Urantia Book Poll

[Jodie.Lynne]

3 hours ago, Will Due said:

Here's what the author said about this cormac.

Gee, an unknown author giving provenance to a work by unknown authors. I can't imagine why people don't flock to this...

You realize that is the equivalent of me saying bigfoot is real because some guy told me that some guy told him it was, right?

[Swede]

4 hours ago, Will Due said:

If you've read all of what I quoted from the Urantia Book in my last post where the authors present what Jesus said in reply to being asked to "know the truth about the Scriptures" what is false about anything Jesus said?

In addition to the points submitted by other worthy contributors, you would appear to be ignoring a significant factor. Context.

As has been repeatedly addressed in regards to the source material, the source material is heavily laden with inaccuracies, misinterpretations, and outright falsehoods. The material is repeatedly and demonstrably incorrect. Thus, why should the purported "Jesus quotes" be considered to have any degree of validity?.

.

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, Swede said:

In addition to the points submitted by other worthy contributors, you would appear to be ignoring a significant factor. Context.

As has been repeatedly addressed in regards to the source material, the source material is heavily laden with inaccuracies, misinterpretations, and outright falsehoods. The material is repeatedly and demonstrably incorrect. Thus, why should the purported "Jesus quotes" be considered to have any degree of validity?.

.

 

Ok. So for the sake of the discussion, let's say the context is all made up.

Is there anything Jesus was purported to have said about the truth of the Scriptures that is false?

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Is there anything Jesus was purported to have said about the truth of the Scriptures that is false?

 

Could you cite a biblical source where Jesus states that the scriptures are true?

And "no", the UB is NOT a biblical source.

[Will Due]

17 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Could you cite a biblical source where Jesus states that the scriptures are true?

And "no", the UB is NOT a biblical source.

 

Jodie, if you really want to know what's true about anything, first ask your indwelling Thought Adjuster. 

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

Sadly, my indwelling thought adjuster took a long holiday.

So you have no biblical verse to support your claims?

Why am I so not surprised?

[cormac mac airt]

10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Jodie, if you really want to know what's true about anything, first ask your indwelling Thought Adjuster. 

Right, because no one ever lies to them self. 

Nobody is ever 100% honest with themselves 100% of the time, NOT EVEN YOU. Try again.

cormac

[Will Due]

 

Here's what the UB says about a few things you might find interesting. 

 

 

Previous Written Records

121:8.1

As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

121:8.2

These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:

121:8.3

1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter’s death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter’s memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

121:8.4

2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master’s life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus’ life that much which he did was that “it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.” Matthew’s Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.

121:8.5

The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew’s personal remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.

1,342

Matthew’s original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.

121:8.7

Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew’s notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark’s narrative.

121:8.8

3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master’s life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the “grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as “the friend of publicans and sinners.” He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul’s death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the “Acts of the Apostles.”

121:8.9

As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus’ life as Paul had related it to him. Luke’s Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus’ life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark’s Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador’s narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.

121:8.10

4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus’ work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as “First John” was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.

121:8.11

All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.

Link

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

18 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Jodie, if you really want to know what's true about anything, first ask your indwelling Thought Adjuster. 

 

 

But before she left, she told me that the UB, like all religious tomes, is chock full of magical thinking and pixie dust.

I have come to realize that a vast portion of the human population has such a vast ego that they truly believe they are the most special creatures in all of the cosmos, and any fairy tale that encourages and supports that belief is nigh on impossible to counter.

And with the growing number of fundies, both Christian and Muslim, that seem to denounce logic and reason, I fear for the future of the human race.

[Jodie.Lynne]

Just now, Will Due said:

Here's what the UB says about a few things you might find interesting. 

You just don't get it do you? You can quote the UB till you turn blue and the cows come home. It means as much to me about "god" as the Harry Potter series does about magick.

I place it on the same level as Joseph Smith's tablets of gold. Pure bushwa

[cormac mac airt]

3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

~SNIP~

All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.

Link

All of these writers presented hear-say and old memories, which are never 100% accurate, 30 to 50 years AFTER Jesus' Crucifixion at the earliest. And of which were greatly reworked to become the Pauline Doctrine of Christianity. That's not exactly something to be proud of as "the truth". 

cormac

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

All of these writers presented hear-say and old memories, which are never 100% accurate, 30 to 50 years AFTER Jesus' Crucifixion at the earliest. And of which were greatly reworked to become the Pauline Doctrine of Christianity. That's not exactly something to be proud of as "the truth". 

cormac

 

That's why today we have a resource that straightens it all out via the Urantia Book.

Maybe it's not something to be proud of but there will be many at least who will be thankful.

 

 

[Will Due]

13 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

You just don't get it do you?

 

"Do you fully appreciate what has been done for you? Do you comprehend the grandeur of the heights of eternal achievement which are spread out before you?—even you who now trudge on in the lowly path of life through your so-called “vale of tears”?

 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

@Will Due

Your ability to quote verses is impressive.

Do YOU appreciate that I don't believe the things you do?

If there is a god, and he/she/it wanted me to believe in its existence, it wouldn't use YOU to convince me, because, as a spokesman for god, you are really terrible at it.

In fact, if there is a god, I am sure it would have much more convincing ways to get me to believe.

[cormac mac airt]

18 minutes ago, Will Due said:

That's why today we have a resource that straightens it all out via the Urantia Book.

Maybe it's not something to be proud of but there will be many at least who will be thankful.

That’s why lies are a dime a dozen and bullscheisse travels faster than truth. Congratulations on your gullibility. 

cormac

[Will Due]

-

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Will Due

[GoldenWolf]

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Jodie, if you really want to know what's true about anything, first ask your indwelling Thought Adjuster. 

 

 

How do you know who is really talking to you?

[Will Due]

47 minutes ago, GoldenWolf said:

How do you know who is really talking to you?

 

"[Y]our apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

Link

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Will Due

[GoldenWolf]

3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

"[Y]our apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

Link

 

 

Can you like not give the U.B. textbook answer?  Your like a mindless robot.

[Swede]

21 hours ago, Will Due said:

Ok. So for the sake of the discussion, let's say the context is all made up.

Is there anything Jesus was purported to have said about the truth of the Scriptures that is false?

Your intent in regards to the utilization of the term “truth” is not well defined and thus problematic to succinctly address.

If you are referring to the authenticity of the quotations attributed to the Jesus figure as presented in Will Due #85, said authenticity can be classed as ranging from very highly questionable to non-existent. In short, the “quotations” are part of the early 20^th century fictional narrative.

If you are referring to the more highly subjective “philosophical” truths that the “quotations” are attempting to present, they are again reflective of permutations of early 20^th century theosophy. This latter aspect is one of a number that support the modern construction of the material.

As to specifics, there are many examples of "falsehood". For example:

“But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret" (Will Due #85).

Anyone with even a rudimentary familiarity with bible study classes, which apparently did exist during the 1st century AD, will recognize the inaccuracy of the above statement. We also have such evidences as the Qumran scrolls. There are many more examples.

Edit: Format.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Swede

[Will Due]

 

@Swede

Here are a few more things from the UB that although written in the early Twentieth century are highly relevant in today's world which defines its intent to the utilization of truth:

 

 

"At the time of this revelation, the prevailing intellectual and philosophical climate of both European and American life is decidedly secular—humanistic. For three hundred years Western thinking has been progressively secularized. Religion has become more and more a nominal influence, largely a ritualistic exercise. The majority of professed Christians of Western civilization are unwittingly actual secularists.

195:8.4

It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery.

195:8.5

Materialism denies God, secularism simply ignores him; at least that was the earlier attitude. More recently, secularism has assumed a more militant attitude, assuming to take the place of the religion whose totalitarian bondage it onetime resisted. Twentieth-century secularism tends to affirm that man does not need God. But beware! this godless philosophy of human society will lead only to unrest, animosity, unhappiness, war, and world-wide disaster.

195:8.6

Secularism can never bring peace to mankind. Nothing can take the place of God in human society. But mark you well! do not be quick to surrender the beneficent gains of the secular revolt from ecclesiastical totalitarianism. Western civilization today enjoys many liberties and satisfactions as a result of the secular revolt. The great mistake of secularism was this: In revolting against the almost total control of life by religious authority, and after attaining the liberation from such ecclesiastical tyranny, the secularists went on to institute a revolt against God himself, sometimes tacitly and sometimes openly.

195:8.7

To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness.

195:8.8

It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education.

2,082

But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

195:8.10

Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.

195:8.11

The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.

195:8.12

Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.

195:8.13

The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come.

Link

 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

@MERRY DMAS To be fair, that single vote is mine. It was a joke, and I can't revoke it.  So actually all 37 voters are on your side in that it's a bunch of baloney.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Nuclear Wessel

[Jodie.Lynne]

11 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

@MERRY DMAS To be fair, that single vote is mine. It was a joke, and I can't revoke it.  So actually all 37 voters are on your side in that it's a bunch of baloney.

Nope, it's official: You are now one of THEM

[Davros of Skaro]

15 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

@MERRY DMAS To be fair, that single vote is mine. It was a joke, and I can't revoke it.  So actually all 37 voters are on your side in that it's a bunch of baloney.

You don't fool me. You see the UB as being reliably sourced. Not a product from a secretive focus group of varied in profession individuals working on it over a two decade period. Even the tactic of the "older scriptures are corrupted" like the Quran uses so one cannot argue from said scriptures has you fooled. 

 

[Davros of Skaro]

@Will Due

They keep their temple messy with the sin of rational thinking so the indwelling Thought Adjuster gets pushed away.