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Earl.Of.Trumps

Venezuelan Revolt on the Horizon?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 5/12/2019 at 10:50 AM, RoofGardener said:

Hmmm.. this thread started on the 21st January, with the title "Venezuelan revolt on the horizon". 

 

I'ts now the 12th May. Almost 4 months later. 

That horizon seems to be receding ? 

Yup. I'm the OP and I agree with you. Opportunity is receding and I think that those who stay in Venezuela now are going to have a rough go of it forever.

I now view people who go for socialism/communism much like the moth that goes for the bright light that kills it.  curious. Almost makes me think more of determinism.

 

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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yup. I'm the OP and I agree with you. Opportunity is receding and I think that those who stay in Venezuela now are going to have a rough go of it forever.

I now view people who go for socialism/communism much like the moth that goes for the bright light that kills it.  curious. Almost makes me think more of determinism.

 

Well, the country is in an economic tailspin. Inflation was estimated at over 13,000% in 2018. Unemployment is up to over 30%, and the debt-to-GDP ratio is over 160%. Venezuala has defaulted on many of its international loans over the last 12 months. SOMETHING has got to break. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps

@RoofGardener - you would think 'something has to break'... but I've been saying for years that Cuba will fold any day now... and North Korea will fold any day now!!  

Been saying that for 25 years lol   :(

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RoofGardener
6 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

@RoofGardener - you would think 'something has to break'... but I've been saying for years that Cuba will fold any day now... and North Korea will fold any day now!!  

Been saying that for 25 years lol   :(

LOL... fair point EoT.. fair point :D 

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Phaeton80
On 2-5-2019 at 10:14 AM, Vlad the Mighty said:

I tell you what! Why doesn't the US mind its own effing busienss! Anyone who tries the hearts-and-violins argument that the US has a Moral Obligation to save these poor people from the Nightmare of Socialism, then you deserve Mike Pompeo and John Bolton ruling you for being so ludicruously naive, and anyone who tries to insist that Venezuela presents a Clear and Present Danger to the United States,I'll just laugh in your face. 


Hear hear. :tu:

The US is behaving like an evil empire, a superman turned bad. All made possible by the sheer ignorance, apathy and misguided US population; happily greenlighting foreign intervention after foreign 'intervention' (resulting in hundreds if not millions of civilian deaths, suffering on a massive scale).. as long as they themselves arent impacted in any shape, way or form.

Its time for that to change.

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Tatetopa

Strange turn of events.  A duly elected leader defeats a coup by the deep state and can not be indicted for obstruction or collusion or election meddling  because there was no crime committed.    Now he is free to investigate the traitors that accused him and deal with them as US advocates advise.  Execution..  Deja vu all over again. 

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Space Commander Travis
13 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Strange turn of events.  A duly elected leader defeats a coup by the deep state and can not be indicted for obstruction or collusion or election meddling  because there was no crime committed.    Now he is free to investigate the traitors that accused him and deal with them as US advocates advise.  Execution..  Deja vu all over again. 

Execution? Excellent, so The Mighty Donald has decided to follow my recommendation?

Oh, you didn't mean him?

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Oh, you didn't mean him?

Well, our leader does seem to admire and perhaps model his behavior on the more absolute heads of state in the world.  Perhaps he will find there is something to learn from Maduro too.

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Princess Serenity

Apparently MADuro is paranoid~. 

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Space Commander Travis
7 hours ago, Princess Serenity said:

Apparently MADuro is paranoid~. 

and Guadio or however you spell his name is as deluded as, for example, America's Donald Trump. In fact the symptoms, primarily manifested in a delusion that the people all adore you and that all you have to do is raise your little finger and everyone will do as you command, are remarkably similar. He is, arguably, more photogenic on Instasnap or whatever it's called though. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
13 hours ago, Princess Serenity said:

Apparently MADuro is paranoid~. 

 

Words of caution, Princess... "a White House Security Advisor".   'Nuff said?    I have learned over the years, take what *any* Washingtonian says with a grain of salt

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Earl.Of.Trumps
5 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

and Guadio or however you spell his name is as deluded as, for example, America's Donald Trump. In fact the symptoms, primarily manifested in a delusion that the people all adore you and that all you have to do is raise your little finger and everyone will do as you command, are remarkably similar. He is, arguably, more photogenic on Instasnap or whatever it's called though. 

Let's put Guaido aside for the moment.  IMO and in the opinion of the 60+ countries that do not recognize Maduro as leader, Maduro tainted the elections badly. If he did as EU said - allow for new elections, then this would not be such an issue. 

Now, Guaido has said that if Maduro is ousted, then he - as leader - will call immediately for new elections. 

That's the way to do it. If they do, I *think* Guaido would be elected but it is not so important. Getting Maduro OUT is important.

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Sir Smoke aLot

Where is Guaido? He allegedly had so much support from the people... How did his support vanish so fast i wonder. When Chavez was evicted from presidential palace people returned him.

Guaido did not even manage to get close to the palace. Last thing i hear is that he will not give up, after 3rd try for armed coup.

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Space Commander Travis

Yes, nearly three weeks since the last update, and what's happened to the deep humanitarian concern of the Bolton - I mean Trump administration for the suffering people of Venzuela? :cry: Richard Branson, where are you?! 

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DarkHunter

Seems Russia is starting to question if Maduro is going to be staying in power much longer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/in-a-blow-to-maduro-russia-withdraws-key-defense-support-to-venezuela-11559486826

Rostec, a Russian defense contractor that has been training and advising Venezuelan military units have almost completely pulled out, going from about a 1,000 members present to about a dozen.  Basically Venezuela cant pay Russia anymore so Russia is leaving and deals that were originally agreed to, like building a Kalashnikov factory, are probably not going to happen.

Also I heard a high ranking airforce general defected about a week or so ago.

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Gromdor
8 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Seems Russia is starting to question if Maduro is going to be staying in power much longer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/in-a-blow-to-maduro-russia-withdraws-key-defense-support-to-venezuela-11559486826

Rostec, a Russian defense contractor that has been training and advising Venezuelan military units have almost completely pulled out, going from about a 1,000 members present to about a dozen.  Basically Venezuela cant pay Russia anymore so Russia is leaving and deals that were originally agreed to, like building a Kalashnikov factory, are probably not going to happen.

Also I heard a high ranking airforce general defected about a week or so ago.

You know, this can also be taken as the Russians no longer thing that Maduro is in trouble...

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DarkHunter
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

You know, this can also be taken as the Russians no longer thing that Maduro is in trouble...

The article doesnt seem to suggest that with stuff like

"A person close to the Russian government said Rostec weighed the political benefits of supporting Mr. Maduro against the regime’s growing economic liabilities, forcing the company to make a strategic decision on ties with Caracas.

“They believe the fight is being lost,” said the person."

"“Since the Venezuelans aren’t paying, why should Rostec stay there and foot the bill on its own,” the person said. The person added that, for months now, Venezuela hasn’t been paying for services like the servicing of military hardware."

The article does say that Rostec has said the allegations of Venezuela not paying are not true.

Given that there are now long lines just for gasoline, heard some of these lines being 15 km long, chronic power outages throughout the country, and that hospitals in Venezuela now have practically no medical supplies and people are dieing from stuff that should be simple to stop suggest that Maduro is still in trouble.

Also if Maduro wasnt in trouble why would his government have entered talks with the opposition in Oslo to attempt to end the crisis, the talks fell apart but the mere fact they entered them seems to suggest Maduro isnt as secure as he once was.

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Gromdor
2 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

The article doesnt seem to suggest that with stuff like

"A person close to the Russian government said Rostec weighed the political benefits of supporting Mr. Maduro against the regime’s growing economic liabilities, forcing the company to make a strategic decision on ties with Caracas.

“They believe the fight is being lost,” said the person."

"“Since the Venezuelans aren’t paying, why should Rostec stay there and foot the bill on its own,” the person said. The person added that, for months now, Venezuela hasn’t been paying for services like the servicing of military hardware."

The article does say that Rostec has said the allegations of Venezuela not paying are not true.

Given that there are now long lines just for gasoline, heard some of these lines being 15 km long, chronic power outages throughout the country, and that hospitals in Venezuela now have practically no medical supplies and people are dieing from stuff that should be simple to stop suggest that Maduro is still in trouble.

Also if Maduro wasnt in trouble why would his government have entered talks with the opposition in Oslo to attempt to end the crisis, the talks fell apart but the mere fact they entered them seems to suggest Maduro isnt as secure as he once was.

Quite possible.  I'm just merely trying to point out the dangers of drawing conclusions based on what limited information we receive.  The article you linked seems to be a series of just that- a bunch of conclusions based around a couple of facts.

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Space Commander Travis
11 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

Seems Russia is starting to question if Maduro is going to be staying in power much longer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/in-a-blow-to-maduro-russia-withdraws-key-defense-support-to-venezuela-11559486826

Rostec, a Russian defense contractor that has been training and advising Venezuelan military units have almost completely pulled out, going from about a 1,000 members present to about a dozen.  Basically Venezuela cant pay Russia anymore so Russia is leaving and deals that were originally agreed to, like building a Kalashnikov factory, are probably not going to happen.

Also I heard a high ranking airforce general defected about a week or so ago.

possibly they know that the bluster from Florida (it was hardly even from Washington, the farcical little attempt at instigating a coup was almost entirely driven by the exiles in Florida) has run its course

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Space Commander Travis

Well, it seems like even Pompeous the Magnificent has finally admitted that their project doesn't seem to have been met with quite as much success as might have been hoped. He's quoted in the Washington Post, as saying in private that 

Quote

 

“We were trying to support various religious institutions so that the opposition would unite,” Pompeo remarked, going on to explain that “they [the opposition] remain divided on how to confront the Maduro regime.”

“Our dilemma, which is to keep the (Venezuelan) opposition together, has turned out to be tremendously difficult.

“At the moment when Maduro leaves, everyone will raise their hands and say: ‘Choose me, I’m the next president of Venezuela.'” In excess of 40 different Venezuelan opposition politicians have come forward expressing their view that as Guaido is but a transitional figure, that they ought to be ‘selected’ by the US to win an actual (i.e. rigged) election. 

 

So isn't it fortunate that the Eye Ranians have been so obliging by giving President Bolton and second in command Pompeous the Mighty an opportunity to divert their attention to somewhere else entirely and forget all about Venezuela and pretend it never happened! Which it didn't, but pretend they never tried to make it happen! :cat: 

 

Edited by Dumbledore the Awesome

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Sir Smoke aLot
On 6/3/2019 at 6:30 PM, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

what's happened to the deep humanitarian concern of the Bolton - I mean Trump administration for the suffering people of Venzuela?

The same thing which happened to his announcement of celebrating in Tehran with MEK :D

Where is Guaido? His current silence is more striking than his transformation from peaceful democrat into armed coup proponent and leader.

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Golden Duck
9 hours ago, Dumbledore the Awesome said:

Well, it seems like even Pompeous the Magnificent has finally admitted that their project doesn't seem to have been met with quite as much success as might have been hoped. He's quoted in the Washington Post, as saying in private that 

So isn't it fortunate that the Eye Ranians have been so obliging by giving President Bolton and second in command Pompeous the Mighty an opportunity to divert their attention to somewhere else entirely and forget all about Venezuela and pretend it never happened! Which it didn't, but pretend they never tried to make it happen! :cat: 

 

It still serves a purpose for the 2020 election; ie, Dems = Maduro

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