+susieice Posted January 18, 2019 #101 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Gromdor said: It is. But with tunnel vision on the Constitution only, it is hard to explain to others. You aren't reading the links. He can convene Congress. He can give the speech from the Oval Office or the National Mall if he so chooses. The House can refuse to attend. I don't know what happens then but I'm thinking he can just send them the letter informing them or maybe he won't need to. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 18, 2019 #102 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, susieice said: You aren't reading the links. He can convene Congress. He can give the speech from the Oval Office or the National Mall if he so chooses. The House can refuse to attend. I don't know what happens then but I'm thinking he can just send them the letter informing them or maybe he won't need to. Yup. What Lost Shaman was trying to say was that he can convene Congress and go in there and make them listen to his speech from the congress floor. You are totally correct that he can do the speech from the oval office or anyplace else. He could even do it on Fox News. He had tunnel vision on the one article in the Constitution and the idea of forcing Congress to sit there and listen to Trump. Edit to add: Or did you mean to quote Lost Shaman? Edited January 18, 2019 by Gromdor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted January 18, 2019 #103 Share Posted January 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, and then said: Yes, and I'm certain that any civility that still remained has gone away since these freshmen congresspeople have landed. The same thing would happen if he held the address at a venue that was public. He needs to get out in the country and take his message personally to as many of his constituents as possible. He should buy ads to push the message as well. The Democrats, as a whole, seem to loathe the man and he doesn't need to waste time trying to convince them of anything. The only way he can combat a propagandist media is to get out there and be among the people. It is delusional to think that trying to accommodate people who literally hate you, is going to help anything. You have a point there. I wouldn't bet a cup of coffee on restraint or civility. Very true that this time is steeped in partisan acrimony. I would like to mention though that there is a power struggle playing out between the Executive and Legislative Branches. It is beneath the facade of the people you like and hate. There is a system of Constitutional checks and balances. As an executive uses the powers allotted he may test the limits of that power. A Congress of the same party may be inclined to be more permissive of that and agree to an expanded interpretation. A Congress of the opposition party will be jealous of the Legislative Powers and .push back toward what they feel is a co-equal position. An address on the State of the Union is an expectation set by the Constitution. It could be fulfilled in person, in writing, or maybe even by Twitter. Something has to be delivered to Congress even if it is a half page handwritten note. Now the President can get out and hold a rally and assure a favorable audience. He can buy ads. Probably that is what he should continue to do. There is a part of me that thinks of that as campaigning rather than governing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted January 18, 2019 #104 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 hours ago, and then said: Yes, and I'm certain that any civility that still remained has gone away since these freshmen congresspeople have landed. The same thing would happen if he held the address at a venue that was public. He needs to get out in the country and take his message personally to as many of his constituents as possible. He should buy ads to push the message as well. The Democrats, as a whole, seem to loathe the man and he doesn't need to waste time trying to convince them of anything. The only way he can combat a propagandist media is to get out there and be among the people. It is delusional to think that trying to accommodate people who literally hate you, is going to help anything. it's actually quite the opposite, the more you attack them and kick their teeth in, the more they like you. seems like nonsense, but the nature is very counter intuitive, that is why many things we do for the better end up being much worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted January 18, 2019 #105 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: Yup. What Lost Shaman was trying to say was that he can convene Congress and go in there and make them listen to his speech from the congress floor. You are totally correct that he can do the speech from the oval office or anyplace else. He could even do it on Fox News. He had tunnel vision on the one article in the Constitution and the idea of forcing Congress to sit there and listen to Trump. Edit to add: Or did you mean to quote Lost Shaman? No, you're right. I just meant to say he can convene Congress. What happens if they refuse to attend, I don't know. I don't think that's ever happened before. I just saw somewhere that a Representative from Michigan invited him to give the SOTU in their House. Who knows if that's even true. All kinds of stuff is flying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 18, 2019 #106 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Gromdor said: What Lost Shaman was trying to say was that he can convene Congress and go in there and make them listen to his speech from the congress floor. Can he not give a speech to Congress if he chooses to do so? It's his duty to inform Congress on the SOTU under Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution. If he wants to speak then if they refuse to listen is that not a dereliction of their (the Congress') own duty to be given the "information of the State of the Union"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 19, 2019 #107 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, lost_shaman said: Can he not give a speech to Congress if he chooses to do so? It's his duty to inform Congress on the SOTU under Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution. If he wants to speak then if they refuse to listen is that not a dereliction of their (the Congress') own duty to be given the "information of the State of the Union"? He can freely give a speech to Congress from outside of Congress. Pelosi would have to give him the floor for him to do it inside. (I.E. give him permission.) They made those rules so random people can't just walk into Congress and give speeches. Normally none of this would be an issue, but everyone currently involved behaves like 5th graders. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted January 19, 2019 #108 Share Posted January 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Normally none of this would be an issue, but everyone currently involved behaves like 5th graders. All while countless government workers who live paycheck to paycheck are slaves forced to work without pay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted January 19, 2019 #109 Share Posted January 19, 2019 If anyone is concerned about working without pay don't ever open your own business. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted January 19, 2019 #110 Share Posted January 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, Michelle said: If anyone is concerned about working without pay don't ever open your own business. No doubt ma'am... The old saying "it takes money to make money" is FACT! The problem is,sometimes people think "Ha,so you come from money and a privileged background"... Reality though,it's called DEBT...before ya ever see profit,and then sometimes after... It's the "original" American way! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 19, 2019 #111 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Gromdor said: He can freely give a speech to Congress from outside of Congress. He could also adjourn the House and just shut them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 19, 2019 #112 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said: He could also adjourn the House and just shut them down. Nah, Constitution only allows him to call a special session, not end them. You have to remember, separate but equal. He may want to be a dictator, but his power does have limits. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted January 19, 2019 #113 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said: No doubt ma'am... The old saying "it takes money to make money" is FACT! The problem is,sometimes people think "Ha,so you come from money and a privileged background"... Reality though,it's called DEBT...before ya ever see profit,and then sometimes after... It's the "original" American way! Ma'am? Now that I've found out you're a pup I'm suddenly a ma'am? It is much more polite than other words I've been called. It is difficult at times. People don't understand what all is involved and think you are your own boss and have it made. Yeah right, after we make our employees, costumers, landlord, the tax man, etc,... happy, even during recessions. It's not easy and I never expected it to be. Edited January 19, 2019 by Michelle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_shaman Posted January 19, 2019 #114 Share Posted January 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Nah, Constitution only allows him to call a special session, not end them. You have to remember, separate but equal. He may want to be a dictator, but his power does have limits. "he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted January 19, 2019 #115 Share Posted January 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Michelle said: It is difficult at times. People don't understand what all is involved and think you are your own boss and have it made. Yeah right, after we make our employees, costumers, landlord, the tax man, etc,... happy, even during recessions. It's not easy and I never expected it to be. I bought a share in a sawmill years ago. We lasted about 10 years and fortunately got bought by a bigger operator. But I tell you what, that was the hardest I ever worked and for the least money. I was young and it was fun, so I kept at it. After 10 years though, I had no savings, I did not own a home, all our money went into equipment to keep competitive. I know all the business advisers say pay yourself first, but that is pretty hard to do in real life, especially if you like what you are doing and are good at it. I respect you so much for your business. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted January 19, 2019 #116 Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Michelle said: Ma'am? Now that I've found out you're a pup I'm suddenly a ma'am? It is much more polite than other words I've been called. It is difficult at times. People don't understand what all is involved and think you are your own boss and have it made. Yeah right, after we make our employees, costumers, landlord, the tax man, etc,... happy, even during recessions. It's not easy and I never expected it to be. Meh...i've called ya ma'am before,Mrs Michelle...Southern manners As for "pup"...I only discovered i was a "millenial" by technicallity due to that ass hat @Bama13 pointing it out to me during one of my epic rants involving his favorite football team and our "gimme" generation... Hell i just weeks back turned 35,i was the begining of the Millenial!... Second half...Very well put!... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 19, 2019 #117 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, lost_shaman said: He could also adjourn the House and just shut them down. Now THAT sounds like the actions of a King (Charles the First for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 19, 2019 #118 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, lost_shaman said: "he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper," You forgot the rest: Art. II, §3 (“In Case of Disagreement between [the Houses], with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, [the President] may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper”). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl.Of.Trumps Posted January 19, 2019 #119 Share Posted January 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Now THAT sounds like the actions of a King (Charles the First for example). King Donald the unth. I like it! US has never had a King before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted January 19, 2019 #120 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said: King Donald the unth. I like it! US has never had a King before. Ya know, it shouldn't surprise me at this point how completely un-American much of the Trump cult is, but at times like this it still surprises me... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted January 19, 2019 #121 Share Posted January 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, Gromdor said: You forgot the rest: Art. II, §3 (“In Case of Disagreement between [the Houses], with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, [the President] may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper”). CAN PELOSI STOP TRUMP FROM ENTERING CONGRESS? Of course, parliamentary procedures might not be enough to stop the president from speaking, even if Pelosi bangs her gavel and tells him to stop. This would lead us into uncharted territory. Members who speak out of order open themselves up to "censure or such other punishment as the House may consider proper," according to existing rules. But for a non-member speaking out of order, it's hard to tell what exactly could happen. For protesters interrupting House business, the congressional sergeants at arms and other officers will remove the offending parties. Whether or not this would happen for a sitting president is a question that has not yet been answered in U.S. history. It would never, could never, get this far, would it, could it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted January 19, 2019 #122 Share Posted January 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Aquila King said: Ya know, it shouldn't surprise me at this point how completely un-American much of the Trump cult is, but at times like this it still surprises me... Much of the "Trump cult" know he is an idiot, but prefer that over a career politician. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted January 19, 2019 #123 Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Golden Duck said: CAN PELOSI STOP TRUMP FROM ENTERING CONGRESS? Of course, parliamentary procedures might not be enough to stop the president from speaking, even if Pelosi bangs her gavel and tells him to stop. This would lead us into uncharted territory. Members who speak out of order open themselves up to "censure or such other punishment as the House may consider proper," according to existing rules. But for a non-member speaking out of order, it's hard to tell what exactly could happen. For protesters interrupting House business, the congressional sergeants at arms and other officers will remove the offending parties. Whether or not this would happen for a sitting president is a question that has not yet been answered in U.S. history. It would never, could never, get this far, would it, could it? I doubt it. But then again, I have seen videos of law makers fist fighting in parliament. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila King Posted January 19, 2019 #124 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Myles said: Much of the "Trump cult" know he is an idiot, but prefer that over a career politician. Not really what I'm saying here... If someone is honestly okay with Trump (or anyone for that matter) being King of America, then they're just a brainwashed cult follower. Nuff said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted January 19, 2019 #125 Share Posted January 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Tatetopa said: There is a part of me that thinks of that as campaigning rather than governing. He can only do so much without any help from the Congress. At this point, he has to either stand on his principles and his promises or he is lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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