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susieice

Trump to make major announcement re shutdown

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Setton
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

And when did that happen?

2016 - more people voted for the candidate not promising a wall. 

2018 - more people voted for representatives and senators not promising a wall. 

Last week - House votes for funding not including a wall. 

Last week - only 50 senators vote for funding Bill including a wall, 54 vote for Bill not including a wall. 

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You’re the one coming across as the expert.  There is no substitute for a wall.  A wall is the base of any defense.  Then you add on to it.

No expert on walls, just telling you what your fellow countrymen voted for. You seem confused about the whole 'will of the people' thing. 

Seems increasingly the political extremes of society are only for democracy when people vote their way. 

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RoofGardener

I'd post a list of all the countries that have built walls - some of them sponsored by the USA - but I can't be arsed. You've read it before, and some of you STILL don't get it !

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skliss
1 hour ago, Setton said:

You mean the people who the majority of whom voted for candidates not promising a wall? 

Not in the Senate. Doesn't matter anyway because obviously there are millions of people in this country who do want a wall and who have been vocal about it. If you think that was the only issue on people's minds when they voted then again, you have no idea what goes on here.

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Setton
17 minutes ago, skliss said:

Not in the Senate.

No, but across the total of your representatives, it is true. 

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Doesn't matter anyway because obviously there are millions of people in this country who do want a wall and who have been vocal about it.

And millions more who don't. 

Do the minority get to dictate now? 

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If you think that was the only issue on people's minds when they voted then again, you have no idea what goes on here.

As is true for every election. Either way, the majority of Americans are clearly not that keen on having a wall. 

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RavenHawk
23 hours ago, Setton said:

2016 - more people voted for the candidate not promising a wall.

No, that is incorrect. If Hilary had run on ‘no wall’, she would have lost on that alone.  In fact, she is on record for stating the *need* for a wall.

 

2018 - more people voted for representatives and senators not promising a wall. 

That had nothing to do with the wall.  If you talk to many Prog pundits, the issue for the Left was ACA.  But in reality, you had an exodus of Rino, Never-Trumpers; They were getting the Hell out of Dodge.  They were Representatives that didn’t represent their constituents very well.  When that happens, most people will give the other side a try.  But this culling of the GOP is a good thing and sets the stage to retake the House in two years.  The people are going to see the far Left for what they are and many will only have one term.

 

Last week - House votes for funding not including a wall. 

Because they don’t want to give Trump a win.  Why?  Because if he is able to build the wall, he will be a lock for reelection.  Any funding for border security which does not include a wall is a waste of money.  Yes, we need more of everything but without a wall, anything spent is a waste.  But Progs love to waste money anyway.  If Progs were not afraid of Trump and knew a wall would be ineffective, they’d let him have his play thing.

 

Last week - only 50 senators vote for funding Bill including a wall, 54 vote for Bill not including a wall. 

The Senate passed a bill for a wall and Daca and sent it to the House.

 

No expert on walls, just telling you what your fellow countrymen voted for.

And neither are you an expert on what my fellow countrymen voted for.

 

You seem confused about the whole 'will of the people' thing. 

I’m not the one confused.  Polls indicate most people want border security.  Again, border security without a wall is meaningless.  But since you are not an expert on walls, you don’t understand that.  This just tells me that most people don’t understand the full functionality of a wall and the MSM have been very effective at misleading the public.

 

Seems increasingly the political extremes of society are only for democracy when people vote their way. 

Wanting the wall is not an extreme and we are not a democracy (at least it is restricted from being a pure democracy).  We are a nation of laws.  If I were to try to take your life, would you not act defensively?  Or would you just let me take it?  If I would to try to take your liberty, would you not act defensively?  If I were to try to take your property (pursuit of happiness) would you not act defensively?  Man’s desire for freedom is not an extreme.  Uncontrolled, illegal mass migration threatens these things.  Our Founding Fathers specifically put these three above all others.  The President is duty bound to defend these.

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Farmer77

Trump claimed women were gagged with tape. Then Border Patrol tried to find some evidence.

 

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It’s become a staple of President Donald Trump’s riffs on the horrors of the US-Mexico border, something he knows so well that he doesn’t even need it scripted on a teleprompter: Human traffickers gag women with tape so they can’t breathe before packing them into vans and driving them across the border illegally.

But two weeks after Trump had started talking about tape-gagged women — when a January 17 Washington Post article had questioned the claim — a top Border Patrol official had to email agents to ask if they had “any information” that the claim was actually true.

The email, shown to Vox by a source within Border Patrol, was sent as a “request for information” by an assistant Border Patrol chief, apparently on behalf of the office of Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan (referred to internally as “C-1”). It asked agents to reply within less than two hours with “any information (in any format)” regarding claims of tape-gagged women — and even linked to the Post article “for further info.”

 

FACEPALM-T-shirtDesign-by-JBaz.jpg

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Setton
18 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Again, border security without a wall is meaningles

In your opinion. 

The rest is just strawmen and excuses trying not to admit you're in the minority. 

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RavenHawk
2 minutes ago, Setton said:

In your opinion. 

The rest is just strawmen and excuses trying not to admit you're in the minority. 

 

You confuse opinion with fact.  What I state is fact.  It has always been fact and it will always be fact.  It doesn’t matter if I might be in the minority or not, it is still fact!

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Setton
3 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

You confuse opinion with fact.  What I state is fact.  It has always been fact and it will always be fact.  It doesn’t matter if I might be in the minority or not, it is still fact!

And yet plenty of nations today and throughout history manage without one... 

Curious. 

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, Setton said:

And yet plenty of nations today and throughout history manage without one... 

Curious. 

 

Nations have always had borders.  For the most part they have respected those borders, but more and more nations are building walls to assure their borders are respected.

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Setton
19 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

 

Nations have always had borders.  For the most part they have respected those borders, 

Without walls too. 

Do you know, it's almost like diplomacy, cooperation and planning are more effective than a massive overcompensation sorry, wall. 

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and then
On 1/21/2019 at 11:36 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Absolutely.  Both or it doesn't work. They'll just go for the weakest link

We need minefields.  The LEGAL kind that would target employers and corporations that hire non-citizens.  Penalties that will literally crush businesses that use them.  In addition, we need mandatory 25-year sentences for any non-citizen caught voting in a state or federal election.  Finally, absolute zero tolerance for housing, feeding or educating non-citizens.  Problem solved, no barrier needed.  While we're at it we should bring the wrath of the law down on those in this country that make the cartels rich.  If there is no will to do any of this then America is done.  Hey, it was nice while there were adults around to run things.  

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Farmer77
Just now, and then said:

We need minefields.  The LEGAL kind that would target employers and corporations that hire non-citizens. 

Undocumented Worker Says Trump Resort Shielded Her From Secret Service

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A former employee of the Trump National Golf Club in New Jersey said that her name was removed from a list of workers to be vetted by the Secret Service after she reminded management that she was unlawfully in the United States, the latest worker to assert that supervisors at the elite resort were aware that some members of their work force were undocumented.

As Trump demanded a border wall, his company was firing undocumented workers

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The sudden firings - which were previously unreported - follow last year's revelations of undocumented labour at a Trump club in New Jersey, where employees were subsequently dismissed. The firings show Trump's business was relying on undocumented workers even as the president demanded a border wall to keep out such immigrants.

 

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

This is actually under investigation by the House right now along with other security clearances seemingly granted without passing vetting: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/23/politics/house-oversight-committee-investigation-security-clearances/index.html

It's pretty mind boggling that unvetted illegal aliens had secret security level access to Trump and his room at Bedminster.  Even more so that the Trump organization enabled that to happen.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

This is actually under investigation by the House right now along with other security clearances seemingly granted without passing vetting: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/23/politics/house-oversight-committee-investigation-security-clearances/index.html

This from your link is simply amazing and terrifying:

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Cummings' letter also states that the investigation will look into why the administration "is currently defying federal law by failing to provide to Congress information about its security clearance process required by the SECRET Act."

 

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's pretty mind boggling that unvetted illegal aliens had secret security level access to Trump and his room at Bedminster.  Even more so that the Trump organization enabled that to happen.

It speaks volumes towards the veracity of their panicked "fear" of illegal immigrants.

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RavenHawk
16 minutes ago, Setton said:

Without walls too.

Until neighbors stop respecting borders.  Mexico is not respecting our borders.

 

Do you know, it's almost like diplomacy, cooperation and planning are more effective than a massive overcompensation sorry, wall. 

The best diplomacy is a nice high wall.  You may not but I’m sure many in your neighborhood have walls or fences around their property??  You ever wonder why?  Again, why are more and more nations erecting walls if they don’t work.  Until there is some alternative, there will be no substitute.

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

You ever wonder why?

Personally its so I can do weird **** in my yard while naked without witnesses

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RavenHawk
8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Personally its so I can do weird **** in my yard while naked without witnesses

In other words, to insure others respect your privacy.

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

In other words, to insure others respect your privacy.

LOL well full confession I was just joking, I like to live dangerously, i am wall less AND im within a couple of hundred miles of the border :o

In all honesty there are some valid reasons to place barriers in strategic location. The clowncar full of chuckleheads running around screaming about it being an emergency (while employing illegal aliens themselves) however really highlight how much it isnt a national emergency....well them and facts and statistics and whatnot.

 

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RavenHawk
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

In all honesty there are some valid reasons to place barriers in strategic location. The clowncar full of chuckleheads running around screaming about it being an emergency (while employing illegal aliens themselves) however really highlight how much it isnt a national emergency....well them and facts and statistics and whatnot.

 

You’re making excuses.  Whether or not Trump has or does hire illegals is meaningless.  The fact is that it is available to anyone and in order to keep a leg up on the competition, you use what is available.  To do otherwise is stupidity.  Even our Founding Fathers had slaves but in time they freed them.  When the border is closed to illegals, even Trump will abide by that.  I’m not a fan of calling it a crisis, but it is something that is required and the longer it remains unfulfilled, the more of a chance it will become a crisis.  Why wait until then?  Is it worth the lives of Americans not to deal with it now?  You don’t like Trump, fine but why take that out on the Americans that are suffering from open borders?

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Tatetopa
58 minutes ago, and then said:

We need minefields.  The LEGAL kind that would target employers and corporations that hire non-citizens.  Penalties that will literally crush businesses that use them.  In addition, we need mandatory 25-year sentences for any non-citizen caught voting in a state or federal election.  Finally, absolute zero tolerance for housing, feeding or educating non-citizens.  Problem solved, no barrier needed.  While we're at it we should bring the wrath of the law down on those in this country that make the cartels rich. 

Well yes.  As long as there is demand, a supply will be found.  Make it unprofitable to hire non-documented workers,  and the flow will diminish.  At the same time streamline ports of entry.  Getting workers for agricultural, manufacturing, and hospitality needs is good for the economy.  Make it possible to hire legally make it possible to apply and get a speedy response for a work permit visa.   That would take care of a lot of the labor migration.

A secure border is a desirable thing.  We will still need some barriers and surveillance to cut the flow of drugs, contraband,  and entry  in areas between check points.

 

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Farmer77
Just now, RavenHawk said:

You’re making excuses.  Whether or not Trump has or does hire illegals is meaningless. The fact is that it is available to anyone and in order to keep a leg up on the competition, you use what is available.  To do otherwise is stupidity. 

Whether a man is a man of character who speaks things he believes in absolutely has meaning. Fool me once shame on you fool you twice shame on me and all of that.

4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

When the border is closed to illegals, even Trump will abide by that.  I’m not a fan of calling it a crisis, but it is something that is required and the longer it remains unfulfilled, the more of a chance it will become a crisis.  Why wait until then?  Is it worth the lives of Americans not to deal with it now?  You don’t like Trump, fine but why take that out on the Americans that are suffering from open borders?

Man do you realize what you're typing here? Lets take your argument and apply it to, well just about any issue, but lets go with gun control. What youre saying is the criminal will stop being a criminal when new laws are put in place to stop if from happening. Sound familiar? How are "gun free zones" working out? All the laws in the world wont stop a criminal from doing what they want is also a familiar NRA refrain.

 

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Setton
57 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Until neighbors stop respecting borders.  Mexico is not respecting our borders.

So... diplomacy. 

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The best diplomacy is a nice high wall. 

Ah, American diplomacy. Good to know its still going. 

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You may not but I’m sure many in your neighborhood have walls or fences around their property?? 

Not many at all actually. The ones that do are about 3 ft high and are therefore a good analogy for Trump's proposal. 

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You ever wonder why?  Again, why are more and more nations erecting walls if they don’t work.  

Paranoia. And exploiting a paranoid voter base. 

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RavenHawk
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Whether a man is a man of character who speaks things he believes in absolutely has meaning. Fool me once shame on you fool you twice shame on me and all of that.

 

So you conveniently leave off the reference to the Founding Fathers owning slaves.  Did you know that Jefferson was so opposed to slavery, that he originally included freeing the slaves in an early draft of the Declaration of Independence?  And while he still owned slaves.  Do you not consider Jefferson as a Man of character?

 

Man do you realize what you're typing here? Lets take your argument and apply it to, well just about any issue, but lets go with gun control. What youre saying is the criminal will stop being a criminal when new laws are put in place to stop if from happening. Sound familiar? How are "gun free zones" working out? All the laws in the world wont stop a criminal from doing what they want is also a familiar NRA refrain.

You have a poor example.  Laws don’t stop criminals.  But a strong fence or wall certainly cuts that down to a trickle.  And gives Law Enforcement time to respond.  “Gun free zones” are like a border with no walls.  If we close the border, not just say that there is a *Need* to, we’ll save American lives.

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RavenHawk
22 minutes ago, Setton said:

So... diplomacy.

That’s ironic.  You’d be the reason your neighbor would want a wall.

 

Ah, American diplomacy. Good to know its still going. 

The Brits used to know what it was.  No different than from British gunboat diplomacy.

 

Not many at all actually. The ones that do are about 3 ft high and are therefore a good analogy for Trump's proposal. 

Aren’t we privileged.  Well, if you live in London, I dare you to just walk into your Mayor’s backyard.  You can hop over his 3’ fence.

 

Paranoia. And exploiting a paranoid voter base. 

If your house is on fire, don’t you think you’ll be a little paranoid?  Would you try to get help to put it out or just say that you’re being paranoid and let it burn down?

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