if you caught a whopper when out fishing alone and it slipped off the hook just as you went to put the landing net under it, and told me about it when you got home, I'd be entitled to say you just made the story up, would I ?

But we know fish exist, theres proof. We can reason people go fishing and fish get away. 

Theres no proof of other dimensions or plains.

Theres no proof of entitys being able to communicate from another dimension and theres no proof other entities exist at all so we cant reason any of those aspects. 

And yes it would still be perfectly reasonable to question if the fish was ever caught.

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Gecks
1 hour ago, Habitat said:

Not at all, if you caught a whopper when out fishing alone and it slipped off the hook just as you went to put the landing net under it, and told me about it when you got home, I'd be entitled to say you just made the story up, would I ?

Let me redirect the question from another perspective. If rather than a fish I said I caught the loch ness monster but before I could secure him in a net he vanished back to the other plain he lives, how would you feel about my story? 

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Habitat
Just now, Gecks said:

Let me redirect the question from another perspective. If rather than a fish I said I caught the loch ness monster but before I could secure him in a net he vanished back to the other plain he lives, how would you feel about my story? 

I'd say "oh, bad luck, you can't get them all " ! :lol:

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papageorge1
9 hours ago, Gecks said:

Thats not a proper answer. Thats sidestepping the question. 

If you know what the subject matter is you must have reasoning for how you know. 

Without reasoning your just following someones nonsense they made up. And even if spirits do exist on another plain of reality and somehow appear to people in this plain, people here on earth have 0 way of knowing what they are, how they transmit themselves and where they come from. Its made up papageorge.

Even our greatest minds in theoretical physics can only theorise theres other plains of reality or dimensions. People who believe in the supernatural phenomenon speak as if its 100% true and proven. 

If I dont believe why am I here? Its not to tell people who believe they shouldnt. Im still interested in the supernatural phenomenon and open to a discovery of proof of its existence. Its an interesting topic. However Im looking from a serious viewpoint and still cant find any reasoning to even suggest its real.

Here is the key point you are missing. I have come to believe through many decades of considering everything that there are gifted people that can tell us about things not directly detectable by our physical senses. And the best of them present a coherent picture of the 'beyond the physical' that explains observed phenomena that a physicalist would prefer to deny occurs. 

So I strongly disagree with your comment that it is 'nonsense they made up'. I believe it is their honest attempt at describing their clairvoyant observations to others.

If you demand undeniable proof through the physical senses of everything than the field of metaphysics probably shouldn't interest you. As for me, I find it fascinating and am convinced I am expanding my knowledge of reality by considering these sources as well as mainstream science.

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Gecks
6 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Here is the key point you are missing. I have come to believe through many decades of considering everything that there are gifted people that can tell us about things not directly detectable by our physical senses. And the best of them present a coherent picture of the 'beyond the physical' that explains observed phenomena that a physicalist would prefer to deny occurs. 

So I strongly disagree with your comment that it is 'nonsense they made up'. I believe it is their honest attempt at describing their clairvoyant observations to others.

If you demand undeniable proof through the physical senses of everything than the field of metaphysics probably shouldn't interest you. As for me, I find it fascinating and am convinced I am expanding my knowledge of reality by considering these sources as well as mainstream science.

The key point I am missing is you've heard people's stories for years and believed them without being given any proof yourself. 

Thats nice of you but I need something a bit more solid.

Edited by Gecks
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papageorge1
19 minutes ago, Gecks said:

The key point I am missing is you've heard people's stories for years and believed them without being given any proof yourself. 

Thats nice of you but I need something a bit more solid.

I consider everything and believe what I find most reasonable to believe after considering all evidence and argumentation from all sides. That's how human reasoning skills work. 

You can take the position that you will only believe what can be proved by laboratory testing but that pretty much rules out having an opinion on ghosts or much of the paranormal or spirituality.

Edited by papageorge1

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Gecks
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

 

You can take the position that you will only believe what can be proved by laboratory testing but that pretty much rules out having an opinion on ghosts or much of the paranormal or spirituality.

No it doesn't. It takes the reasonable opinion that everything in this universe can be measured and weighed and that if entitys exist there will be a way to do so. 

 

The notion it cant be measured or weighed is once again, based on nothing but a fact someone made up.

Edited by Gecks

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papageorge1
13 minutes ago, Gecks said:

No it doesn't. It takes the reasonable opinion that everything in this universe can be measured and weighed and that if entitys exist there will be a way to do so. 

 

The notion it cant be measured or weighed is once again, based on nothing but a fact someone made up.

It sounds like a logical error to say if ghosts can't  be measured and weighed with today's technology then they don't exist.

Edited by papageorge1

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docyabut2

I don`nt believe until I have a contact with a ghost:)

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Gecks
51 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

It sounds like a logical error to say if ghosts can't  be measured and weighed with today's technology then they don't exist.

Who said if they exist they cant?

You automatically take the standpoint they cant, because it suits your agenda. Or are atleast too lazy to really further your understanding of the subject because you have already decided it must be true. The same as the other believers. 'Its true so we dont need to provide any evidence or have any real understanding of what the object is or where it came from, we KNOW because others have said so'.

Whatever gets you through the day but I challenge you to spend a week really thinking about it papageorge. All given knowledge of the believers truth is, to date, based on ideas that are simply what someone decided it would be and based on no actual facts... and with no way of knowing these things.

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MindfulInquirer
23 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I consider everything and believe what I find most reasonable to believe after considering all evidence and argumentation from all sides. That's how human reasoning skills work. 

You can take the position that you will only believe what can be proved by laboratory testing but that pretty much rules out having an opinion on ghosts or much of the paranormal or spirituality.

I strongly agree with your stance quite honestly. I'm not here to make claims or anything, but I think generally speaking the "scientific method" as established firmly during the 18th century where man became the center of the universe (and no longer needed help for anything whatsoever), and was furthered most notably in the 20th century, has stripped us of an essential tool: the famous "third eye", or at least, the ability to acknowledge the 'spirit' in things. We've pretended the scientific mind was merely one that reasoned with molecules and centimeters and degrees Fahrenheit, when those things are only one part of reality. Just a part. It's hardly absurd to believe there's a metaphysical world, in fact, some notorious non-theistic thinkers have admitted to being of the opinion there is undoubtedly such a dimension.

Am I just going to stand here with my calculator in one hand and a book from Darwin in the other...and reduce the debate to what us roughly 100-IQ'ed hominids, can measure that's for sure ? Seems terribly unambitious, I mean sure in the meantime we find cures for terminal diseases and we go to the moon, but do we have NO ambition to lift up the debate and answer the deepest questions out there ? Going to the moon and inventing the USB Cable are awesome, but won't exact fulfil your *needs* for the metaphysical.

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MindfulInquirer

 

 

Check this out guys. I realize he's an ex-druggie, but give it a good fair 5min listen. You'll see, it's quite peculiar. I'm not saying I believe everything he's implying, but it's interesting to hear out such stories. I think there's underlying truth to what he's describing.

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