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Davros of Skaro

Urantia Book Poll

The UB. Made up, or inspired?   

51 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Is the Urantia Book fact, or fake?

    • Real channeled knowledge ?
    • Person, or people fakery?


1,010 posts in this topic

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Piney
On 1/9/2019 at 7:18 PM, Piney said:
Quote

64:6.7 (723.6) Because of this great retrogression the red men seemed doomed when, about sixty-five thousand years ago, Onamonalonton appeared as their leader and spiritual deliverer. He brought temporary peace among the American red men and revived their worship of the “Great Spirit.” Onamonalonton lived to be ninety-six years of age and maintained his headquarters among the great redwood trees of California. Many of his later descendants have come down to modern times among the Blackfoot Indians.

 

The Great Spirit ( Living Universe) is nothing like your Christian God and the Blackfeet are Algonquian and believe the same as me. Oh, and we didn't get here until about 25-35, 000 years ago. Not 65,000.

Also the Blackfeet never lived in California

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

You misunderstand. The book implies that it's exactly the opposite.

Genetic differences are "designed" to create environmental and cultural situations that promote spiritual growth. Life is supposed to be difficult. It invigorates that way. It (nature) bends the will to become more tolerant.

Isn't that what's going on in the world today? We're being prepared for something. 

That's NOT what the scientifically verifiable evidence shows. Genetic differences ARE A RESPONSE to environmental and to a lesser degree cultural situations. 

cormac

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Piney
5 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Genetic differences are "designed" to create environmental and cultural situations that promote spiritual growth. Life is supposed to be difficult. It invigorates that way. It (nature) bends the will to become more tolerant.

Isn't that what's going on in the world today? We're being prepared for something. 

No they are not designed, they are random and due to environment. Not the opposite, and we are not being prepared for anything. Just randomly mixing. 

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

I disagree. I read the book and see the specifics of how to love each and every fellow human being more than ever. It's a road map to tolerance. Not racism. It provides knowledge and insight. 

Then you're purposely blind to what it says. I've read it too and where such are concerned it's an embarrassment to multiple scientific disciplines as well as good common sense. 

cormac

 

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Jodie.Lynne
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I disagree. I read the book and see the specifics of how to love each and every fellow human being more than ever. It's a road map to tolerance. Not racism. It provides knowledge and insight. 

 

 

If a tome emphasizes differences between people, it isn't a map to tolerance, IMO.

There may be cultural differences between societies, but the amount of melanin in one's body, or whether they have an epicanthic fold in their eyes or not, does not negate the fact that they are all humans.

To highlight the differences in another, whether due to cultural, political, geographical or otherwise, is to accentuate and exaggerate those differences in order to elevate one's own particular traits while demeaning others.

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

If a tome emphasizes differences between people, it isn't a map to tolerance, IMO.

There may be cultural differences between societies, but the amount of melanin in one's body, or whether they have an epicanthic fold in their eyes or not, does not negate the fact that they are all humans.

To highlight the differences in another, whether due to cultural, political, geographical or otherwise, is to accentuate and exaggerate those differences in order to elevate one's own particular traits while demeaning others.

Exactly, and to dismiss that in some misbegotten attempt to say "It's all good" is not only an embarrassment to the one believing same but also to the idea of Deity as some sort of omnipotent, omniscient being who has our best interests at heart. I pity a person in that position. 

cormac

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Will Due
5 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

That's NOT what the scientifically verifiable evidence shows. Genetic differences ARE A RESPONSE to environmental and to a lesser degree cultural situations. 

cormac

 

Yes, I understand this. But for the record, the UB states it's the other way around. 

I tell you what, in general what the UB does is turn everything on its head. It flips things over in ways that are unexpected and hard to describe. This particular issue is one of those that I feel sets me free.

That instead of being subject to environment and so forth, the actuality is that I am (to a certain degree) its master.

 

 

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cormac mac airt
6 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Yes, I understand this. But for the record, the UB states it's the other way around. 

I tell you what, in general what the UB does is turn everything on its head. It flips things over in ways that are unexpected and hard to describe. This particular issue is one of those that I feel sets me free.

That instead of being subject to environment and so forth, the actuality is that I am (to a certain degree) its master.

In general the writer/s of the UB are effectively spitting in one hand and p***ing in the other. You DO know which one of your hands will fill up first, do you not? 

As an individual you're not, the environment, whether physical or cultural, will for the most part always dictate your actions. 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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Will Due
5 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

If a tome emphasizes differences between people, it isn't a map to tolerance, IMO.

There may be cultural differences between societies, but the amount of melanin in one's body, or whether they have an epicanthic fold in their eyes or not, does not negate the fact that they are all humans.

To highlight the differences in another, whether due to cultural, political, geographical or otherwise, is to accentuate and exaggerate those differences in order to elevate one's own particular traits while demeaning others.

 

I get where you're coming from. But in my experience with studying what the UB's words have indicated to me about life and how people interact with each other, it's only led me to appreciate more whatever exists that separates us, to break those barriers. 

Otherwise, they're just words in a book.

 

 

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Will Due
2 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

As an individual you're not, the environment, whether physical or cultural, will for the most party always dictate your actions. 

cormac

 

Yeah your right. But not for me. I'm not a slave to anything. Not environment. Not culture. Not anything.

Well that's what I like to tell myself lol.

But no, I'm a lot less subject to these things you're pointing to cormac. But I guess you don't believe me. 

 

 

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Will Due
30 minutes ago, Piney said:

No they are not designed, they are random and due to environment. Not the opposite, and we are not being prepared for anything. Just randomly mixing. 

 

I understand you're point of view but to me that means we're more like being laundry in a washing machine that somebody forgot to add detergent to.

It destroys my sense that I have a degree of choice. 

 

 

Edited by Will Due

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cormac mac airt
8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Yeah your right. But not for me. I'm not a slave to anything. Not environment. Not culture. Not anything.

Well that's what I like to tell myself lol.

But no, I'm a lot less subject to these things you're pointing to cormac. But I guess you don't believe me. 

No you're not. You're alive and you're human. As long as those are true you will always exist under the dictates of your environment in it's overall scope. Handling the minor things is meaningless in the larger picture. Example: a natural disaster could just as easily end your life as it could miss you entirely and kill someone else and there's not a damn thing you could do about it. That you think you're somehow not subject to environment, and this is just as true in a cultural context as well, suggests you're lying to yourself in order to feel more in control of things than you actually are. Wake up. 

cormac

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Piney
2 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I understand you're point of view but to me that means we're more like being laundry in a washing machine that somebody forgot to add detergent to.

It destroys my sense that I have a degree to choose. 

You don't and genetics are a dice throw. Read up on sickle cell anemia.

I'm only mixed because my mother fell in love with drugs and Newage horse****. If she stayed sober and married the nice Scottish gentleman picked for her and my father didn't cheat on his Indian wife I would of been either full blooded Indian, British country gentry, or never happened.

All a dice throw. 

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Will Due

 

This is what, what the UB says about race did for me.

It caused me to stop seeing the difference in others and start seeing the difference in me.

 

 

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Jodie.Lynne
13 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I tell you what, in general what the UB does is turn everything on its head. It flips things over in ways that are unexpected and hard to describe.

In and of itself, to examine something by reversing what is known (i.e. "What if water were dry, and sand were wet?") is a great exercise in imagination. The entire basis of the genre of science fiction is "What if...?"

But just because I can imagine a planet with reverse gravity (where things 'fall' up) does not make it a reality.

If you are using the 'what if' scenario to examine what is and try to work out a better way, then that is a good thing. But it's a useless exercise to just say "No no, reality isn't real, but this book tells us what is real". 

I could incite a real snit storm if I said I could quote books that emphatically state that the Caucasian "race"  is the most superior on the planet.  Let's ignore for the moment the ludicrous phrase 'most superior'.  And, let us ignore the fact that the current model indicates that the human race began as dark skinned hominids. And ignore also, the fact that proto-humans and early humans adapted to their environments.

If we ignore all the facts, then we can assert, boldly, that Caucasians are  .>ahem< superior.

But then, we are ignoring a ship load of facts to support an erroneous conclusion.

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Will Due
1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

No you're not. You're alive and you're human. As long as those are true you will always exist under the dictates of your environment in it's overall scope. Handling the minor things is meaningless in the larger picture. Example: a natural disaster could just as easily end your life as it could miss you entirely and kill someone else and there's not a damn thing you could do about it. That you think you're somehow not subject to environment, and this is just as true in a cultural context as well, suggests you're lying to yourself in order to feel more in control of things than you actually are. Wake up. 

cormac

 

I'm sorry cormac. I wasn't thinking of environment in the material sense.

 

 

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Will Due
3 minutes ago, Piney said:

You don't and genetics are a dice throw. Read up on sickle cell anemia.

I'm only mixed because my mother fell in love with drugs and Newage horse****. If she stayed sober and married the nice Scottish gentleman picked for her and my father didn't cheat on his Indian wife I would of been either full blooded Indian, British country gentry, or never happened.

All a dice throw. 

 

Except for deliberate choice.

The choices life forces each of us to make.

 

 

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Will Due
4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

In and of itself, to examine something by reversing what is known (i.e. "What if water were dry, and sand were wet?") is a great exercise in imagination. The entire basis of the genre of science fiction is "What if...?"

But just because I can imagine a planet with reverse gravity (where things 'fall' up) does not make it a reality.

If you are using the 'what if' scenario to examine what is and try to work out a better way, then that is a good thing. But it's a useless exercise to just say "No no, reality isn't real, but this book tells us what is real". 

I could incite a real snit storm if I said I could quote books that emphatically state that the Caucasian "race"  is the most superior on the planet.  Let's ignore for the moment the ludicrous phrase 'most superior'.  And, let us ignore the fact that the current model indicates that the human race began as dark skinned hominids. And ignore also, the fact that proto-humans and early humans adapted to their environments.

If we ignore all the facts, then we can assert, boldly, that Caucasians are  .>ahem< superior.

But then, we are ignoring a ship load of facts to support an erroneous conclusion.

 

What reading the book did for me wasn't to change reality. It just helped me to see it better for what it really is.

 

 

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cormac mac airt
3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Except for deliberate choice.

The choices life forces each of us to make.

Which has no bearing on genetics. 

cormac

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Will Due
Just now, cormac mac airt said:

Which has no bearing on genetics. 

cormac

 

That's right but genetics are a part of the riverbed that determines which way the river flows. 

Sorry, I'm a natural (genetically) born smartazz.

 

 

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Will Due

 

Enough for now. I wish you a good night. :)

 

 

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joc

I have been reading Will's posts for....way to long...I even have him on hold while I am bliss..fully unaware of his meanderings...

Just going out on a limb here but...I have never really read anything ...anything...that he has written that even comes close to anything he is saying now.  Not just the things he is saying but the way he is saying them...the entire 'cohesive, cognitive' package seems entirely like a different personality.   I am not accusing anyone of anything...just noting the position of my head...cocked to one side with eyebrows up.  My speculation is that either Will has had an Epiphany...or....he has someone else writing for him.  I guess one could say I am very Skeptical!  

It has been my experience that...people don't change.  Not like that.  I hope I'm wrong...

...going back to the lounge now.

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toast
5 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

To highlight the differences in another, whether due to cultural, political, geographical or otherwise, is to accentuate and exaggerate those differences in order to elevate one's own particular traits while demeaning others.

Exactly ^^this. I`m ok with the word "race" to be discussed/used in a scientific/social context somehow. But when its used in stupid books, like the UB, as a part of a mission manifest, then all my alarm bells are ringing.

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Piney
18 hours ago, joc said:

My speculation is that either Will has had an Epiphany...or....he has someone else writing for him.  I guess one could say I am very Skeptical!  

It's Will but his answers are coming from someone else. 

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Piney said:

It's Will but his answers are coming from someone else. 

Or he suffers from MPD. 

cormac

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