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Aquila King

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - HUGE SCANDAL!!!!

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Earl.Of.Trumps
56 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Yeah, what you claim here is simply not true, regarding the middle class, and what you claim about the correlation between the tax cuts and unemployment rate is also a distortion. What you have with unemployment is correlation without causation. In other words, you can't prove that the unemployment rate has been affected by the tax cuts (and if you look at the unemployment rate over the past 8 years or so, it's been steadily falling at pretty much the same rate throughout).

ridiculous.

When Trump made tax cuts for Big Biz, many hundreds of $billions flowed back into the US from foreign holding companies and the money was invested HERE. That is why hiring went crazy. "without causation"...?  Not so.  They know what caused the hiring spree. for sure.

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ExpandMyMind
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Where it says whites got an average of 2000 dollars saved

From your link:

Quote

The analysis starts with a simulation of the law’s effects on Americans by income group, using historical tax data. On that front, its conclusions closely track those of distributional analyses by the Tax Policy Center and the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress’s scorekeeper on the effects of the cuts. Both found that the vast majority of the law’s benefits would flow to the top 20 percent of American income earners.

That's the thing about averages, they can distort the realities of the situation. That 2000 dollars doesn't mean that most people saw anywhere near 2000 dollars. It just means that the numbers were just so absurdly high for the rich that it fudges the them.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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ExpandMyMind
20 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

ridiculous.

When Trump made tax cuts for Big Biz, many hundreds of $billions flowed back into the US from foreign holding companies and the money was invested HERE. That is why hiring went crazy. "without causation"...?  Not so.  They know what caused the hiring spree. for sure.

You can't actually prove this, no matter how often you might make the claim. And, in fact, there are many examples of corporations who took the tax cuts and then laid off loads of staff, those who shut production in the US and those who shipped manufacturing abroad. GM is the glaring example that comes to mind.

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Tatetopa
15 hours ago, F3SS said:

So what, me too. Dont be jealous. Be inspired.

You asked, I answered.  I am not jealous, I have more than plenty, in fact enough to give away to the causes I support.  What more do I need?  Money can be overrated as a mark of accomplishment or happiness.

I think your point was that nobody would bother to make$100 million dollars if they only get to keep $30 million.  I disagree.

It doesn't matter how hard you have to work or how steep the hill is, if everybody gets the same deal, excellent people will still excel.

And the amount you get to keep in the free enterprise system if you work for somebody else is in line with that.

I know that my target is to generate 2.25 times my salary in revenue for the corporation I work for as an engineer.  If I do more, I get perrks, better projects,and  I get to propose a lot of new projects to work on because my track record is good.  

If someone does less than 2.25 return on their salary, after a year to 18 months, they are not around.   That is the system I have prospered in.

So I get paid $100k, I have to make or save the company $225k in new revenue or cost savings to keep my position.  So I get paid 44% of what I generate.  The company gets the other 56%.  Then I pay taxes on my $100k of about 28%.  So I am left with 32% of the value I generated to buy a house, cars, braces for the kids, evenings out, a wood shop,etc.   You know what, that seems to work out OK for me.  

Now sure, I could work for myself and keep more of that revenue.  I did once for a six years,  It wasn't worth it to me.  Instead of being an engineer which I like, I became a salesman / manager / businessman which I didn't like. I was managing and paying people and giving them the jobs I wanted to do while I was stuck lining up work, hassling with  undependable vendors, being a bookkeeper and general gopher to keep my employees profitable working.   So I guess it was worth the difference in money to me to have a life I enjoy.

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Gromdor
40 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You can't actually prove this, no matter how often you might make the claim. And, in fact, there are many examples of corporations who took the tax cuts and then laid off loads of staff, those who shut production in the US and those who shipped manufacturing abroad. GM is the glaring example that comes to mind.

Everyone is looking at this all wrong.  Cutting and raising taxes first and foremost are supposed to be for the benefit of the country.  We try and balance it so that it maximizes the benefit of the corporations and the people as well.  If we cut it so far that corporations benefit but our country can't pay it's bills, reduce it's debt, or pay for needed projects then that tax cut was a failure. 

Multinational corporations could give a hoot about America.  Them having billions of extra dollars doesn't help America unless they do something with those billions to help America. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
47 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Everyone is looking at this all wrong.  Cutting and raising taxes first and foremost are supposed to be for the benefit of the country.  We try and balance it so that it maximizes the benefit of the corporations and the people as well.  If we cut it so far that corporations benefit but our country can't pay it's bills, reduce it's debt, or pay for needed projects then that tax cut was a failure. 

You have to remember, that if you cut tax rates, you can still have an even higher flow of tax revenue due to more people working, and businesses paying more because of increased business and new business ventures. The only people who don't prosper by these cuts are the control freaks.

47 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Multinational corporations could give a hoot about America.  Them having billions of extra dollars doesn't help America unless they do something with those billions to help America. 

The above is true but these people very often do invest their revenues. A good example is Amazon, which started out as an online bookstore only.

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Gromdor
20 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

You have to remember, that if you cut tax rates, you can still have an even higher flow of tax revenue due to more people working, and businesses paying more because of increased business and new business ventures. The only people who don't prosper by these cuts are the control freaks.

The above is true but these people very often do invest their revenues. A good example is Amazon, which started out as an online bookstore only.

Yup, that's the theory.  But as both Kansas and Gov. Brownback and now the US government and Trump have shown, it just doesn't happen.  Our revenue is down, our deficit is up, and we are fast hitting the debt ceiling-  in this booming economy with record job growth

It's interesting that you brought up Amazon considering Trump is on record saying that Amazon is hurting America: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/14/17233680/trump-amazon-bezos-postal-service-explained

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Earl.Of.Trumps
33 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yup, that's the theory.  But as both Kansas and Gov. Brownback and now the US government and Trump have shown, it just doesn't happen.  Our revenue is down, our deficit is up, and we are fast hitting the debt ceiling-  in this booming economy with record job growth

It's interesting that you brought up Amazon considering Trump is on record saying that Amazon is hurting America: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/14/17233680/trump-amazon-bezos-postal-service-explained

I guess it's a matter of philosophy, Gromdor. The revenue that you speak of being down (federal tax revenue) does not mean the money  is lost. That revenue stays with the people who created those dollars to begin with, the worker or business operator.  That's cool by me.

As far as Trump goes,, " he was tweeting that Amazon was making the Postal Service “dumber and poorer.”   Poppycock.  If Amazon is doing something illegal, let his legal beagles in the JD investigate it. Same with Bezos. Even Trump has admitted that there are  loopholes in American law that allowed him and others to evade taxation. So...?  Deal with it Trump. Change the laws, which he said he would advise congress to do.

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ExpandMyMind
47 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I guess it's a matter of philosophy, Gromdor

I suggest you take a much closer look at the Kansas disaster. It's the perfect case study.

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Gromdor
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I guess it's a matter of philosophy, Gromdor. The revenue that you speak of being down (federal tax revenue) does not mean the money  is lost. That revenue stays with the people who created those dollars to begin with, the worker or business operator.  That's cool by me.

As far as Trump goes,, " he was tweeting that Amazon was making the Postal Service “dumber and poorer.”   Poppycock.  If Amazon is doing something illegal, let his legal beagles in the JD investigate it. Same with Bezos. Even Trump has admitted that there are  loopholes in American law that allowed him and others to evade taxation. So...?  Deal with it Trump. Change the laws, which he said he would advise congress to do.

It has been said that Trump is a great business man.  Let's look at the government under his leadership, shall we?

1) It spends more than it takes in. (Deficit)

2) It's credit cards are maxxed. (Reached the Debt Ceiling)

3) The management has a 65% turn over rate. https://www.brookings.edu/research/tracking-turnover-in-the-trump-administration/

4) The business's doors are closed. (Government shutdown)

5) It's employees aren't getting paid.

So basically it is following the path of all his other bankrupt businesses.  The main difference though, is that the US citizens won't be able to wash their hands of it.  A 2 cent an hour pay raise for the tax cut won't offset a reduced Social Security payment when I retire.  That's one of the things they were talking about cutting to fix this mess.

I suppose I could add:

6) It's CEO spends 25% of his time golfing.

 

 

Edited by Gromdor
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Earl.Of.Trumps
11 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I suggest you take a much closer look at the Kansas disaster. It's the perfect case study.

it's a singular case. You should look at the case of the US of A  as a much bigger picture.

No system is perfect. But free market is eons ahead of socialism.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It has been said that Trump is a great business man.  Let's look at the government under his leadership, shall we?

1) It spends more than it takes in. (Deficit)

2) It's credit cards are maxxed. (Reached the Debt Ceiling)

I'm in agreement with 1,2. This is an issue that has been a standard practice going back to Reagan but I thought Trump would know better.

Quote

not a problem for me

Quote

4) The business's doors are closed. (Government shutdown)

 

Quote

5) It's employees aren't getting paid.

it takes two to tango. congress has not handed him a budget bill to sign/veto. who's to blame? (4, 5)

Quote

So basically it is following the path of all his other bankrupt businesses.  The main difference though, is that the US citizens won't be able to wash their hands of it.  A 2 cent an hour pay raise for the tax cut won't offset a reduced Social Security payment when I retire.  That's one of the things they were talking about cutting to fix this mess.

I suppose I could add:

6) It's CEO spends 25% of his time golfing.

 

 

<grin>  ya. A tad high

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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Gromdor
6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

it's a singular case. You should look at the case of the US of A  as a much bigger picture.

No system is perfect. But free market is eons ahead of socialism.

It was a conservative governor and state legislature with a full majority undertaking the very tax cuts that the Republican ideal holds.  They were going to show the Unites States and the world that the conservative tax plan works.  It failed spectacularly.  The conservatives were the ones that had to admit defeat and raise taxes again: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/unpacked/2017/07/11/the-kansas-tax-cut-experiment/

It was the most straight forward and untainted experiment that it could be. 

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Hankenhunter
19 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It has been said that Trump is a great business man.  Let's look at the government under his leadership, shall we?

1) It spends more than it takes in. (Deficit)

2) It's credit cards are maxxed. (Reached the Debt Ceiling)

3) The management has a 65% turn over rate. https://www.brookings.edu/research/tracking-turnover-in-the-trump-administration/

4) The business's doors are closed. (Government shutdown)

5) It's employees aren't getting paid.

So basically it is following the path of all his other bankrupt businesses.  The main difference though, is that the US citizens won't be able to wash their hands of it.  A 2 cent an hour pay raise for the tax cut won't offset a reduced Social Security payment when I retire.  That's one of the things they were talking about cutting to fix this mess.

I suppose I could add:

6) It's CEO spends 25% of his time golfing.

 

 

Funny how that looks exactly like Trumps history before he got elected.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
Just now, Gromdor said:

It was a conservative governor and state legislature with a full majority undertaking the very tax cuts that the Republican ideal holds.  They were going to show the Unites States and the world that the conservative tax plan works.  It failed spectacularly.  The conservatives were the ones that had to admit defeat and raise taxes again: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/unpacked/2017/07/11/the-kansas-tax-cut-experiment/

It was the most straight forward and untainted experiment that it could be. 

Gromdor, face it, you are trying to get me to say that cutting taxes is WRONG and that we should have Ocasio-Cortez as president. 

Forgetaboutit!

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and then
18 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

2020 will see a lot more young people stepping up and upsetting the Apple cart and breaking the golden rule of politics - do no harm (to your chances of re-election). 

Nah.  The game is so rigged that if she really begins causing problems, she'll be stopped where it counts the most $$.

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Tatetopa
3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The above is true but these people very often do invest their revenues. A good example is Amazon, which started out as an online bookstore only.

Amazon is a great example.  A business invests where there is money to be made.  Amazon became a giga-corporation under the old tax structure.  They are expanding their existing markets and penetrating new ones.  Their growth is only limited by how creative they are and how fast they can move.  A tax break  might have been nice free money for them but it didn't determine their growth pattern.

Consider that a portion of taxes go for: roads, power grid, data transmission, security.  Corporations benefit by a robust support system.  Amazon probably uses a lot more of those resources that a working homeowner. So, maybe it would be better for Amazon growth to invest in 5G internet, stable power grids, fast railroads, good port facilities,  good highway systems, reduced urban traffic congestion. Good schools to train employees for today and prepare for the next advance  are vital to them.  If the government invested in those things it might be better than a tax break.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

It has been said that Trump is a great business man.  Let's look at the government under his leadership, shall we?

1) It spends more than it takes in. (Deficit)

2) It's credit cards are maxxed. (Reached the Debt Ceiling)

3) The management has a 65% turn over rate. https://www.brookings.edu/research/tracking-turnover-in-the-trump-administration/

4) The business's doors are closed. (Government shutdown)

5) It's employees aren't getting paid.

So basically it is following the path of all his other bankrupt businesses.  The main difference though, is that the US citizens won't be able to wash their hands of it.  A 2 cent an hour pay raise for the tax cut won't offset a reduced Social Security payment when I retire.  That's one of the things they were talking about cutting to fix this mess.

I suppose I could add:

6) It's CEO spends 25% of his time golfing.

Also consider in more than one interview he was proud of being the "King of Debt."  Smart for an aggressive businessman in a growth mode.  Especially good if when you fail, somebody else is holding the bag.    Really good if it all hits the fan in 10 years when you are not around.  May not be the best model for a country to follow though.  We are the folks that will be holding the bag. 

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Tatetopa
7 hours ago, aztek said:

is not something  democrats now embrace, or even fake to believe in. 

In this sense they have become Republicans.  Neither party is big on citizen service and volunteerism.

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Gromdor
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Gromdor, face it, you are trying to get me to say that cutting taxes is WRONG and that we should have Ocasio-Cortez as president. 

Forgetaboutit!

Cutting taxes is wrong if you do it incorrectly.  If it was the right thing to do we would have 0% taxes. 

She's only 28.  It will be almost a decade before she can even be eligible. 

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Golden Duck
1 hour ago, and then said:

Nah.  The game is so rigged that if she really begins causing problems, she'll be stopped where it counts the most $$.

You could reasonably expect her to learn a thing or two on the campaign trail with Sanders. However, she apparently can't answer a question with any depth.

She does seem to have picked up a trick from Trump - labelling an invitation from Shapiro as catcalling.

She's fooled some people do far; how long can she keep going.

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Kenemet
8 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

[BOINK]    speechless. :huh:

"We" should not judge how owners of businesses invest their money. No system is perfect. But if the Walton family knew in advance that Big Gov was going to force them to pay into a losing cause, should it be that way,  THERE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN A WALTON'S TO BEGIN WITH

Take the "incentive" away, Kenemet, and wee're all done raising new, up coming industrailists of all kinds.

My first response was about the number of jobs created - when you said that it was the wealthy who created jobs, I pointed out that they weren't spending those billions to make new jobs.  Most of them started with inherited wealth and businesses and built them up with profits from that business.  While they made an initial investment, they are not reinvesting their fortunes into the businesses and are indeed just sitting back and raking in profits.

And unlike the rest of us, the super-wealthy have tax advantages that 99% of America can't access.  So they haven't been pulling their weight. 

I think they should.

And darn few industrialists start out as farmers or shade tree mechanics with no capital backing.

 

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Hankenhunter
51 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Cutting taxes is wrong if you do it incorrectly.  If it was the right thing to do we would have 0% taxes. 

She's only 28.  It will be almost a decade before she can even be eligible. 

She's going to be a force to be reckoned with when she does though.

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Aquila King
2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Forgetaboutit!

Please tell me you're from New York, cause if so that'd be freaking hilarious. :lol:

fuhgeddaboudit.jpg

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ExpandMyMind
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

She's only 28.  It will be almost a decade before she can even be eligible. 

I think she would be old enough in 2024, but when she decided to run she would still be a birthday short. Seen people asking online if you can enter the race before the age limit if you would be old enough by the time you were sworn in. Not sure what the specifics are on it.

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