What is going on

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I didn’t call him a liar, I said he didn’t have evidence. 

And your  default position for a person who makes such claims, and can't provide evidences, is? 

[+Hammerclaw]

I don't know ghosts exist. There is no empirical evidence they do exist. Therefore, the only honest answer I can give is that I'm inclined to think they don't exist. I'm quite open to being persuaded otherwise, but their chief champion here has not been at all forthcoming or helpful in that regard. Thus, death remains for me, that "Undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns". 

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Walker

You do and have told myself and other's what we think and tell us we are not correct in our personal beliefs which is subjective and if it is a personal belief then why would another accept your corrections when it is known that they do not share your point of view.

You have been arguing the bible, one book that you do not interpret in the same manner and insist that you are right even though you don't correct other's beliefs. 

Well you would have me believe that I have a religion and as you earlier posted in the new world of words that religion is comprised of a supernatural force/entity/etc, rites and rituals without the trappings of costumes, buildings or any written or organized documentation. I don't have an entity super, ultra, or regular natural, there are no rites or rituals and there is nothing said by any unknown unprovable entities. Now I say it's not a religion, a personal belief, yes, a way of living of course, do I think everyone needs to join, no and thankful for it.

jmccr8

Yup From your pov all true.

Yep i argue with  points of view I think are harmful,  but otherwise anyone is entitled to any belief or view.

Ive been arguing one interpretation of the bible, based on 40 years of study and reading, and working with many different groups.  I may not be right but I am informed, and the factual points i make about the bible are correct. 

The bible  is the source of Christianity.   Some religions have deliberately, under their own authority, moved away from the bible and its clear principles and statements, and formed what is now really a non biblical form of Christianity   (a study of Christianity over the centuries will confirm this )  

Actually i said i thought you did NOT have a religion, making me in agreement with you. 

But i did say that you COULD have a religion of one, if you  formalised your  beliefs, ritualised them, and practiced them each day, as your own individual religion.

You could live alone in a cave, on the top of a mountain in Tibet, and follow a religion only you accepted, and which you had invented.  

However, given the information you gave, I said you did not appear to be religious, just spiritual  That is a a state of mind, rather than a way of living.  

Wanting others to join you, or not, doesn't make your life any less, or more, religious.

It is simply religious if you live it as a religion,  even your very own religion.    

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Yup From your pov all true.

Yep i argue with  points of view I think are harmful,  but otherwise anyone is entitled to any belief or vie

Hi Walker

More times than not I see points of view arguing against beliefs, and who determines what is a harmful point of view as you have come under scrutiny on occasions for some of your points of view. Subjective interpretation of the beliefs of others holds little impact.

7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Ive been arguing one interpretation of the bible, based on 40 years of study and reading, and working with many different groups.  I may not be right but I am informed, and the factual points i make about the bible are correct. 

That is just it, you are arguing one interpretation of the bible and yes you do have some good insights but that does not mean that your personal interpretation is of greater or absolute value.

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The bible  is the source of Christianity.   Some religions have deliberately, under their own authority, moved away from the bible and its clear principles and statements, and formed what is now really a non biblical form of Christianity   (a study of Christianity over the centuries will confirm this )  

Could you give a link as to which accepted Christian religions do not actively use the bible in services or teaching as this fundamental to their faith?

14 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Actually i said i thought you did NOT have a religion, making me in agreement with you

That may not have been clear given some of the dialogue between yourself and me or with Cormac since you came back from the hospital.

17 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

But i did say that you COULD have a religion of one, if you  formalised your  beliefs, ritualised them, and practiced them each day, as your own individual religion.

Well, in that case, I shave religiously because it is a ritual that I practice daily maybe I should whip up a couple of gods in a conflict like the god of the blade that wages war on the god of the beard. To me I believe in me and therefore my life which I live according to my belief, I don't need to create answers from a mythological being be it known or of my own fabrication so when I am talking to someone nice or not I am not seeing two devils and angels sitting there with us pounding out a deal or having to send it off to the big guy for approval. It may be that because I build things and make them exist in a real world right from it's first impression in my mind and all that ensued in giving it life that I am less inclined to create that entity simply because I cannot make it real and gods exist because of men. I just live my day every day going to bed not knowing or caring if there is a tomorrow and when my eyeballs pop open the next morning I go to work on what must be done whether I like it or not at times but we can't grow if we don't do things that are difficult and the only guy I hear talking in my head is me even when I use Donald Duck and Barry White voices.

54 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You could live alone in a cave, on the top of a mountain in Tibet, and follow a religion only you accepted, and which you had invented.  

However, given the information you gave, I said you did not appear to be religious, just spiritual  That is a a state of mind, rather than a way of living.  

Wanting others to join you, or not, doesn't make your life any less, or more, religious.

It is simply religious if you live it as a religion,  even your very own religion.

I am a member of the human race undefined by religious, political, cultures, or race/heritage, just two-legged talking air breathers that have the same potential qualities that I do. Now don't go thinking I am going to just give away all that hard-earned knowledge that damn near got me killed several times over for free do you? I don't agree with your interpretation of what a religion is and that won't change, but I can have fun teasing you a bit. 

jmccr8

[eight bits]

6 hours ago, Habitat said:

Hardly. How about trying really weally hard to understand that "fellow bull****ers" is an accusation of lying. Old eight bits professes to hate being called a liar, but gives his fellow team members a leave pass ! What a crummy mob !

I don't hate it, I just won't tolerate it.

You invited the community to read post 108. So far, nobody who's accepted your invitation is seeing an accusation of lying.

I understand Hammerclaw's term which ended up in asterisks as someone who peddles BS. There are two parts to lying: both departing from the facts (yes, fine, that's a fair reading of the post and the censored term; if the shoe fits, then wear it) and knowing better. I see zero evidence that you do know better, and nothing in the post so much as suggests that you know better, or know anything at all for that matter.

Can't you at least stop baiting all the time?

Edited January 29, 2019 by eight bits

[Habitat]

32 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I don't hate it, I just won't tolerate it.

You invited the community to read post 108. So far, nobody who's accepted your invitation is seeing an accusation of lying.

I understand Hammerclaw's term which ended up in asterisks as someone who peddles BS. There are two parts to lying: both departing from the facts (yes, fine, that's a fair reading of the post and the censored term) and knowing better. I see zero evidence that you do know better, and nothing in the post so much as suggests that you know better, or knows anything at all for that matter.

Can't you at least stop whining all the time?

Spoken like a true "wily" lightweight. A total and complete hypocrite who complained that someone else accused him of lying, then approves of this grub who has absolutely no way of knowing what the truth of what I said, may be. If this little "team" is a "community", I'd call it Grubsville !

Edited January 29, 2019 by Habitat

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

More times than not I see points of view arguing against beliefs, and who determines what is a harmful point of view as you have come under scrutiny on occasions for some of your points of view. Subjective interpretation of the beliefs of others holds little impact.

That is just it, you are arguing one interpretation of the bible and yes you do have some good insights but that does not mean that your personal interpretation is of greater or absolute value.

Could you give a link as to which accepted Christian religions do not actively use the bible in services or teaching as this fundamental to their faith?

That may not have been clear given some of the dialogue between yourself and me or with Cormac since you came back from the hospital.

Well, in that case, I shave religiously because it is a ritual that I practice daily maybe I should whip up a couple of gods in a conflict like the god of the blade that wages war on the god of the beard. To me I believe in me and therefore my life which I live according to my belief, I don't need to create answers from a mythological being be it known or of my own fabrication so when I am talking to someone nice or not I am not seeing two devils and angels sitting there with us pounding out a deal or having to send it off to the big guy for approval. It may be that because I build things and make them exist in a real world right from it's first impression in my mind and all that ensued in giving it life that I am less inclined to create that entity simply because I cannot make it real and gods exist because of men. I just live my day every day going to bed not knowing or caring if there is a tomorrow and when my eyeballs pop open the next morning I go to work on what must be done whether I like it or not at times but we can't grow if we don't do things that are difficult and the only guy I hear talking in my head is me even when I use Donald Duck and Barry White voices.

I am a member of the human race undefined by religious, political, cultures, or race/heritage, just two-legged talking air breathers that have the same potential qualities that I do. Now don't go thinking I am going to just give away all that hard-earned knowledge that damn near got me killed several times over for free do you? I don't agree with your interpretation of what a religion is and that won't change, but I can have fun teasing you a bit. 

jmccr8

That is my point. My values are based on applying criteria reference assessment of results which occur when the beliefs are ACTED upon.

This can be measured objectively not subjectively.  So i chose values which, when applied in practice, will have the most constructive results for the most people (and for our environment) . NOT on emotive or belief driven values 

Its not my personal interpretation. It is the interpretation of scholars which, first is the most accurate, and second, again brings the most positive results when followed.

Yes there are other interpretations, but, when applied, they do more harm and hurt to more people. 

The catholic church does not see the bible as the arbiter of doctrine because the y believe the pope is actually "god on earth", given the divine authority of god from the time of Peter,   and thus has the power to alter, interpret, and create, doctrine. 

Their bible is quite different in places to others, and for centuries no catholic lay person was allowed to own a bible or read one . 

if your shaving was based on faith, then it would be religious practice and make you a religious person But you said you were not. 

your longest paragraph is your most informative and makes it clear that you are spiritual but not religious.

On the other hand you  have not had some of the experiences other humans have had which have shaped and influenced their understanding of god, and their relationship with god. 

Your point in the last para is not clear to me

First you are  a member of humanity, and thus have similarities with us all, but second, you are a unique individual, and thus have differences.     Ie you ARE, in part, defined by race, gender, culture, family, etc., but also, you have the ability to be anyone you want to be. 

I don't mind being teased, especially when it is done in fun and  without anger or hate, but i have a fairly odd sense of humour and i don't tend to mix serious and humorous stuff, or it would get off the rails very quickly. 

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

That is my point. My values are based on applying criteria reference assessment of results which occur when the beliefs are ACTED upon.

This can be measured objectively not subjectively.  So i chose values which, when applied in practice, will have the most constructive results for the most people (and for our environment) . NOT on emotive or belief driven values 

Hi Walker

Yes, sure and none of that is dependent on god or religion, on a personal level I look at the objective real physical world that I experience present and past and know that how I interpret it is all subjective but over time placed myself in different positions with an open mind and observed again and developed a belief based on observation and have endeavored to augment with understanding what science observes to me god is the ability to do these things because we have potential and always will no matter what.

16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Its not my personal interpretation. It is the interpretation of scholars which, first is the most accurate, and second, again brings the most positive results when followed

Not all scholars agree, were you being selective?

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Yes there are other interpretations, but, when applied, they do more harm and hurt to more people.

Yeah well"Killing Me Softly" was a nice romantic song but when discussing the bible it takes more than a spoon full of sugar to make the killing go away.

23 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The catholic church does not see the bible as the arbiter of doctrine because the y believe the pope is actually "god on earth", given the divine authority of god from the time of Peter,   and thus has the power to alter, interpret, and create, doctrine.

There are bibles in the pews the priest reads the gospels of the bible every day, sometimes twice if they have a sinners mass on Sunday, they use it for wedding/ funerals and baptisms and you want me to believe that it is not an active agent in the maintenance of the religion, sorry no sale

28 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

if your shaving was based on faith, then it would be religious practice and make you a religious person But you said you were not.

Yes, but what about my gods?

29 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

On the other hand you  have not had some of the experiences other humans have had which have shaped and influenced their understanding of god, and their relationship with god. 

Well that may not be true, I may have had many experiences that others have had that they interpreted in a different way.

32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Your point in the last para is not clear to me

First you are  a member of humanity, and thus have similarities with us all, but second, you are a unique individual, and thus have differences.     Ie you ARE, in part, defined by race, gender, culture, family, etc., but also, you have the ability to be anyone you want to be.

Yes I am a member of the human race and quite enjoy it so no need for me to go off on a mountain and talk to myself until I create a non-me to talk back, no not happening. I don't see a world of tags or distinction in as much as I do the similarities because it creates a better interactive experience, I see everyone as an extension of myself through reflection.

38 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I don't mind being teased, especially when it is done in fun and  without anger or hate, but i have a fairly odd sense of humour and i don't tend to mix serious and humorous stuff, or it would get off the rails very quickly.

When are these discussions ever on the rails?

jmccr8

[Will Due]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Join what, Will?

 

Your religion. 

 

 

[Will Due]

5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

If your talking to me what exactly outside of your perspective are you suggesting I join

 

Your religion. 

 

 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

 

Your religion. 

 

 

Hi Will

I think if you read my past few posts you should/could/maybe if you squint see what an impossibility it is for me to accept your concept of religion as feasible for me and what I do is just live life best I can.

jmccr8

[Habitat]

28 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Will

I think if you read my past few posts you should/could/maybe if you squint see what an impossibility it is for me to accept your concept of religion as feasible for me and what I do is just live life best I can.

jmccr8

Rugged individualism is your creed ?

[Mr Walker]

15 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Yes, sure and none of that is dependent on god or religion, on a personal level I look at the objective real physical world that I experience present and past and know that how I interpret it is all subjective but over time placed myself in different positions with an open mind and observed again and developed a belief based on observation and have endeavored to augment with understanding what science observes to me god is the ability to do these things because we have potential and always will no matter what.

Not all scholars agree, were you being selective?

Yeah well"Killing Me Softly" was a nice romantic song but when discussing the bible it takes more than a spoon full of sugar to make the killing go away.

There are bibles in the pews the priest reads the gospels of the bible every day, sometimes twice if they have a sinners mass on Sunday, they use it for wedding/ funerals and baptisms and you want me to believe that it is not an active agent in the maintenance of the religion, sorry no sale

Yes, but what about my gods?

Well that may not be true, I may have had many experiences that others have had that they interpreted in a different way.

Yes I am a member of the human race and quite enjoy it so no need for me to go off on a mountain and talk to myself until I create a non-me to talk back, no not happening. I don't see a world of tags or distinction in as much as I do the similarities because it creates a better interactive experience, I see everyone as an extension of myself through reflection.

When are these discussions ever on the rails?

jmccr8

 Of course it isnt dependent on god or religion, but it is dependent on having conscious values and beliefs 

Not selective just a simple accurate statement Those ideas didn't originate with me, but with scholars (and quite a wide range and significant number of them )

Which bible? 

And who has the greater authority?  The bible as you read and understand it through study or the priest and ultimately the pope 

I am sure it is used for ceremonial purposes like marriages and funerals  but is it seen as the way by which to live your daily life? 

What about your gods? Having a god or gods doesn't, in itself, make you religious. 

 

The y would be a lot more off the rails, if I allowed my "calvin- side",  free rein