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susieice

Smiley Face Murders

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susieice

Three former NYPD detectives and a professor are looking into what they say are serial killings being done by a group of people operating on the dark web. The deaths are of college age men that are made to look like drownings, and ruled as accidental drownings in the jurisdictions where the bodies were found, though many of the bodies appear to have litigator marks around the neck and contain a date rape drug. Odd symbols are left around the area where the bodies are put into the water. They say they have found this groups website but were unable to enter it.

These murders have been occurring since at least 1997. By 2008, they had identified 40 cases in 29 cities in 9 states. Some police departments have agreed to reopen a few cases. They will air a 6-part series on the Oxygen Channel premiering on January 19th at 7 PM. 

Sounds interesting!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-a-serial-killer-gang-murdering-young-men-across-the-us?fbclid=IwAR1OtBDPdblWgu0e2ugmDD8ayTPHfrQ8aL2cYFHZmlFrJc56j8F5gwuJdHk

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freetoroam

Something does not seem to make sense out of what they are saying

A few things:

 

Quote

Someone used his PayPal account for an $11.99 transaction two days after he vanished

In which way? It can happen that a paypal transaction may not come out of the account until 5 days later. 

More info about the actually transaction and what was purchased is needed here. (Probably will have to watch their new programne)

This began in 1997,  by then they knew about  DNA in forensics, can not understand how so many alleged murders over so many years and nothing? Even though most were found in water, if the kilkers had left smiley faces ( and they were not found at all the sites and some found miles away) then there would be tyre marks or footprints or even some DNA left there? See this bit of this link

Quote

Criminal profiler Pat Brown calls the serial killer theory "ludicrous",

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley_face_murder_theory

Remember because of Ted Bundy, the different states now communicate with each other, which they did not before, hence how Bundy was able to cross states. If there had been connections or similarities or real suspicion, it would have been flagged up by now.

These two retired cops i believe are missing their work too much and have fixated themselves on these unfortunate deaths. It may be possible a couple were murdered, but not by some serial killer gang over that many years.

Quote

But a team of retired detectives and a gang expert believe he’s one of about 100 victims of the Smiley-Face Killers, an alleged organized gang of serial killers that communicates on the dark web.

------

James fits the profile of the other suspected victims: smart, athletic, popular, college-age white men who went out drinking and never came home, they say. More recently, some alleged victims have been openly gay

Seriously?  And the connections between 9 different states and their alleged victims of  college age men who they say some may have been gay  over all these years works how?  

How would these men over a span of 20 years know these young college age men ( baring in mind the alleged gang would have aged ) and be able to organise their murders, how did they know when they would be going out drinking. James went out with work pals on both occations, did the retired detectives investigate each of them?

I would like to watch the programme, but why in six parts?

Quote

Hopefully this ^ will be in the first episode.

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skliss
On 1/18/2019 at 1:53 PM, susieice said:

Three former NYPD detectives and a professor are looking into what they say are serial killings being done by a group of people operating on the dark web. The deaths are of college age men that are made to look like drownings, and ruled as accidental drownings in the jurisdictions where the bodies were found, though many of the bodies appear to have litigator marks around the neck and contain a date rape drug. Odd symbols are left around the area where the bodies are put into the water. They say they have found this groups website but were unable to enter it.

These murders have been occurring since at least 1997. By 2008, they had identified 40 cases in 29 cities in 9 states. Some police departments have agreed to reopen a few cases. They will air a 6-part series on the Oxygen Channel premiering on January 19th at 7 PM. 

Sounds interesting!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-a-serial-killer-gang-murdering-young-men-across-the-us?fbclid=IwAR1OtBDPdblWgu0e2ugmDD8ayTPHfrQ8aL2cYFHZmlFrJc56j8F5gwuJdHk

Thanks for posting. I've heard about these murders before. Just set the dvr.

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Vincennes
On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:53 PM, susieice said:

These murders have been occurring since at least 1997. By 2008, they had identified 40 cases in 29 cities in 9 states. Some police departments have agreed to reopen a few cases. They will air a 6-part series on the Oxygen Channel premiering on January 19th at 7 PM. 

I just had a chance to watch this and remembered TWO similar disappearances from Columbus within the past couple of years.  These young men really fit the profile.  Both were grad students and both were out for drinks with friends and more or less vanished from the groups.  One was seen on camera going into an upscale club right in the heart of the city.  Thing is they could never find video on any of the cameras (which were modern and well positioned) of him leaving !  The other was in an old but extremely trendy part of Columbus called German Village.  I'm going to have to dig for their names but I thought it was amazing that they so totally fit the profiles.  

One is Brian Schaffer.  Here's an article   https://www.dispatch.com/article/20160401/NEWS/304019782

I can't find the name of the one from German Village but I believe the bar he was taken from was a gay bar and I have a vague memory they finally found his body in the Ohio River. 

Here's the other https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/03/man_missing_from_columbus_foun.html  Sorry my memory was German Village but perhaps I switched it with Short North which is another very trendy downtown area which is close to the river where his body was in fact found.  

Edited by Vincennes
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skliss
On 1/21/2019 at 7:40 AM, Vincennes said:

TWO similar disappearances from Columbus within the past couple of years.

I remember one of those. 

I watched the first one and read the OP article.  It was mentioned briefly on the show and more so in the article that there is actually more graffiti associated with these cases besides the smiley faces but they don't want to make that public. Did anyone else notice that there was more written above the smiley face in that odd blue color? Looked like # something. I couldn't make it out. 

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Vincennes
23 hours ago, skliss said:

I remember one of those. 

I watched the first one and read the OP article.  It was mentioned briefly on the show and more so in the article that there is actually more graffiti associated with these cases besides the smiley faces but they don't want to make that public. Did anyone else notice that there was more written above the smiley face in that odd blue color? Looked like # something. I couldn't make it out. 

You probably heard more about the one who disappeared from "The Ugly Tuna Salona."  How someone could disappear the way he did was just inexplicable.  The entrance was from inside a modern building with video coverage and the had security at the entrance/exit door(s).  I can't remember whether he was in med school or was through that and was doing his Residence but good student, good kid 

With both of these disappearances being so bizarre and exactly the profile of the victims and both within walking distance of the Ohio River, I'm convinced they are on to something.   That it is a serial killer(s).   

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susieice

Are these the two Columbus killings you're referring to Vincennes?

Joey Labute-

https://www.columbusalive.com/entertainment/20170222/what-happened-to-joey-labute

Brian Schafer-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Brian_Shaffer

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skliss
3 hours ago, susieice said:

Unfortunately, I can't get the Oxygen Channel. Here's a link of vids from Oxygen about the documentary.

https://www.oxygen.com/smiley-face-killers-the-hunt-for-justice/season-1/videos/smiley-face-killers-investigators-consult

I think you can watch episodes on that link a bit after they air. Looks like the 1st one is on there now.

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Vincennes
13 hours ago, susieice said:

Are these the two Columbus killings you're referring to Vincennes?

Joey Labute-

https://www.columbusalive.com/entertainment/20170222/what-happened-to-joey-labute

Brian Schafer-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Brian_Shaffer

Yes, these are the two I was thinking about.  At the time it was all over the news it never seemed plausible to me that either one of them had left for a "new" life.  That seemed like the same ridiculous reason the police run every time a disappearance leaves them totally stumped both of these kids seemed to be too upstanding and too close to their families for anything like that.  

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skliss

Still watching these.  I hurt for the mothers. I definitely think these ex-cops are onto something. Hard to believe that cities who have had 11 or 14 of such similar deaths of such similar victims aren't seeing the pattern.

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Robotic Jew
15 hours ago, skliss said:

Still watching these.  I hurt for the mothers. I definitely think these ex-cops are onto something. Hard to believe that cities who have had 11 or 14 of such similar deaths of such similar victims aren't seeing the pattern.

They're reaching. Hard.

I hurt for the families because these guys are just prolonging their misery by dredging up a nonsense theory and using deceptive means to do so to get screen time on the Oxygen network. I was pretty disgusted after watching the first episode.

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skliss
1 minute ago, Robotic Jew said:

They're reaching. Hard.

I hurt for the families because these guys are just prolonging their misery by dredging up a nonsense theory and using deceptive means to do so to get screen time on the Oxygen network. I was pretty disgusted after watching the first episode.

Watch some of the others. La  Crosse, Wisconsin, 11 deaths in a similar manner, new forensics, Boston, 10 similar deaths, Chicago, 14 similar deaths and they were able to get the case reopened with new evidence. I realize in the first one, Pittsburgh, there are only 3 similar deaths but adding up the totals it's tough to think they are all coincidences. The families are grateful that someone is giving a crap about their sons suspicious deaths.  As a parent I understand them wanting to do everything for their child that can be done no matter what the outcome.

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Robotic Jew
1 hour ago, skliss said:

Watch some of the others. La  Crosse, Wisconsin, 11 deaths in a similar manner, new forensics, Boston, 10 similar deaths, Chicago, 14 similar deaths and they were able to get the case reopened with new evidence. I realize in the first one, Pittsburgh, there are only 3 similar deaths but adding up the totals it's tough to think they are all coincidences. The families are grateful that someone is giving a crap about their sons suspicious deaths.  As a parent I understand them wanting to do everything for their child that can be done no matter what the outcome.

I believe that SOME of the deaths might be due to foul play. But, I don't believe they're part of some super secret cult of serial killers. Trying to connect them to the smiley faces and the fact that the people were intoxicated is connecting dots that are already connected, but inserting a connection that has no evidence. Accidental drownings happen all of the time, and many times it happens due to intoxication.

The insistence that some of these people must have been held for sometimes months before being put in the water based solely on decomposition is the most frustrating thing to me. In the 2 that I watched they kept focusing on this and ignoring the fact that they were both in cold weather climates during the winter when they went missing and not once did they even seem to consider or mention the fact that that would make a difference in the level of decomp. And they frame their arguments in support of it around the people who were responsible for removing the bodies from the water and not a certified medical expert.

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skliss

Actually, in the ones I watched they definitely addressed the decomp. For example in the last one the guy was supposedly in the water for 77 days yet had decomp of about 3 days. They got the weather and water temps for that time period and the water was at 39.2 degrees...not cold enough to preserve the body until it was found 77 days later. And being from Pittsburgh, I have great respect for Cyril Wecht and his expertise. What I like is that they do talk about and research the possibilities even if it might prove them wrong. Do I think in among these cases their are probably some that are accidents? Sure, but I think it's worth rechecking them just to see.

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Regi
2 hours ago, skliss said:

Actually, in the ones I watched they definitely addressed the decomp. For example in the last one the guy was supposedly in the water for 77 days yet had decomp of about 3 days. They got the weather and water temps for that time period and the water was at 39.2 degrees...not cold enough to preserve the body until it was found 77 days later. And being from Pittsburgh, I have great respect for Cyril Wecht and his expertise.

I don't recall that Wecht took issue with that aspect.

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Regi

Re: the Brian Weizen case, it appears to me that there are discrepancies within the info. as to how many guys went back to the hotel, and also, what time that was.

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skliss
1 hour ago, Regi said:

I don't recall that Wecht took issue with that aspect.

He was the one that said unless the guy was frozen and then thawed he couldn't have been dead for 77 days. Water temp proved frozen wasn't possible at that time to preserve the organs. Most of these guys have similar lack of either damage or decomp consistent with floating in water for days. I think the new forensics they are coming up with confirm their theories like the boot print on the forehead of one of them consistent with him being held down or ligature marks not mentioned in reports but seen in the recovery photos of another.

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skliss
44 minutes ago, Regi said:

Re: the Brian Weizen case, it appears to me that there are discrepancies within the info. as to how many guys went back to the hotel, and also, what time that was.

What discrepancies on time would make a difference? I don't recall them mentioning time or guys. What I think was relevant was how sick he was in comparison to his blood alcohol level. He was barely functional yet low alcohol level. How did he cross a 10 lane motorway with a barrier, that was a good distance from where he was seen vomiting and  passing out, then climb a chain link fence, cross another roadway and make his way down to the river? If I was his mother I would be all over that doorman who could have called him an ambulance instead of shooing him away.  

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Regi
33 minutes ago, skliss said:

He was the one that said unless the guy was frozen and then thawed he couldn't have been dead for 77 days. Water temp proved frozen wasn't possible at that time to preserve the organs.

I don't believe he'd disagree that the water temp was cold enough.

34 minutes ago, skliss said:

I don't recall them mentioning time or guys.

The mother said her son was with four other guys, while in police report, it's stated that the guy driving the car back to the hotel had let out two people (besides Brian) before he went to park the car. 

Re: time, it was stated that the group left the bar at closing and that 'Brian's' car arrived at the hotel at about 2 or 2:30AM, while the doorman reported it was about 1:20 AM when he'd first observed a "highly intoxicated" young man later identified (or presumed) was Brian.

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skliss
16 hours ago, Regi said:

had let out two people (besides Brian) before he went to park the car. 

He let them out so they could go up to the room while he and Brian parked the car where Brian threw up. Here's another thing...I would never in my life leave a sick, incoherent friend in a parking lot to his own fate. I would have made sure he safely got to the room and went to bed, on his side with a garbage can next to it. Anyway, when the car parker got to the room the other 2 were asleep. 4 guys, Brian, car driver, 2 sleeping guys.

I don't remember the specific times other than the friend who stayed behind arrived back around 4 am. No idea what difference it makes, unless you were looking at your watch you might mistake the time. I find it hard to believe their were 2 sick, vomiting guys in the same hotel parking lot on the same night. The doorman reports only one and the guys with Brian report leaving him vomiting in that very lot that very night. 98% chance the vomiting guy was Brian

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Imaginarynumber1
On 1/25/2019 at 9:11 AM, Vincennes said:

Yes, these are the two I was thinking about.  At the time it was all over the news it never seemed plausible to me that either one of them had left for a "new" life.  That seemed like the same ridiculous reason the police run every time a disappearance leaves them totally stumped both of these kids seemed to be too upstanding and too close to their families for anything like that.  

I will tell, from personal experience, that people die in Columbus every single day new in strange and interesting ways.

Hell, there was a pair of legs found in a recycling center back in '17 that were just recently identified. 

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Regi
1 hour ago, skliss said:

He let them out so they could go up to the room while he and Brian parked the car where Brian threw up. next to it. Anyway, when the car parker got to the room the other 2 were asleep. 4 guys, Brian, car driver, 2 sleeping guys.

It's that I thought the mother said he was with four guys, meaning four other guys.

1 hour ago, skliss said:

I don't remember the specific times other than the friend who stayed behind arrived back around 4 am. No idea what difference it makes, unless you were looking at your watch you might mistake the time.

1:20 AM (which, to me, is rather specific) was stated in a police report, and I'm merely pointing out that that (obviously) doesn't correlate w/Brian not having arrived until after 2.

3 hours ago, skliss said:

I find it hard to believe their were 2 sick, vomiting guys in the same hotel parking lot on the same night. The doorman reports only one and the guys with Brian report leaving him vomiting in that very lot that very night. 98% chance the vomiting guy was Brian

I said "presumed" because, to me, it's just the right word.

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skliss
4 hours ago, Regi said:

It's that I thought the mother said he was with four guys, meaning four other guys.

1:20 AM (which, to me, is rather specific) was stated in a police report, and I'm merely pointing out that that (obviously) doesn't correlate w/Brian not having arrived until after 2.

I said "presumed" because, to me, it's just the right word.

So I think what you're missing here is the guy that stayed behind. The guy they interviewed and took the walk to the river with and was a life long friend of Brian's was the fifth guy. He didn't return to the hotel with Brian and the other 3, he stayed out in the bars until 4 am which is when he returned to the hotel where he found that 3 of them were asleep and Brian was missing. That may be where you're thinking there was a time and guy discrepancy. 1 guy stayed at the bar. 4 got back to the hotel somewhere between 1:30 and 2:00. 2 went up to the room, Brian and driver went to park the car and Brian got sick. Brian was left in the parking lot and 3rd guy went to the room. 1st guy arrives back at hotel at 4 am and sees Brian is missing.  5 guys went out, 4 are safe, one is dead.

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Vincennes
On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:21 AM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

I will tell, from personal experience, that people die in Columbus every single day new in strange and interesting ways.

Hell, there was a pair of legs found in a recycling center back in '17 that were just recently identified. 

Well you need to call the CPD and all of the news channels and let them know you're opinion.  It will save them a lot of investigative time.  

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