Trump to make major announcement re shutdown

[+susieice]

Just watched the Naturalization Ceremony from the Oval Office. Don't know what else he's going to say later.

[lost_shaman]

The President's address just now makes sense. The ball is now in the Democrats court. Will they do what the President suggests. I doubt it. 

[+susieice]

Here's the big announcement.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-extend-dreamers-tps-protection-exchange-full-border/story?id=60489571

[Aquila King]

This wasn't an actual proposal. It was an attempt to shift public opinion.

Most Americans blame him for the shutdown, and by doing this he hopes to shift the blame to democrats. That's all it is.

[Aquila King]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/americans-blame-trump-and-gop-much-more-than-democrats-for-shutdown-post-abc-poll-finds/2019/01/12/9c89aff2-16a9-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.f2f13c2f791a

[lost_shaman]

1 minute ago, Aquila King said:

This wasn't an actual proposal. It was an attempt to shift public opinion.

Most Americans blame him for the shutdown, and by doing this he hopes to shift the blame to democrats. That's all it is.

Say's a "proud social Democrat". The President's and all branches of Government swear an Oath to protect the Constitution and the American People, not pander to Central Americans!

[Aquila King]

Just now, lost_shaman said:

Say's a "proud social Democrat". The President's and all branches of Government swear an Oath to protect the Constitution and the American People, not pander to Central Americans!

Just stating the facts.

[lost_shaman]

2 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Just stating the facts.

I stated Facts. You stated Democrat Propaganda. 

Does our Government take an Oath the Protect American Citizens and follow American Laws or do they get to choose to support the citizens of foreign Nations?

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, lost_shaman said:

I stated Facts. You stated Democrat Propaganda. 

Does our Government take an Oath the Protect American Citizens and follow American Laws or do they get to choose to support the citizens of foreign Nations?

What's that have to do with this government shutdown?  Wall or no wall, Central Americans won't benefit.  They will still line up at our ports of entry and request asylum or go into the desert and throw a ladder over it.

I would go so far as to say those who support the wall are un-American because they want to squander our resources on vanity and thus are no friend to our country or our Constitution.

[Aquila King]

Just now, lost_shaman said:

I stated Facts. You stated Democrat Propaganda. 

Does our Government take an Oath the Protect American Citizens and follow American Laws or do they get to choose to support the citizens of foreign Nations?

Since there is no threat from people coming from the southern border, there isn't really anything to 'protect' us from.

If the US government actually cared about protecting US citizens then it would being doing something to fix the Flint water crisis, or guarantee healthcare coverage for every American so tens of thousands don't die every year due to lack of coverage, or actually take climate science seriously for once and try to protect us as much as we can from that.

But no, let's all just focus on the brown people coming from down under cause they're all obviously evil druggies and thugs, rapists and criminals.  Friggin idiot.

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

We need to beef up checkpoints but it won’t do any good to focus only on them.  Focusing only on checkpoints will create the whack-a-mole effect.  Drugs and illegals will find another place to cross.  The border is like a garden hose filled with holes.  Those holes need to be patched before the flow can resume.  A wall system will do that.  To continue the analogy, that flow then goes through the checkpoints, then that flow can be clamped down on and controlled.

Ok, good enough analogy.  If the end of the hose is wide open, even if there are small holes  in the hose, most of the water will flow out the end.  That is what many of the border security experts are saying.  Most of the traffic comes through by rail, truck, boat, and private vehicles at check points.  Border patrol thinks they inspect about 8% of vehicles.  Coast Guard interdicts 20% of drugs they get tips on because they don't have equipment or manpower.  So, put a nozzle on the end of the hose first and then look for the smaller leaks.  Build and enforce your border where people are getting across, steadily improve surveillance.   Walls, fences, barriers, what ever you call them are effective in critical areas.  

So does it not make sense to plug the big leak first then go after the smaller ones?  Tell you what, while the checkpoints at the end of the hose are open, that is where the drugs will flow.  You won't find much crossing the border in hiker's backpacks as long as Walter White can drive the family station wagon through a checkpoint with 500 pounds of drugs hidden in the kids luggage. 

[Tatetopa]

21 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Say's a "proud social Democrat". The President's and all branches of Government swear an Oath to protect the Constitution and the American People, not pander to Central Americans!

Or right wing talk show hosts.

[lost_shaman]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

What's that have to do with this government shutdown?  Wall or no wall, Central Americans won't benefit.  They will still line up at our ports of entry and request asylum or go into the desert and throw a ladder over it.

I would go so far as to say those who support the wall are un-American because they want to squander our resources on vanity and thus are no friend to our country or our Constitution.

I would call your position out as delusional. First they have no right to enter the U.S.. illegally. They can apply for asylum at the U.S. Embassy's in their home countries. Second securing our Border is not a "squander" of our resources. It is protecting U.S. Citizens from Drugs, Crime, and an undue burden on U.S. Taxpayers. It is one of the Major functions the Federal Government is entrusted to do! 

[Tatetopa]

14 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Does our Government take an Oath the Protect American Citizens and follow American Laws or do they get to choose to support the citizens of foreign Nations?

You are right Shaman, and for some, the greatest expression of patriotism and Constitutional duty would be to impeach the President now.   James Matis swore an oath and spent his life defending the constitution and people of the United States.  He is about as conservative and honorable as they come.  Did you see him today standing with President Trump? Don't think so.  It is not just social democrats that may have a different idea of the way America should be going. 

[Gromdor]

Here's what I find silly.  A lot of what Trump said should be done anyways- with or without a wall.  How is it a concession to do add stuff that is common sense.  We should be adding more judges to fix the backlog, we should do things to stop child abuse and trafficking, we should add more border agents, we should fix DACA and TPS, etc.   Why is he tying all this to his wall?

[lost_shaman]

10 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Since there is no threat from people coming from the southern border, there isn't really anything to 'protect' us from.

Again I think your take on this is delusional. The Cartels are active in Human smuggling and Drug smuggling that harms both the Illeagal Aliens and American citizens!

 

[Aquila King]

Just now, lost_shaman said:

Again I think your take on this is delusional. The Cartels are active in Human smuggling and Drug smuggling that harms both the Illeagal Aliens and American citizens!

Last I checked the only 'delusional' people are those who ignore objective statistics and data in favor of whatever bulls**t narrative they wanna believe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.727249e00f08

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

I would call your position out as delusional. First they have no right to enter the U.S.. illegally. They can apply for asylum at the U.S. Embassy's in their home countries. Second securing our Border is not a "squander" of our resources. It is protecting U.S. Citizens from Drugs, Crime, and an undue burden on U.S. Taxpayers. It is one of the Major functions the Federal Government is entrusted to do! 

Nope they can't.  You have to be physically present on US soil to apply.  Pretty sure I mentioned this about 5 times on this forum.  In fact one of the "concessions" in Trump's speech was to allow a means for them to apply from their own country.  I suppose I should put a link again for it: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-obtain-protection-us-embassy-consulate.html

Securing our borders is indeed not squandering our resources.  A wall doesn't secure it though- especially since the problem isn't even coming from where Trump wants to put the wall. 

[lost_shaman]

3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Why is he tying all this to his wall?

Because we need a Wall in certain places and Walls work. It will reduce the smuggling and reduce the number of Border Agents needed to secure the Border. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

19 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

Since there is no threat from people coming from the southern border, there isn't really anything to 'protect' us from.

If the US government actually cared about protecting US citizens then it would being doing something to fix the Flint water crisis, or guarantee healthcare coverage for every American so tens of thousands don't die every year due to lack of coverage, or actually take climate science seriously for once and try to protect us as much as we can from that.

But no, let's all just focus on the brown people coming from down under cause they're all obviously evil druggies and thugs, rapists and criminals.  Friggin idiot.

Man, all you racists see is skin COLOR.  

FYI, this country of "racists" had no problem in giving that country of  "brown people", Mexico, over $5 billion in foreign aid. Imagine that!?

[lost_shaman]

I have TWO adopted Daughters that were both Sexually molested by my youngest Daughters biological Father as children because the Court ruled that He had a right to see them. He is from Guatemala! So you have no clue about what you are talking about I don't care how many BS charts you post to say otherwise!!!

[skliss]

I saw reporter interviewing people walking along in the new caravan of thousands heading our way. The guy seemed to be a leader of sorts and spoke English. When the reporter asked him if all these people knew there were thousands already waiting to be processed and it could be a long wait the reply was "Oh not for these people they plan to sneak across." The reporter was taken aback a bit and said "They plan to what....sneak across?" And the spokesman again said "Oh yes, you know sneak, they plan to sneak across. Some have families there, they'll be okay." 

So not only are they sneaking over with no intention of claiming asylum,  their illegal relatives are complicit in helping them do it.

[skliss]

7 minutes ago, lost_shaman said:

Because we need a Wall in certain places and Walls work. It will reduce the smuggling and reduce the number of Border Agents needed to secure the Border. 

Places where they have implemented walls have shown reductions in illegal crossings in the 90% 's.

[lost_shaman]

7 minutes ago, skliss said:

their illegal relatives are complicit in helping them do it.

And so is the Democratic Party!

 

[F3SS]

Democrats, this is your last chance to act repsonsibly or he's going to enact a state of emergency and show that you don't care about Americans or the poor little dreamers.