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Earl.Of.Trumps

Venezuelan Revolt on the Horizon?

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Earl.Of.Trumps

Former bus drive and now President of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro leashes out at America for all of his problems and his country's.   link

Maduro has blamed the chaos on the US, saying Venezuela has fallen "victim of a US conspiracy."

'Maduro! I'm hungry!': CNN's undercover report from Venezuela

He says the US orchestrated a coup to remove him from office, telling CNN Turk he's reached out to President Donald Trump but hasn't received a response because "I think he's overwhelmed with his domestic problem and, I believe, I think he despises us."

"He despises all of America and the Caribbean. I think he despised the world," he told the Turkish network. "This is the reason for the coup. They don't want us to get better. They sabotage us and try to destroy the economic system."

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So there ya go. The US did it all to him. :angry:

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spartan max2
5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Former bus drive and now President of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro leashes out at America for all of his problems and his country's.   link

Maduro has blamed the chaos on the US, saying Venezuela has fallen "victim of a US conspiracy."

'Maduro! I'm hungry!': CNN's undercover report from Venezuela

He says the US orchestrated a coup to remove him from office, telling CNN Turk he's reached out to President Donald Trump but hasn't received a response because "I think he's overwhelmed with his domestic problem and, I believe, I think he despises us."

"He despises all of America and the Caribbean. I think he despised the world," he told the Turkish network. "This is the reason for the coup. They don't want us to get better. They sabotage us and try to destroy the economic system."

-------------------------------------

So there ya go. The US did it all to him. :angry:

If it wasn't for the U.S I wouldn't have to have rigged elections :rolleyes:

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Earl.Of.Trumps
On 1/27/2019 at 4:27 AM, RoofGardener said:

Hold on a minute... has he actually requested asylum in the USA ? The article merely states that he has defected 'from the government of President  Maduro". But the linked article title says he has defected to the USA ? If it is the latter, then this could just be economic opportunism ? 

Could it ever!

I just read today in a leaked story that claims the US gave him - the military attache in Washington, access to Venezuelan accounts in new york and washington. Not fair US!

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RavenHawk
On 1/21/2019 at 4:53 PM, Aquila King said:

Just for the sake of nipping any anti-socialism bulls**t in the bud:

 

On 1/22/2019 at 1:19 PM, RavenHawk said:

If you were a medical doctor, this is what would be known as a quack!  The math is basic but it does not represent the situation.  It throws truisms together and declares it fact and then you feel that you’ve made your point.  That is poor logic.  What caused the collapse in both Venezuela and Zimbabwe were poor decisions and management.  Capitalism is designed to evolve and learn from mistakes.  Socialism does not.  Socialism is bent on reengineering human nature to serve the state.  Through all of history this had been the standard.  It has been the “ones which we tried & failed at the most”.  And through all that time, we failed to learn much.  There had been pockets of enlightenment here and there.  Then came the Age of Enlightenment.  From the writings of the likes of Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Jay and others like Adam Smith and many more, we evolved to a higher form.  Being something new, it is filled with footfalls but we have the ability to overcome and adapt to new situations and improve (where Socialism never could).  Creativity is the key to innovation.  Capitalism encourages creativity.  Under Socialism, independent thought must be shutdown, controlled, and limited.  It must be replaced by the party line.

 

I see you declined to reply?  I wonder why?  OK, let’s make it easy @Aquila King.  In a short paragraph what is Socialism to you.  Please refrain from posting a link.  I’d like to hear it in your own words.  And be prepared to defend it.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
4 hours ago, and then said:

This is telling:

Words on Bolton's notepad that were visible during the briefing -- "5,000 troops to Colombia" -- were related to the situation in Venezuela, White House officials confirmed to Fox News. One idea being debated may include pre-positioning U.S. forces in Colombia in case they are needed in Venezuela.

And this is one US military intervention I'll be cheering, if it has to be that way.  Take this dealer of human misery OUT.

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RavenHawk
16 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This is telling:

Words on Bolton's notepad that were visible during the briefing -- "5,000 troops to Colombia" -- were related to the situation in Venezuela, White House officials confirmed to Fox News. One idea being debated may include pre-positioning U.S. forces in Colombia in case they are needed in Venezuela.

And this is one US military intervention I'll be cheering, if it has to be that way.  Take this dealer of human misery OUT.

I'm wondering it this was intentional?  You have a note pad with one note on it?  Usually you start taking classified notes starting on page 2 or later so that you can cover your notes.  Do you really think Bolton would need to take notes if the only thing on the agenda was to send 5000 troops to Columbia?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

I'm wondering it this was intentional?  You have a note pad with one note on it?  Usually you start taking classified notes starting on page 2 or later so that you can cover your notes.  Do you really think Bolton would need to take notes if the only thing on the agenda was to send 5000 troops to Columbia?

Who knows, Hank?  I suspect it is deliberate otherwise the whitehouse would have no comment or say it is classified.  Sounds like a child's game,  if so.

I should think it would be easier for Secretary of Defense (Shanahan) or the whitehouse spokesman to simply announce it.

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Gromdor

You know,  Maduro has been saying for years that America was destabilizing Venezuela and that the CIA was staging a coup.  Now this event with Juan Guaidó occurred and it seems like we are trying out best to make it true.  Are we really going to make this a central American version of Iraq for us?

It seemed like it was playing out in our favor on it's own.  Yet now we are talking about invasion?

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Earl.Of.Trumps
3 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You know,  Maduro has been saying for years that America was destabilizing Venezuela and that the CIA was staging a coup.  Now this event with Juan Guaidó occurred and it seems like we are trying out best to make it true.  Are we really going to make this a central American version of Iraq for us?

It seemed like it was playing out in our favor on it's own.  Yet now we are talking about invasion?

 

No way. For one, the people are truly against Maduro and they may send him packing without the US.  Also, President Bolsanaro of Brazil has made statements of his own vowing to address the Maduro problem. It sounded like he wanted to take action himself.

Personally, I don't think the US will have to take military action.

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Farmer77
7 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Personally, I don't think the US will have to take military action.

Well Russia doesnt want us to so I doubt we will as well. At least not overtly. I could see a concentrating of special forces and intelligence assets (beyond what we're already doing) though.

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Earl.Of.Trumps
5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Well Russia doesnt want us to so I doubt we will as well. At least not overtly. I could see a concentrating of special forces and intelligence assets (beyond what we're already doing) though.

Trump has already been taken to the woodshed by Vlad just for what the US done already. Vlad flew two long range Russian bombers into Venezuela to show support for Maduro and to do an "in your face" to the US.

People think the two are tied at the hip but that's just speculation at best

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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Black Red Devil
On 1/27/2019 at 1:53 AM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

So glad to see America take a stance against dictators. Venezuela is on the verge. I think we are justified in giving a little push.

A pity Trump doesn't do the same with those dictators in Saudi Arabia.

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Black Red Devil
On 1/23/2019 at 7:19 AM, RavenHawk said:

If you were a medical doctor, this is what would be known as a quack!  The math is basic but it does not represent the situation.  It throws truisms together and declares it fact and then you feel that you’ve made your point.  That is poor logic.  What caused the collapse in both Venezuela and Zimbabwe were poor decisions and management.  Capitalism is designed to evolve and learn from mistakes.  Socialism does not.  Socialism is bent on reengineering human nature to serve the state.  Through all of history this had been the standard.  It has been the “ones which we tried & failed at the most”.  And through all that time, we failed to learn much.  There had been pockets of enlightenment here and there.  Then came the Age of Enlightenment.  From the writings of the likes of Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Jay and others like Adam Smith and many more, we evolved to a higher form.  Being something new, it is filled with footfalls but we have the ability to overcome and adapt to new situations and improve (where Socialism never could).  Creativity is the key to innovation.  Capitalism encourages creativity.  Under Socialism, independent thought must be shutdown, controlled, and limited.  It must be replaced by the party line.

 

Venezuela failed because it's a banana republic and Maduro its dictator.  Nothing to do with Socialism.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Black Red Devil

doubled up

Edited by Black Red Devil

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Aquila King

86c51c0.jpg

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spartan max2
3 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

A pity Trump doesn't do the same with those dictators in Saudi Arabia.

The main difference is Venezuela is in our hemisphere so more directly effects us and there is a clear democratic opposition faction and government. Unlike in Saudi Arabia 

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RavenHawk
41 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

86c51c0.jpg

By all means, enlighten us.  Please instruct us in Socialism?  But let's keep it as simple as possible.  In your own words, what is Socialism in a short paragraph?

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Black Red Devil
57 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

The main difference is Venezuela is in our hemisphere so more directly effects us and there is a clear democratic opposition faction and government. Unlike in Saudi Arabia 

Yep, I understand the politics but lets not try to twist this into righteous humanitarian action taken by the current POTUS against dictators otherwise Trump should have acted the same way against the Prince of SA.  The interference into Venezuelan politics by the USA, Europeans, Australia and other western allies is pure and simply for political reasons of interest mainly to the USA and not a stance against dictatorships.

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Gromdor
1 minute ago, Black Red Devil said:

Yep, I understand the politics but lets not try to twist this into righteous humanitarian action taken by the current POTUS against dictators otherwise Trump should have acted the same way against the Prince of SA.  The interference into Venezuelan politics by the USA, Europeans, Australia and other western allies is pure and simply for political reasons of interest mainly to the USA and not a stance against dictatorships.

Venezuela having the world's largest proven oil reserves at 296 billion barrels might be a factor as well...  Even at 53$ a barrel, they are sitting on $15 trillion dollars.  Pity they can't eat that or sell it for food.  Exxon will be happy to take it off their hands once we liberate them from "socialism".

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Aquila King
38 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

By all means, enlighten us.  Please instruct us in Socialism?  But let's keep it as simple as possible.  In your own words, what is Socialism in a short paragraph?

For the sake of others reading, not for you...

First of all I need to clarify: There are many variations of the term 'Socialism', and just as with all politics there are various Socialist views along the political spectrum. But the one thrown around most often now days is Democratic Socialism. I personally would consider myself more of a Social Democrat, which is slightly different. Although Bernie Sanders popularized the term 'Democratic Socialism' in the last democratic primary while running on what is essentially a Social Democratic platform. So there is some major confusion right now in this country as to what exactly a Democratic Socialist is (again, partly due to Bernie Sanders inaccurately calling himself a Democratic Socialist, but also in large part due to a deliberate disinformation campaign by conservatives and conservative media on the right). So for the sake of argument here, I'll just continue to do as Bernie Sanders did and refer to this specific ideology most of us in the American populist left movement as 'Democratic Socialism' even though technically the correct term would be 'Social Democracy'.

A Democratic Socialist is not a Marxist or Communist. A Democratic Socialist is still a Capitalist, just one who seeks to restrain the natural self-destructive excess of unchecked Capitalism, and channel government's access of our tax money into insuring that we provide an equal opportunity for everyone, regardless of economic upbringing and social status. Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically to meet human needs, not simply to make profits for a greedy few. They believe the economy should serve the needs of the people, rather than people serving the economy, and the greedy desires of the wealthy elites. They believe in middle-out demand-side economics, which means instead of giving massive tax breaks to the wealthiest of 1% and hope that somehow it'll 'trickle down' to the rest of America, instead we should make sure that the wealthiest individuals pay their fair share in taxes and then pour their tax dollars into the middle and working class so that they have enough money to invest in and grow the free market economy; all while insuring those living in abject poverty have an equal opportunity to work their way out of it.

In short: Democratic Socialism is in favor of we the people democratically insuring an equal opportunity for everyone by holding the private seactor accountable for the welfare of all Americans.

Now, feel free to dissect my post and give your usual nonsensical rambling rebuttal @RavenHawk. I've laid out all I need to in response to your request. I've answered your question, and won't respond to any more. Because again, talking to you is about as productive as talking to wall. I only write this for anyone else who might be reading. Just letting you know.

FI6tXB0.jpg

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Aquila King

socialist_programs_0_90_1_90_1_90_1_90_1_90_1_90.png

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Black Red Devil
42 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Venezuela having the world's largest proven oil reserves at 296 billion barrels might be a factor as well...  Even at 53$ a barrel, they are sitting on $15 trillion dollars.  Pity they can't eat that or sell it for food.  Exxon will be happy to take it off their hands once we liberate them from "socialism".

My point exactly.

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Black Red Devil
26 minutes ago, Aquila King said:

For the sake of others reading, not for you...

First of all I need to clarify: There are many variations of the term 'Socialism', and just as with all politics there are various Socialist views along the political spectrum. But the one thrown around most often now days is Democratic Socialism. I personally would consider myself more of a Social Democrat, which is slightly different. Although Bernie Sanders popularized the term 'Democratic Socialism' in the last democratic primary while running on what is essentially a Social Democratic platform. So there is some major confusion right now in this country as to what exactly a Democratic Socialist is (again, partly due to Bernie Sanders inaccurately calling himself a Democratic Socialist, but also in large part due to a deliberate disinformation campaign by conservatives and conservative media on the right). So for the sake of argument here, I'll just continue to do as Bernie Sanders did and refer to this specific ideology most of us in the American populist left movement as 'Democratic Socialism' even though technically the correct term would be 'Social Democracy'.

A Democratic Socialist is not a Marxist or Communist. A Democratic Socialist is still a Capitalist, just one who seeks to restrain the natural self-destructive excess of unchecked Capitalism, and channel government's access of our tax money into insuring that we provide an equal opportunity for everyone, regardless of economic upbringing and social status. Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically to meet human needs, not simply to make profits for a greedy few. They believe the economy should serve the needs of the people, rather than people serving the economy, and the greedy desires of the wealthy elites. They believe in middle-out demand-side economics, which means instead of giving massive tax breaks to the wealthiest of 1% and hope that somehow it'll 'trickle down' to the rest of America, instead we should make sure that the wealthiest individuals pay their fair share in taxes and then pour their tax dollars into the middle and working class so that they have enough money to invest in and grow the free market economy; all while insuring those living in abject poverty have an equal opportunity to work their way out of it.

In short: Democratic Socialism is in favor of we the people democratically insuring an equal opportunity for everyone by holding the private seactor accountable for the welfare of all Americans.

Now, feel free to dissect my post and give your usual nonsensical rambling rebuttal @RavenHawk. I've laid out all I need to in response to your request. I've answered your question, and won't respond to any more. Because again, talking to you is about as productive as talking to wall. I only write this for anyone else who might be reading. Just letting you know.

FI6tXB0.jpg

Just to add that Universal Healthcare and Social Security are also integral parts of Social Democratic systems which assist the less wealthier in society.  Right wing politics are usually against the principals of Universal Healthcare and Social Security because it means the Govt has to subsidise these systems through taxation and greedy people usually don't like to share. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

Venezuela having the world's largest proven oil reserves at 296 billion barrels might be a factor as well...  Even at 53$ a barrel, they are sitting on $15 trillion dollars.  Pity they can't eat that or sell it for food.  Exxon will be happy to take it off their hands once we liberate them from "socialism".

and 

49 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

My point exactly.

 

Before Maduro replaced actual professionals with loyalist stooges to run PDVSA, Venezuela had much higher production coming from their reserves.  They paid more for the service as it was, yes, but got more in return. But Maduro was so greedy he did  not want to "share".

What Maduro actually did was cut his nose to spite his face. People are not slaves. You either pay the professionals what they are worth or you get what you deserve. 

Since then, Venezuela has defaulted on loans that were taken out predicated on projected oil production being higher than what it ultimately became, and of course, the revenues to the Venezuelan government are in the tank, as well.  Oh, well.

That is what I call one hard headed socialist pig. Everyone is suffering in Venezuela except for Maduro and his close minions. 

Can we share??

 

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