Emma_Acid Posted January 9, 2019 #51 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, and then said: When Mueller's report is issued there will be more innuendo and little else. There will be no criminal activity or proof of conspiracy by Trump because it never existed. . And here you basically illustrate my last point. Trump can do no wrong. Any accusation is a conspiracy. You've decided on the outcome before its even been announced. Can you not see how biased and illogical that is? I have no idea on collusion, but its looking pretty likely. However, I will hold off my judgment until the evidence is presented. But do you really think that the - what is it, six now? - arrests of people in his campaign group is just "innuendo"? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #52 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Trump's Bedminster Golf Course has a $300,000 membership fee, a wall, a guarded gate and yet he couldn't keep illegals out. Why should I trust him or you when you say, "It will work?" You gotta admit though...you gotta look really hard to see the illegals hanging out behind the trees on the 8th hole! Probably the Drug Lords are hiding out in a building like this one....peddling their goods to the children while their parents are out golfing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #53 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Emma_Acid said: And here you basically illustrate my last point. Trump can do no wrong. Any accusation is a conspiracy. You've decided on the outcome before its even been announced. Can you not see how biased and illogical that is? I have no idea on collusion, but its looking pretty likely. However, I will hold off my judgment until the evidence is presented. But do you really think that the - what is it, six now? - arrests of people in his campaign group is just "innuendo"? No..the arrests of people in his campaign group is NOT "innuendo"...it is a Witch Hunt. It's been a Witch Hunt from the beginning...before the beginning actually. What Comey and Mueller and the entire Obama Justice Dept has done to the integrity of the FBI and The CIA is atrocious! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted January 9, 2019 #54 Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, aztek said: this is happening in democrat controlled LA, this is what shumers , peloses.i and the rest of liberal fascists want usa look like. Firstly - "liberal fascists" - oh please. Secondly, the rise in homelessness in LA can be traced not only back to loss of manufacturing and defense jobs in the 80s, but also to Nixon's decentralisation of welfare structures in the 70s. It's way more complicated than you guys want to allow it to be. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted January 9, 2019 #55 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Still not seeing how that wall will stop drug smugglers That’s obvious but what is even more obvious is that you aren’t trying too. from just passing drugs right through it or tossing it over. I’d like to see someone try to throw a 2 kilo block over a 30’ wall and if they can, not have it break open on impact. In higher density areas, a wall with parapets would be better than a fence (steel-slat wall or whatever). But a wall is not a standalone defense. It still requires people to man it. One mile of wall will replace 1000 agents but it doesn’t do away with agents all together. It makes the agents more effective. Realtime observation via cameras and sensors will allow agents to respond to ‘interesting activity’ near or around the wall. A wall will give agents time to respond and expose the would-be infiltrator. Five billion on more border patrol agents would be more effective. Why pick the least effective method to solve a problem? We need more border agents as well. We need more of everything but a wall is a good first start. A wall may be low tech but when properly manned, is still the most effect barricade. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 9, 2019 #56 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said: Firstly - "liberal fascists" - oh please. \ your welcome, however i'd like to discuss a taste of a pineapple with those who tasted it. thank you for your concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted January 9, 2019 #57 Share Posted January 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, joc said: No..the arrests of people in his campaign group is NOT "innuendo"...it is a Witch Hunt. It's been a Witch Hunt from the beginning...before the beginning actually. What Comey and Mueller and the entire Obama Justice Dept has done to the integrity of the FBI and The CIA is atrocious! Illustrating my point once again. In no possible universe of yours would Trump ever actually be guilty of what he's accused of. You must see how utterly illogical that is. How can you give a leader - any leader - that kind of blind support? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #58 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said: Illustrating my point once again. In no possible universe of yours would Trump ever actually be guilty of what he's accused of. You must see how utterly illogical that is. How can you give a leader - any leader - that kind of blind support? It's more like reverse child psychology. The Leader we are NOT giving blind support to is Barrack Obama. We know of his skills in deceit because we all watched him (way to much) for eight years. What we know about Trump is that no one...NO ONE...was saying that Trump was a Racist, or a Treasonist, or anything at all bad about him....before...he threw his hat in the ring. And then...suddenly...he is the baddest, the worstest, the most lying, scoundrelist, lunaticist cutthroat of them all! He makes Jack The Ripper look like a Baptist Sunday School Teacher. But for those of us who know about his Character...and we know because we have watched him for years as well...we've watched his Playboy ways...we have watched him build his empire...we have watched his failures in marriage. We feel that we know him well enough to know he is not the Dirty, Rotten, Slimey, Stinking, Lying SOB that the Leftist Media Propaganda Machine tells us that he is. We know that Hillary Clinton's campaign, with cooperation from the DNC paid Christopher Steele to dig up dirt on Trump...it was Christopher Steele who used his influence with MI6 to collude with Russian Spies to create a dossier that painted Trump in an unbelievable atrocious light. And it was all fake. We know that Mueller's team lied to the FISA court to secure a warrant based on the Fake Dossier. We know that Comey exonerated Hillary before even interviewing her. Exonerated her of actual real crimes. The same crimes that have landed mere peons in Levinworth. We know who and what Trump is...and we know that he didn't need the Russians to win...he needed us to win and we know that he knows that. And we also know that Putin wanted Hillary to win because it almost certainly put him in a more powerful world role. Sorry Emma...we don't trust Obama, nor his holdovers...so...where does the actual logic end up? Trump is being railroaded for something that he most certainly is not guilty of....and why....because he beat Hillary!! She was the one...the one we have all been waiting for...the Third Obama Administration... ....the real question is...if Hillary had won...who would be backmailing her more...Putin...or Obama? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted January 9, 2019 #59 Share Posted January 9, 2019 59 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: What are you on about? That's the exact report that states clearly that most heroin comes through the ports of entry. Like two sentences after that quote of yours: 'A small percentage of all heroin seized by CBP along the land border was between Ports of Entry'. This means that, even with all of those thousands of miles of 'open border', the cartels already choose to take heroin through manned checkpoints. A border wall would be literally useless in stopping any drugs from coming through. They already come through available ports. And what are you even saying about the NYT? They reported this entirely accurately and fairly (From Toast's link): There was no 'bait and switch'. And why would I apologise to a guy who lies on average something like 17 times per day? A "World Leader" who has lied thousands (actual thousands) of times since being elected? "Most heroin smuggled into the United States does come through the southwest border, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s latest National Drug Threat Assessment report. But most of it is smuggled into the United States through legal ports of entry at the southern border, not through the desert, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s 2018 annual drug threat assessment." Hmm.. interesting....... I'll have to ponder on that. Nevertheless, President Trump was correct in his speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 9, 2019 #60 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: "Most heroin smuggled into the United States does come through the southwest border, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s latest National Drug Threat Assessment report. But most of it is smuggled into the United States through legal ports of entry at the southern border, not through the desert, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s 2018 annual drug threat assessment." Hmm.. interesting....... I'll have to ponder on that. Nevertheless, President Trump was correct in his speech. yes, most drugs brought in trucks, cars, trains as legit cargo, but we have plenty of undesirable elements jump thru border, that we need to stop. it's 2 separate issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpandMyMind Posted January 9, 2019 #61 Share Posted January 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: "Most heroin smuggled into the United States does come through the southwest border, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s latest National Drug Threat Assessment report. But most of it is smuggled into the United States through legal ports of entry at the southern border, not through the desert, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration’s 2018 annual drug threat assessment." Hmm.. interesting....... I'll have to ponder on that. Nevertheless, President Trump was correct in his speech. A lie of ommission is still a lie. As is presenting something wildly out of context for the purpose of promoting propaganda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 9, 2019 #62 Share Posted January 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, joc said: You gotta admit though...you gotta look really hard to see the illegals hanging out behind the trees on the 8th hole! Probably the Drug Lords are hiding out in a building like this one....peddling their goods to the children while their parents are out golfing... Pretty isn't it? One was even making Trump's bed there: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 9, 2019 #63 Share Posted January 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: I’d like to see someone try to throw a 2 kilo block over a 30’ wall and if they can, not have it break open on impact. In higher density areas, a wall with parapets would be better than a fence (steel-slat wall or whatever). But a wall is not a standalone defense. It still requires people to man it. One mile of wall will replace 1000 agents but it doesn’t do away with agents all together. It makes the agents more effective. Realtime observation via cameras and sensors will allow agents to respond to ‘interesting activity’ near or around the wall. A wall will give agents time to respond and expose the would-be infiltrator. You watch too much TV. Drug's aren't all packaged into neatly wrapped squares with plastic wrap. 39 minutes ago, RavenHawk said: We need more border agents as well. We need more of everything but a wall is a good first start. A wall may be low tech but when properly manned, is still the most effect barricade. Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man. - George S. Patton. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #64 Share Posted January 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Pretty isn't it? One was even making Trump's bed there: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted January 9, 2019 #65 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: A lie of ommission is still a lie. As is presenting something wildly out of context for the purpose of promoting propaganda. That seems like an extremely prejudiced comment, ExpandmyMind. You COULD argue that by preventing illegal immigration "in the desert", it would allow Border officials more manpower to focus on vehicles/people coming in through the "legal" channels, and hence improve the detection of drugs ? You call it a "lie"... I might call it a simplification in a short political speech ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 9, 2019 #66 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, joc said: Just saying, if Trump can't get a wall and guards to work keeping illegals out of his golf course, he sure isn't going to get it to work keeping illegals out of America. And unless he can convince people like me, he isn't going to get a wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted January 9, 2019 #67 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Gromdor said: Just saying, if Trump can't get a wall and guards to work keeping illegals out of his golf course, he sure isn't going to get it to work keeping illegals out of America. And unless he can convince people like me, he isn't going to get a wall. Soooo.... if he is prevented from building a wall, then he can't convince you to build a wall ? Ummmm........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 9, 2019 #68 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: Still not seeing how that wall will stop drug smugglers from just passing drugs right through it or tossing it over. Five billion on more border patrol agents would be more effective. Why pick the least effective method to solve a problem? The wall is a symbol. Most of his supporters realize that. It is tangible proof that action is being taken to improve border security. Obviously, neither party is really interested in stopping the flow or even in slowing it significantly. If they were, a simple law that would criminalize the hiring of non-citizens and deny them any benefits beyond emergency healthcare would take care of 80+ % of this problem. They come here for jobs - and welfare. Remove the incentive and the problem mostly will go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted January 9, 2019 #69 Share Posted January 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, joc said: The Fact is Trump was talking about the Wall...the fact is that Trump has been talking about the Wall since he came down the escalator. The "wall" is his main fetish. He is aware of the last supper coming soon, so his fetish is the only thing he can put on the table now. Quote ... in the drug dealer's face .. Ok, so you think that the "wall" will solve the US drug issue. Let me ask you something. How many walled prisons are in the US? 2000, 3000?. Can you confirm that all these walled prisons are drug-free? Curious. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 9, 2019 #70 Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man. - George S. Patton. First, a wall isn't a fortification. Second, Israel and Hungary are two perfect examples of how a determined government can use a barrier to stop an invasion by non-citizens. If he manages to get any significant amount of this barrier built, it won't surprise me if vandals try to destroy it from OUR side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #71 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, toast said: The "wall" is his main fetish. He is aware of the last supper coming soon, so his fetish is the only thing he can put on the table now. Ok, so you think that the "wall" will solve the US drug issue. Let me ask you something. How many walled prisons are in the US? 2000, 3000?. Can you confirm that all these walled prisons are drug-free? Curious. I have been talking about a Wall a lot longer than Trump has. I see nothing sexual about the wall...fetishes are sexual...the Wall is The Prerequisite for curbing illegal immigration on our Southern Border....and we need Real Security... No, I don't think a wall will solve the drug issue. Congress and past presidents have played a game called...The War on Drugs...What we need is a War...a real war....on drug dealers...in our cities...in other countries.... However...the reality of that gets to be a Sticky Widget really fast....so...I don't have the solution...nonetheless...in prisons...there are not...simply are....not...billions of dollars in drugs being smuggled in.... Anyway...I have been..too be redundant on purpose....talking about a Wall for the last 30 years. The logic is simple. If you want to stop illegal immigration...first...build an impenetrable wall along the border....second...begin exporting the illegals as they are found. That's pretty much it. And no...I'm not crying any tears for people who came over our borders illegally...raised a family...got a nice house and a nice truck and are good wholesome church going American Hispanics....send them back and let them start the legal process and then we'll talk. Too hard ass for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted January 9, 2019 #72 Share Posted January 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Just saying, if Trump can't get a wall and guards to work keeping illegals out of his golf course, he sure isn't going to get it to work keeping illegals out of America. And unless he can convince people like me, he isn't going to get a wall. He doesn't need to convince people like you...he needs people who are sitting at home while their bills pile up when they should be at work but aren't because the Democrats had rather see them in anguish then give Trump 5 billion dollars for border security..he needs them screaming at the Democrats...Give him the damn money...wtf...I have BILLS TO PAY!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenHawk Posted January 9, 2019 #73 Share Posted January 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: Sure, just spend billions on something How much do you think we spend on supporting illegals here, usually over the needs of our own people and homeless? $5 billion is a drop in a $4 trillion bucket. that very likely won't be effective anyway in case you one day manage to develop methods to stop drug smugglers from just driving across your border. A wall is pretty effective against a car. Most of the time the wall wins in that contest. A wall will give us time to develop other forms of detection and security. Really tackling the problem head-on there pal. More than you will understand. And I'm pretty sure that even a literal barren of drug mules wouldn't be able to transport undetected a tiny percentage of the heroin that comes across by the ton in lorries. It’s probably a bit more than a tiny percentage but they do it all the time without being detected. If the Port of Entries gets closed down, the Cartels will take a hit but will flood the border. The size of each individual shipment will be smaller but there will be a magnitude more of them. It’ll be more manpower intensive but more product will make it in. The real solution would be to spend those billions developing the methods you have envisioned. I envision developing everything. Low tech barriers, high tech surveillance, proper levels of manpower, ending sanctuary cities/states and closing the anchor baby loophole, Fining businesses that use illegals, deporting illegals and reviewing select individuals for amnesty. And if I’ve left anything out, then throw that in too. But it all begins with the wall. Let's be honest, the border wall is just a dog whistle. Let’s be honest, Progs don’t want border security. They need a means to maintain their powerbase and they are willing to sacrifice Americans to do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 9, 2019 #74 Share Posted January 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Soooo.... if he is prevented from building a wall, then he can't convince you to build a wall ? Ummmm........... Nah, He if can't keep illegals off his property with a wall, he can't convince me he can keep illegals out of the country with a wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 9, 2019 #75 Share Posted January 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, joc said: He doesn't need to convince people like you...he needs people who are sitting at home while their bills pile up when they should be at work but aren't because the Democrats had rather see them in anguish then give Trump 5 billion dollars for border security..he needs them screaming at the Democrats...Give him the damn money...wtf...I have BILLS TO PAY!!!! The Democrats are passing bills to get them to work. Trump is the only one that says their jobs are linked to the wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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