Dems propose abolishing EC

[+DieChecker]

19 hours ago, Aquila King said:

.....that the real reason most of you seem to support the EC has nothing to do with it being a fair democratic system, and instead has everything to do simply with its ability to elect Republican politicians against the will of the people. Every other argument in favor of the EC is merely rationalizations to justify the means to that end.

BS. it has nothing to due with Rs and Ds,  and everything to do with Populism. What is the record of Rs and Ds winning using the EC. 

The liberal sides gripe is that Granma Clinton didn't win. She knew the rules of the game and played it worse the Trump did. The end....

You say you didn't support the EC before the election. To which I'd say, to age comes wisdom.

18 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

The only reason that Progs want to do away with the EC is because they can’t afford to win fairly.  

No. It is spite at Clinton's loss. Didn't Clinton spend more? She just Sucked as an actual candidate. Regardless of her hidden health concerns.

[Aquila King]

32 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

The liberal sides gripe is that Granma Clinton didn't win. She knew the rules of the game and played it worse the Trump did. The end....

No. It is spite at Clinton's loss. Didn't Clinton spend more? She just Sucked as an actual candidate. Regardless of her hidden health concerns.

I'm on the record here as being disgusted with Clinton almost as much as I am Trump. As much as I despise Trump, I was overjoyed to see that old corrupt entitled wind bag lose to someone like Trump. Finally got what she deserved.

So no, it has nothing to do Hillary Clinton. I can assure you, no tears were she'd over her loss. 

[RavenHawk]

8 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

I don't think we should be a one person,one vote type of country and it has little to do with the EC...

For local elections, it is as good as anything else since in most cases you are not dealing with millions.  When you get into that kind of population, one-man, one-vote loses its power and meaning.

 

Walk down Main Street anywhere in the USA and talk to 25 people,ANY 25 people in any city in our country... What you will find is atleast half (most likely more than half) of our citizens are completely ignorant of the most basic facts of our government past to present!...

I loved watching Jay Leno’s Jay Walking segments.  Jesse Waters does something similar but it’s not quite as good.  But they both confirm this while we are entertained.  We should actually be sad about it.  They need to start teaching US History and Civics in school again.  But if you do that then Progs would lose Academia.

 

People should have to pass a test every 2-4 years for the ability to cast a vote...

Like renewing one’s driver’s license.  Take a test like they do for naturalization but a bit more intensive and it changes every so often to incorporate new laws and current history.

[RavenHawk]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

No. It is spite at Clinton's loss. Didn't Clinton spend more? She just Sucked as an actual candidate. Regardless of her hidden health concerns.

There is that too but for Progs is it all about Power.  Nothing else matters.  Not the needs or wants of the people, let alone the will of the people.  It’s the Progs that knows what’s better for the people.  Nothing is out of line in order to gain that power.  That is why they are attacking Trump.  They have to totally and completely destroy Trump and his supporters before they can destroy the Constitution.  They now have no inhibitions in place and are showing their hand like with abolishing the EC.  But I really think it will all backfire on them.

[aztek]

[+OverSword]

On 1/5/2019 at 7:28 AM, F3SS said:

Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tennessee)

Does he realize this would effectively eliminate the effectiveness for every presidential vote in his state?  No presidential candidate would have a need to campaign outside of New York, Texas or California again.

[CrimsonKing]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Does he realize this would effectively eliminate the effectiveness for every presidential vote in his state?  No presidential candidate would have a need to campaign outside of New York, Texas or California again.

That jackass doesn't care...EVERYTHING has become about party over substance anymore...

You think 90% of Dems ever ask themselves why or how almost all of their politicians are multimillionairs yet preach they are the ones who understand the poor?...or how almost 90% of hollywood or multi millionair athletes and other celebs always back their prefered candidates...

That's one thing i like about Cortez,if her 70% taxing of the rich idea breaks enough ground... holy hell i'm laughing just thinking about it lol

Clintons,Pelosi's,Hollywood,outspoken pro athletes...hahaha

"Where did MY fortune go?!"  

[+DieChecker]

On 1/7/2019 at 8:47 AM, Aquila King said:

I'm on the record here as being disgusted with Clinton almost as much as I am Trump. As much as I despise Trump, I was overjoyed to see that old corrupt entitled wind bag lose to someone like Trump. Finally got what she deserved.

So no, it has nothing to do Hillary Clinton. I can assure you, no tears were she'd over her loss. 

Yeah, I see you cut out the part about populism, and quoted the part where I call out the liberal argument. Way to look for offense.

I specifically called out liberals because you keep insisting your different...

[Aquila King]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Yeah, I see you cut out the part about populism, and quoted the part where I call out the liberal argument. Way to look for offense.

I specifically called out liberals because you keep insisting your different...

I cut out the rest of your post because I had already said previously that I'm pretty well done with this thread. Already said all I needed to say. No need to repeat myself.

I simply responded to the accusation that I was somehow bitter over Clinton's loss because I hadn't already addressed that here.

So again, I'm done with this thread. Stop trying to goad me into a pointless argument here.

[Farmer77]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:28 AM, F3SS said:

Dems start 2019 off angrier than ever about losing an election 2 years ago. Here, they propose a constitutional amendment to abolish the electoral college. The EC is a most genius system and perhaps the fairest national election system ever invented. These people are insane and irrational as can be.

 

Just venting a little

I was wholly against the concept just six months or so ago. Now IDK. When you look at the Qanon crowd and the millions who follow their lead without even knowing it uneducated voters have royally screwed up this nation and im no longer convinced that granting their votes more weight than mine is a solid concept.

Obviously there are a lot of generalizations in there but by and large statistically they are accurate. IDK that I would actually be for making the change if it came down to a vote but I am no longer opposed to engaging in the conversation.

 

 

[F3SS]

44 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Just venting a little

I was wholly against the concept just six months or so ago. Now IDK. When you look at the Qanon crowd and the millions who follow their lead without even knowing it uneducated voters have royally screwed up this nation and im no longer convinced that granting their votes more weight than mine is a solid concept.

Obviously there are a lot of generalizations in there but by and large statistically they are accurate. IDK that I would actually be for making the change if it came down to a vote but I am no longer opposed to engaging in the conversation.

 

 

Man that's a lot of hubris in that first paragraph. This one election didn't go your way. No need to destroy a great system because of it and denigrate 10's of millions of voters over Q followers. On that I think there's a lot less followers and even less hardcore believers than it you think. I've brought it up on occasion and really almost nobody seems to know about it. 

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Man that's a lot of hubris in that first paragraph. This one election didn't go your way

I know noone believes me at this point but in 2016 i didnt really have a way. I mean I voted for Stein but would have much preferred the meteor hit before any of us had to make that Sophie's choice of criminal vs criminal.

My problem isnt that people voted for Trump initially, I wholly understand that, its that in the face of clear and obvious evidence that Trump is inept at the job and bad for the nation they still support him. That means either they simply dont understand what is happening in our nation or they have motives which reach beyond worrying about the normal political issues (aka racist or just bitter and broken).

I will say that this article about foxnews and how they flat out deceive their viewers has tempered my vitriol a little bit ....OK damnit now I cant find the article...................... it did a wonderful job of dissecting the news that the rest of the world was talking about on a certain day (the day Mattis resigned If i recall)  and juxtaposing it with what foxnews was covering (mexicans, mexicans and for variety MS-13). Basically foxnews' evening viewers were never exposed to the turmoil the rest of the world was experiencing that day. 

 

4 minutes ago, F3SS said:

No need to destroy a great system because of it and denigrate 10's of millions of voters over Q followers. On that I think there's a lot less followers and even less hardcore believers than it you think. I've brought it up on occasion and really almost nobody seems to know about it. 

IDK that identifying the fact that they arent educated is really denigrating them. Like I said thats just statistics, uneducated voters vote GOP, college educated voters vote dem (by and large of course not EVERYONE) .

As for the Qanon thing the fact that millions are following and regurgitating the stuff that starts on there without knowing it makes it all the more frustrating.

 

[+DieChecker]

I think inept at the job is a bit harsh. What is the metric this is based on? Polls worded in specific ways by left leaning pollsters?

From what I've read, basically, Those how voted for Trump, still would vote Trump. He hasn't lost much, if any, of his base voters. AND... That should scare the crap out of the Democrats, whom, by favor of a system set up similar to the Electoral College, are over represented in the House. Republicans hold the Senate by the manipulation of that same system. Although, in the Senates case, more so, I'd say, since only a third are up for election in any regular election (2 yr) cycle.

I won't take much for the Democrat held House to swing back the other way. Just a handful of missteps at the right time could do it. 

Trump's done a lot of what he Promised those faithful voters, and he's done other good things, like bringing N.Korea to the edge of nuclear disarmament. He's pulled us from several shady Agreements, and reorganized NAFTA. I'd say that is not horrible. 

I'd call a man who follows his promises to be a success, not inept.

So, again, what is that metric of ineptitude? 

[F3SS]

14 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

I know noone believes me at this point but in 2016 i didnt really have a way. I mean I voted for Stein but would have much preferred the meteor hit before any of us had to make that Sophie's choice of criminal vs criminal.

My problem isnt that people voted for Trump initially, I wholly understand that, its that in the face of clear and obvious evidence that Trump is inept at the job and bad for the nation they still support him. That means either they simply dont understand what is happening in our nation or they have motives which reach beyond worrying about the normal political issues (aka racist or just bitter and broken).

I will say that this article about foxnews and how they flat out deceive their viewers has tempered my vitriol a little bit ....OK damnit now I cant find the article...................... it did a wonderful job of dissecting the news that the rest of the world was talking about on a certain day (the day Mattis resigned If i recall)  and juxtaposing it with what foxnews was covering (mexicans, mexicans and for variety MS-13). Basically foxnews' evening viewers were never exposed to the turmoil the rest of the world was experiencing that day. 

 

IDK that identifying the fact that they arent educated is really denigrating them. Like I said thats just statistics, uneducated voters vote GOP, college educated voters vote dem (by and large of course not EVERYONE) .

As for the Qanon thing the fact that millions are following and regurgitating the stuff that starts on there without knowing it makes it all the more frustrating.

 

I know you did. I remember. 

The man walks through a viper den every day while facing an onslaught of negative press yet carries on unphased doing good things for us. Just because you disagree with that doesn't mean that I'm incapable of understanding what's going on in the country and it certainly doesn't mean that your view is the only acceptable view and I don't think that you believe I'm racist, broken or bitter. 

Has everybody made it through the turmoil yet? A bit dramatic don't you think?

The mistake you make with your insinuations is that education equates to intelligence. The little commie girl from NY is highly educated yet doesn't know what the hell she's ever talking about and is in way over her head in her new position but yay for feelings! For that matter, you've talked about your past and I never heard talk about higher learning so please come down to earth. You'll tip over if you stand on that pedestal for too long.

 

[Farmer77]

8 hours ago, F3SS said:

The man walks through a viper den every day while facing an onslaught of negative press yet carries on unphased doing good things for us.

The fact that you believe he "walks through a viper den" is really stunning. The very first day in office his press secretary lied to the press, yelled at the press for not accepting those lies and then the administration straight up told us that facts dont matter and we would now be fed "alternative facts" and the absolute cavalcade of lies hasn't stopped since.

How should the press respond? Should they simply report the lies as fact? How would you like the press to respond if a liberal POTUS behaved like that? Should they ignore the absolute insanity coming from the WH?

I'm really glad the democrats have the house and that theyre going to be publicly broadcasting testimonies from Trumpworld starting with Cohen. While i understand the media has a bias the mantra that they are "fake news" has become a safe space for folks who are too politically biased to face reality and hopefully cutting out the middle men will help.

8 hours ago, F3SS said:

The mistake you make with your insinuations is that education equates to intelligence. The little commie girl from NY is highly educated yet doesn't know what the hell she's ever talking about and is in way over her head in her new position but yay for feelings! For that matter, you've talked about your past and I never heard talk about higher learning so please come down to earth. You'll tip over if you stand on that pedestal for too long.

Education doesnt guarantee intelligence but it does potentially arm one with the ability to see things from different angles that they may not have been able to before.

"That little commie girl" I love how much she scares the right wing.

Me I dont have a real "higher education".  Ive got a combined several years in vocational type schools the majority being flight schools and medic training, I do have an associates from that venerable institution the University of Phoenix which if I ever pull my head out of my ass and pay my fees should be a bachelors in administration.

I had already had several things happen that were forcing my worldview to evolve but working on the degree truly did change my thought processing. I definitely understand why the GOP has always railed against education as "brainwashing" .

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Farmer77

[F3SS]

You're a trip man.

[Farmer77]

9 hours ago, F3SS said:

I don't think that you believe I'm racist, broken or bitter. 

Sorry I didnt mean to ignore this, no I dont think youre racist broken or bitter.  I have however reached a point where I do have to question the motives of anyone still supporting Trump through that lens initially.

Like I said before that article about foxnews' broadcast coverage was really eye opening for me though, I read their site daily but dont get the network so almost never watch. If you are a fox news fan , and we know that their fans tend to be loyalists, there's a damn good chance that you truly havent been told whats actually going on in the world.

Thats why im so stoked on the public testimonies from Trumpworld, remove the filters. 

So I honestly dont know your viewing habits but you do seem like an intelligent fellow. Let me ask you, why do you think all the chaos trump is bringing is worth it? What has he actually, factually,  done to make it worth it?  Thats an honest question because from my perspective the only thing he has been good at is causing division and being mean to brown skinned people.

 

[aztek]

there is another argument for EC, people are too stupid to make correct choice, it's an argument for second Brexit referendum. so it should work here as well

[Aquila King]

God I wish I had found this video before. Would've saved me a whole lot of typing.

 

[F3SS]

Hey confirmation bias  i can do that too.