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Scudbuster

Ark Encounter Ticket Sales Starting to Tank

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Liquid Gardens
3 hours ago, eight bits said:

If a miliion people independently report something, especially in a private setting, then you've got something. If a million have read the same book, and their collective public answer to the question you ask them is found on page 34 of that book, then I am much less impressed.

Actually that ties in to something I was going to bring up; given the legitimate skepticism you've shown towards self-reporting to what extent then should we even believe that a large number of people even believe in God?  Lots of them get some of that from a book too, and regardless almost none of them arrived at it even remotely independently.

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eight bits
Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Actually that ties in to something I was going to bring up; given the legitimate skepticism you've shown towards self-reporting to what extent then should we even believe that a large number of people even believe in God?  Lots of them get some of that from a book too, and regardless almost none of them arrived at it even remotely independently.

That's a legitimate question, and I'm unsure about the answer. It is interesting that there is a preoccupation among Christians with the idea of being "tested," as in God tests their faith (he doesn't believe it? or they don't know whether or not they believe, so he shows them that they do or don't? ... the logic of "the test" isn't transparent). Lurid martyr mythology is an oddity, too. Surely it must occur to believers to question whether they would proclaim their faith when faced with being roasted on a grill (Saint Lawrence in tradition) or even just being threatened with crisp decapitation (what probably happened to Lawrence in history).

There's the additional complication that in principle, each of them might have their own custom-tailored God concept (not incompatible with their all having gotten the basic idea from the same book - there are many contradictions in that book, and many readers' personal rationalizations about things like dashing babies' heads on rocks, ...). I can see each of them (or a lot of them) getting cozy with their own God concept. Lucky thing they don't compare notes, then, otherwise they might kill one another over the difference between their God concepts. Nah, what are the odds of that?

We certainly have something like that going on with "historical Jesus." On the one hand, "99.9% of Jesus Studies professionals believe that Jesus was a real historical person." But if you press for details, the pros are all over the map about what Jesus might have really said and really done. What proposed core of facts they (supposedly) almost all agree on isn't all that hard to believe (Pontius Pilate crucified a Jewsih man named Joshua who'd been baptized by John and was survived by pals who sometimes saw things that they thought were really there - why not?). Anything beyond that that somebody believes is something they've gone to the salad bar and chosen the ingredients and dressing that appeal to them. Yeah, of course they believe in that salad, they've made a salad they can beleive in.

 

Edited by eight bits
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Podo

Good. I support a person's right to run whatever business they want, but I will definitely take great pleasure when such idiocy as Ark Encounters gets shut down due to lack of funding and attendance. Religion masquerading as science is a plague.

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Scudbuster

It's even phonier than I thought- it's essentially a building built on a concrete slab with huge posts to support it all:

 

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Doug1o29
On 12/25/2018 at 8:00 PM, Mr Walker said:

 Americans are constitutionally guaranteed; Freedom OF religion. Not freedom FROM religion :) 

As I understand the Supreme Court, freedom of religion INCLUDES freedom from religion.

Doug

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Doug1o29

Ararat is a 14,000-foot tall volcano - about the same height as Pike's Peak.  Have you ever climbed Pike's Peak?  There's a trail up the "back" side.  I bet you don't want to do it twice.  Your lungs scream for air; every step takes a major effort of will.  You rapidly lose any desire to go higher.

There's a place on the ascent to Ararat from which the "Arc" can be seen.  Travelers have reported it throughout history.  Most people who have climbed Ararat got to this observation point and saw a big boat-shapes thing about four miles away, decided they had seen the Arc and could thus go down, having achieved their objective.  But that big boat-shaped thing is a mass of basalt.  It only looks like a boat.

Mt. Ararat is snow-capped.  There's a glacier on top of it.  With climate change, the world's glaciers are melting.  If there's a big boat on Ararat, we won't have to wait too many more years until we can see it for real - stay tuned.

A few years ago a man named Ron Wyatt claimed he found Noah's Arc about 22 miles from Mt. Ararat with its bow pointing toward Ararat - the Durupinar Formation.  He said he found iron fittings that prove it's a boat.  But if so, it's not the Arc; the Arc was a Bronze Age story - it didn't have iron fitiings.  But the Arc story does explain the formation - sort of.

 

So what was the Arc?  A basalt formation on Ararat that looks like a boat from a distance, or a boat-shaped rock formation a few miles away?  The question has still not been resolved.

Doug

 

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eight bits

Does anybody know whether there have already been any tax-supported school field trips there?

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Copasetic
On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:17 AM, eight bits said:

Does anybody know whether there have already been any tax-supported school field trips there?

@eight bits

None that I am aware of, but I don't inhabit that part of the country anymore. :lol:

 

As an aside, after a quick read through the threads its good to see some of the same ol' ponies up to their same ol' tricks, looks like a couple might have even learned some new ones since my last visit a few years ago. :P

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eight bits
4 hours ago, Copasetic said:

As an aside, after a quick read through the threads its good to see some of the same ol' ponies up to their same ol' tricks, looks like a couple might have even learned some new ones since my last visit a few years ago. :P

Good to see ya. Hope that all has been going well for you and yours.

The place'd be livelier if you dropped in more often :)

 

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onlookerofmayhem

Just read through the whole thread. I'd like to commend @eight bits and @Liquid Gardens for having such an intelligent, well presented and civil discussion. 

It may have not been totally on topic, but nonetheless stemmed from it. :P

I've lurked on UM for almost a decade and have only recently stated engaging in the forums.

Since then, most threads I've read have devolved into bickering and arguing. 

It seems a lot of posters take it personally when someone disagrees with them and can't work through having a discussion to find out why.

Your back and forth has been a welcome pleasure to see that scenario isn't always the case.  Enough that it was well worth my time to acknowledge it. I wish there was someway to flag it to other users as an example of respectfully discussing opposing idea.

Thank you both :tu:

P.S. No disrespect to anybody else who posted it the thread. 

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Liquid Gardens
24 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Thank you both

Thanks for the kind words!  If I may say so myself I'm a master of 'not totally on topic', but not as bad I don't think as others thankfully.  Glad to see you engaging more, always good to have new perspectives.

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