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acidhead

President Trump Addresses the Nation [VIDEO]

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Without a wall there isn't any real need for a tunnel is there? Stopping the flow of illegal narcotics has to be a multi-faceted approach or it will fail. Yes they already have tunnels and why? Because of the existing wall/fence. You have to stop the overland and underground routes and then you can concentrate on sea and air routes.

Or ya know just legalize the drugs and remove the financial motivation to smuggle them.  

Of course without a wall there isnt a need for a tunnel to be there. Without seismic sensors and other technology theres no sense in the wall being there but if you have all of that technology there is also no sense in spending the money to put a wall there.

5 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

The economic drain that illegal drugs and illegal immigrants are putting on the U. S. has to be stopped. No I don't want to hear that illegals do the work Americans won't do because that is just BS.

IDK about being willing to do the jobs Americans wont but the ones ive known worked circles around just about any American born citizen I ever met.

I simply dont buy the entire "War on drugs" concept. It was started by prohibition era feds who needed to keep a job once prohibition ended and expanded by Nixon to attack minorities and political rivals. Since then the war on drugs has destroyed countless more lives than drugs themselves have and now it has become nothing more than a financial boon for the anti american prison industrial complex.

Plus theres the minor issue of the fact that the vast majority of drugs that come across the southern border go through legal ports of entry so the wall wont affect that at all. Not to mention the meth scourge which can be made at home or in a walmart bathroom.

 

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RoofGardener

Has anyone sat back and questioned the motivation of the Democrats ? 

Why are they willing to dig their heels in THIS strongly over a 5 Billion dollar expenditure ? Especially when they have supported a wall in the past. 

I'm struggling to avoid the conclusion that this is a deliberate and cynical attempt to discredit the President, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the merits - or otherwise - of a wall per se

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The Truman show
4 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Has anyone sat back and questioned the motivation of the Democrats ? 

Why are they willing to dig their heels in THIS strongly over a 5 Billion dollar expenditure ? Especially when they have supported a wall in the past. 

I'm struggling to avoid the conclusion that this is a deliberate and cynical attempt to discredit the President, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the merits - or otherwise - of a wall per se

what about Trumps motivation? don't you think that this wall or rather the funding for it is a ruse for him to get reelected? i don't think that Trump wants a secure border or funding for it simply because he wouldn't have a platform to fight the next election. he's dramatising the border wall by shutting down government and sending troops. wall is gonna take over 10 years to build and 30 billion dollars. this is a project that even if started tomorrow, Trump will never see finished during his presidency. arguing for the wall is Trump's only goal and reward.

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The Truman show
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

I think you missed my point but youre kinda making it for me.

With all the technology that is available, and that will need to be deployed to back up the wall, there really isnt a need for a wall.

 

thats right there really isn't a need for a wall. the democrats don't want it, the republicans aren't thrilled about it. there are other less expensive options available. only Trump wants it. 

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The Truman show
4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Do not underestimate the President.  He is not trapped, simply cornered.    He has a power that few people understand.  That power is that he will let nothing get in his way.  He will dump on the United States or any portion of ifs people and if need be ,all the people in it  to get his way, save his precious ego,  or in the end to save himself and his family.  The rich hate to look like fools in front of the common people. Few patriotic people would even believe a US citizen could contemplate such actions, but our president thinks outside the box, he does.

not even cornered. Trump had the last two years to seek the funds for his wall from the republican controlled house. he had both houses. did he shut down the government when he asked for the funds for his wall when they didn't give it to him? did he send in the military? did he even ask the republican dominated house of rep's for the funds? this is a man who's playing a dangerous game in the corridors of power. 

Edited by Captain Risky

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

what about Trumps motivation? don't you think that this wall or rather the funding for it is a ruse for him to get reelected? i don't think that Trump wants a secure border or funding for it simply because he wouldn't have a platform to fight the next election. he's dramatising the border wall by shutting down government and sending troops. wall is gonna take over 10 years to build and 30 billion dollars. this is a project that even if started tomorrow, Trump will never see finished during his presidency. arguing for the wall is Trump's only goal and reward.

The wall was one of his campaign promises. He HAS been campaigning for it since he took office, but has faced on obstruction after another. As for the shutdown... umm.. wouldn't I be right in saying this is the first house budget he has presided over ? He has never had the OPTION to shut things down before ???? 

Edited by RoofGardener

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

thats right there really isn't a need for a wall. the democrats don't want it, the republicans aren't thrilled about it. there are other less expensive options available. only Trump wants it. 

The heads of Border Security want it ? 

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Golden Duck
7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The wall was one of his campaign promises. He HAS been campaigning for it since he took office, but has faced on obstruction after another. As for the shutdown... umm.. wouldn't I be right in saying this is the first house budget he has presided over ? He has never had the OPTION to shut things down before ???? 

His second.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_federal_budget

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_States_federal_budget

 

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joc
2 hours ago, Setton said:

So your southern border doesn't reach the coast? 

I know the stereotype is that Americans are terrible at geography but what exactly do you think would be at either end of the wall? A pot of gold? 

Yes...We affectionately refer to the 'pot of gold' as The United States Coast Guard and the United States Navy.

As you refer to the map below....most border crossings happen in Arizona and Texas.  What Trump wants is a Wall built in the prime areas where  crossings occur.  A physical barrier that would keep people from wafting over our border undetected.  I understand that may not be a huge concern to you...but it's a pretty big deal to a lot of us.  A Wall frees up Border Patrol agents who are already spread too thin and makes what they do safer, more productive and in the end...makes America safer.  

Trumps wants 5 billion dollars....the 2019 budget is close to 4.5 Trillion.  He is asking for .1%   To put that in perspective...if you made $100,000 last year...and your wife said...honey,  I need $100 to pay the security people.  And you say...No way babe! And she says, okay, all the checks in our account must have both signatures...I'm not signing the check for anything you want to do...not your Golf outings, not your car note, not the mortgage on the house....I want $100 damn it to keep our children safe.  And you say....what?

It's a 100 bucks!  The Dems hate Trump because he won.  They are holding people hostage basically by not giving him the money he asked for.  The Federal Workers who cannot pay their mortgages, who are not making their car notes...who are finding it difficult to even buy groceries and soon the electric bill, and the water bill, and the car needs new tires and on and on and on...over $100????

It is ridiculous.  The Democrats are playing games with Trump and the American Federal Workers are suffering for it...but not just the Federal Workers...a lot of people who have applied for Disability and have been approved can't get their checks...people in need are suffering at the hands of the Democrats in Washington.  

 

5c373ac457b57_southernborder.jpg.90564ae707073061cd8e77f31619b7e3.jpg

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Emma_Acid
11 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Other than cost, what are the cons to building the wall? No trolling, I’m genuinely curious. It’s just an inanimate structure that spans the width of the country. If the next President chooses to tear it down, so be it. But for right now, what harm will the wall itself cause? Why not just spend the money, build the damn wall and everyone can move the **** on?

 

Well - the cost is a big factor. You can't really ask anyone to ignore that as a factor.

Its a raging waste of time and resources, and at a base level is only there to appease the dog-whistle racism of the American right. It's pure scapegoating, nothing more. 

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Emma_Acid
11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

what are you talking about years ago in the history of our country that kids were ever infected by drugs.not many but so many today :)

And a wall is going to stop this??

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Emma_Acid
11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I say the same thing about democrats who go around beating up  -and sometimes, killing repubs. Ya, they listen to CNN, hate media central.

Classic "what-about-you"-ism. Don't address the issues raise, just wave your hands and say "we'll the other side are just as bad". What a state we're in, where that is the basis for political discourse. 

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Emma_Acid
11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

God help our greatest country :(

What does that even mean

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Emma_Acid
7 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Trump is 2017-2018.  He's got the same or small numbers than Obama.  Is he too busy building a wall and letting them all through?  Maybe we should bring Bush back.  He can stop 4x as many without a wall.

Its amazing isn't it? Trump actually makes you nostalgic for the president who once said "I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully"

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Buzz_Light_Year
9 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Well - the cost is a big factor. You can't really ask anyone to ignore that as a factor.

Its a raging waste of time and resources, and at a base level is only there to appease the dog-whistle racism of the American right. It's pure scapegoating, nothing more. 

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

Just one of the many sites that spells out the cost of illegal immigration to the government each year.

And as far as racism is concerned do a little history research on the Democrat party. The party of the Klan.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
6 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Yup, they see the corruption, cronyism farther up the chain, get discouraged and quit. Seems to happen a lot in this administration. Wonder why?

Yeah, it must have been a real morale booster to be a border patrol agent being shot and  killed by Mexican drug cartel members USING GUNS GIVEN TO THEM BY OBAMA.

Oh, yea!  I want to work for that man!

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Emma_Acid
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Has anyone sat back and questioned the motivation of the Democrats ? 

Why are they willing to dig their heels in THIS strongly over a 5 Billion dollar expenditure ? Especially when they have supported a wall in the past. 

I'm struggling to avoid the conclusion that this is a deliberate and cynical attempt to discredit the President, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the merits - or otherwise - of a wall per se

The cost wouldn't get through congress, it's not just the Democrats that are against it.

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Emma_Acid
30 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

And as far as racism is concerned do a little history research on the Democrat party. The party of the Klan.

I hear this over and over again when people accuse the right of racism. "The Democrats formed the Klan". Its a ridiculous thing to say, almost like saying the UK can't be against slavery because of the slave trade.

The Democrat party of the 21st century is demonstrably not "the party of the Klan". Anyone using that argument has run out of arguments.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Has anyone sat back and questioned the motivation of the Democrats ? 

Why are they willing to dig their heels in THIS strongly over a 5 Billion dollar expenditure ? Especially when they have supported a wall in the past. 

I'm struggling to avoid the conclusion that this is a deliberate and cynical attempt to discredit the President, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the merits - or otherwise - of a wall per se

Correct-o-mundo!   The House dems had no problem at all in giving $5 billion in aid to Mexico.  So the money is there.

I think the big players and benefactors in the drug and child sex slave trade are the dems. Witness, Obama giving weapons to Mexican drug cartels, "Fast and Furious"

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RoofGardener
54 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Well - the cost is a big factor. You can't really ask anyone to ignore that as a factor.

Its a raging waste of time and resources, and at a base level is only there to appease the dog-whistle racism of the American right. It's pure scapegoating, nothing more. 

If it is such a 'raging waste of time and resources', then why do the Border Force themselves want it ? Obviously, the Wall can't solve EVERY problem, but it is a big piece of the overall jigsaw. The wall would seek to channel both immigrants and drug smuglers into the official 'ports' of entry. Border Force agents can then concentrate their efforts at those ports, instead of being dispersed across with width of the nation ! That should make a SIGNIFICANT difference. 

Many politicians - including the Democrats - know this, as they have pushed for a wall themselves just a few years ago. Which makes their stubborn resistance to the idea NOW all the more suspicious. 

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Dark_Grey
12 hours ago, Aquila King said:

I'd almost be inclined to agree with you there. My primary objection to the wall is simply that it's a pointless endeavor. Doesn't necessarily hurt anyone besides cost, and Lord knows we already throw away 100 times that amount poured into countless other pointless things. So if it would shut you guys up about it then by all means, build your big stupid useless wall. :rolleyes:

That's where I'm at! I like the prospect of curbing illegal immigration but to be completely honest, griping about the wall (on both sides,) has gone on for almost 3 years now. Neither side is going to drop it and all it's doing now is tying up Government resources and time - literally. The Gov is at a standstill over this.

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Although I have heard a number of other perfectly fair and reasonable objections against it. For instance how it sets an extremely negative foreign policy precedent to erect a massive wall separating us from one of our closest allies. Or how a wall whose sole purpose is to divide people for no reason should not be one of our major national landmarks (which based on what Trump is asking for, thats basically what it would be).

Yeah, I get the argument that the wall may create bad optics for America but since Trump's election, do optics really matter any more? Not to mention there is a surprising amount of support for the wall coming from other countries. Peruse some FOX YouTube videos and read the comments some time. Comments from all over the world praising Trump and the wall. I think for the people in other countries that already look down on the US, a wall won't change their opinion either way.

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It's basically for nothing and the prime motivation for it is bigotry, so no, I'd definitely prefer not having one

Well, it's not motivated by bigotry (and least not primarily,) and it would have a substantial impact on illegal immigration. Let's not hash that argument out right now cause I would like to keep focusing on the down sides of the wall, even if they are only symbolic.

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RAyMO

Well, I find it amusing that the Americans came up with the same solution as the Chinese - albeit nearly 3000 years later.

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Dark_Grey
11 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Well there is serious environmental concern about migration patterns and the toll from the construction equipment and the admin has already waved any EPA oversight on the project.

There is definitely an argument to made there but they would have to pretend all the big business they support on the side isn't also doing major damage. Fracking, etc. 

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There is also the constitutional problem of enacting imminent domain and taking land away from US citizens who live on the border.

Interesting. Surely there would be compensation for land owners or some kind of agreement worked out. Is it written in a proposal that land for the wall should be taken by force? Where did that idea come from?

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Plus 5 billion dollars could do a lot of tangible good in our society

It could, but there is a good argument that the wall will be beneficial for society by making it harder from criminals to waltz across a patch of dirt. You know the talking points. Not to mention the wanton waste that goes on in Government - $5 billion is not as much as it sounds when compared to other budgets and projects will less direct benefits. 

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rather than being used to mildly obstruct less than 20% of all illegal immigrants.

 

The numbers vary, depending on the source

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Plus on a personal level  as someone who grew up during the Berlin wall days I prefer not to have our nation associated with that imagery.

Completely understandable but when taken in the context of the rest of the world, a border wall is more common than not. No different than a wall around your personal property and built for most of the same reasons.

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Dark_Grey
1 hour ago, Emma_Acid said:

Well - the cost is a big factor. You can't really ask anyone to ignore that as a factor.

True, but if you really dig in to the insane bureaucratic waste that goes on in nearly every department of Government, the questionable social programs that cost and arm and a leg ("Obama phone"?) waste in unnecessary welfare alone could pay for the wall. If the Pentagon could "lose" trillions of dollars on 9/10/2001 and the country moved on without skipping a beat, $5 billion to shut every one up and greatly increase security on the border seems like a small price to pay.

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Its a raging waste of time and resources,

Actually it would create much needed American jobs which you could argue would offset some of the building costs. Maintenance costs on a simpler wall design should be minimal, I imagine.

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and at a base level is only there to appease the dog-whistle racism of the American right. It's pure scapegoating, nothing more. 

Possibly, though Obama had already approved funds and the Clintons had called for a border wall in the past. The media made this a "right wing" issue, not the elected officials.

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