ParahormonalActivity Posted February 4, 2019 #101 Share Posted February 4, 2019 It smeared "car" on the floor in human feces? Or stuff from a pot-pourri bowl? I can't tell. I wish we'd had colour photographs 20 years ago...in the late 90's! I've not heard of the Humpty Doo poltergeist. Gonna have a look into that when I get off work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 4, 2019 Author #102 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Quote Humpty Doo poltergeist. Its an interesting case. https://thefortean.com/2018/03/13/humpty-doo-poltergeist-20-years/ Knives hurled across the kitchen and words spelled out with pebbles in the bathroom: The 'malicious' Poltergeist refusing to leave Australia's most haunted house www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975035/Poltergeist-maliciously-terrorised-home-four-months-writing-threatening-messages-hurling-knives-bullets-rooms-attempts-exorcise-FAILED.html ~ A poltergeist that maliciously terrorised a home for four months by hurling stones and knives at the people who lived there has been described as one of the most spookiest supernatural occupations in Australia. Tony Healy and Paul Cropper spent several days at the Humpty Doo home in the Northern Territory when the poltergeist was in full swing back in 1998. The pair have published details of the encounter in their new book Australian Poltergeist: The Stone-throwing Spook of Humpty Doo and Many Other Cases. The book details 50 of Australia's poltergeist occupations dating back to 1845 - with Humpty Doo coming in at number two. The ghostly encounters at the McMinns Drive property started in January 1998 when the poltergeist started dropping pebbles from the ceiling onto the floor, tables, beds and heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted February 8, 2019 #103 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 1/22/2019 at 10:12 AM, papageorge1 said: So everytime a new discovery is made everything else needs to be rewritten too? I don’t think so. actually yes.. you may want to do a bit of research.. start with Copernicus then go to newtons laws.. then work up from there.. you will see that it has been rewritten.. they thought Eisenstein was it. .then came quantum mechanics.. again.. causing a rewrite.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted February 8, 2019 #104 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 7:35 AM, psyche101 said: We have several viable models is why. The riddle of the universe really comes down to a set of possibilities at this point. Just because we have not worked out which variation is the best option does nor mean they are all wrong. actually I have a bit of a theory on that.. will post it in the space section 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 8, 2019 #105 Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, DingoLingo said: actually yes.. you may want to do a bit of research.. start with Copernicus then go to newtons laws.. then work up from there.. you will see that it has been rewritten.. they thought Eisenstein was it. .then came quantum mechanics.. again.. causing a rewrite.. If poltergeists are accepted then Newtons laws will still work the same. Whether we call this 'a rewrite' or 'an addition' is just word choice. As a believer in the overwhelming evidence suggesting so-called poltergeist activity does indeed occur, I believe observation (of poltergeist activity) currently precedes scientific understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 13, 2019 #106 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 3:48 AM, papageorge1 said: I see you are heavily influenced by physics and physics is of course a great thing (minus any arrogance that is). I share your respect for physics and I believe any belief in the paranormal must also be consistent with a non-arrogant form of physics. Physics can't be arrogant, that is just another sentence that confirms just how far apart you and science actually are. On 1/26/2019 at 3:48 AM, papageorge1 said: To me the tipping point came with the model of reality that posits additional planes of nature in different dimensions and at vibratory rates beyond detection by our physical senses and instruments. This is held by many of the more intelligent (in my opinion) esoteric researchers. Those esoteric researchers are just fiction writers. Your using a Sci fi definition of dimensions. Dimensions are directions that exist at a subatomic level. How do you find fictional descriptions of quantum mechanics to be a tipping point when it doesn't confirm to conventional understandings? On 1/26/2019 at 3:48 AM, papageorge1 said: Now, don't expect me too fully explain the physics Lol, now I strongly suspect that would be asking for the impossible! On 1/26/2019 at 3:48 AM, papageorge1 said: but I will say that after decades of fascination with the so-called paranormal that this enhanced understanding of reality better makes sense of these 'beyond the normal' human experiences than where conventional physics is at (usually with an overzealous urge to just dismiss). You could have just said that you don't understand science so you make up stuff and hate on anything that disagrees with your imagination. That would be a clearer way to express that anyway. Enhanced understanding of reality??? That's your sense of humour kicking in right? On 1/26/2019 at 3:48 AM, papageorge1 said: I also believe life (and us) have aspects in these non-physical realms and that we have an astral plane aspect that continues as 'us' after physical death. There's no good reason to consider that myth as at all plausible. You see it that way only because you want to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 13, 2019 #107 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 2/9/2019 at 2:43 AM, papageorge1 said: If poltergeists are accepted then Newtons laws will still work the same. Whether we call this 'a rewrite' or 'an addition' is just word choice. As a believer in the overwhelming evidence suggesting so-called poltergeist activity does indeed occur, I believe observation (of poltergeist activity) currently precedes scientific understanding. Perhaps because astronomy has nothing to do with physics? If an afterlife was proven, it would mean all sub atomic knowledge is wrong. It would mean all we thought we knew about atoms would be rewritten, not added to. I just can't see that happening at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 13, 2019 Author #108 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Quote If an afterlife was proven, it would mean all sub atomic knowledge is wrong. It would mean all we thought we knew about atoms would be rewritten, not added to. I just can't see that happening at all. Pay attention to what you're saying. "If an afterlife is proven" The afterlife can never be proven. If it was that would end the existence of the afterlife. If we discover that the our current knowledge of subatomic is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Theories get revised everyday. Its called growth. Its called understanding. We need to look at these things as men. As scientist and while doing so ask important questions. The poltergeist is just spoke of an illustrious wheel that science has yet to figure out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted February 13, 2019 #109 Share Posted February 13, 2019 12 hours ago, psyche101 said: If an afterlife was proven, it would mean all sub atomic knowledge is wrong. It would mean all we thought we knew about atoms would be rewritten, not added to. The afterlife has already been shown to exist beyond reasonable doubt to my satisfaction and atoms keep on being atoms. Another question; how well does your conception of the universe work with four dimensions, five dimensions,....., twenty-two dimensions (or something like that in string theory). I don't claim to understand string theory or other deep physics theories to much extent BUT my common sense tells me observation of afterlife indicating phenomena can precede scientific understanding by centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #110 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 hours ago, macqdor said: Pay attention to what you're saying. "If an afterlife is proven" The afterlife can never be proven. Why not? If it exists that should certainly be provable. Allegedly, it is claimed to interact with our physical reality, therefore it can be detected measured and weighed. Quote If it was that would end the existence of the afterlife. That makes no sense at all unless you are referring to imagination. Quote If we discover that the our current knowledge of subatomic is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Yes it would. Since its introduction, when has the theory been rewritten? Quote Theories get revised everyday. Its called growth. Its called understanding. I don't think you are understanding. Its not an addition or ammendments. If some force was connected to the brain that facilitates an afterlife concept, the would be a complete rewrite. Back to square one. Every observation we have documented would be wrong. Yet our understanding of atoms is supported by other evidences and predictions. I just can't see that happening. And without a shred of evidence to support such a proposal, its honestly ridiculous to consider it as at all plausible. Quote We need to look at these things as men. As scientist and while doing so ask important questions. The poltergeist is just spoke of an illustrious wheel that science has yet to figure out. Until anything more than anecdotes exist to support these claims there's nothing to figure out and no questions to ask. Marveling over anecdotes is not sufficient evidence to consider the claims as more than misidentification or a zealous approach to an unusual occourence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #111 Share Posted February 14, 2019 7 hours ago, papageorge1 said: The afterlife has already been shown to exist beyond reasonable doubt to my satisfaction and atoms keep on being atoms. Your satisfaction is where the obvious flaw in that statement sits. Atoms keep being atoms and defy your imaginative conclusions. That means you have the problem here, not atoms, or our understanding of atoms. 7 hours ago, papageorge1 said: Another question; how well does your conception of the universe work with four dimensions, five dimensions,....., twenty-two dimensions (or something like that in string theory). I don't claim to understand string theory or other deep physics theories to much extent BUT my common sense tells me observation of afterlife indicating phenomena can precede scientific understanding by centuries. Your common sense is not so common if you have not noticed, and sense is quite an exaggerated term to use there. You're using sci fi concepts with real world science for a start. You don't understand science well enough to comment on its progress, or what it understands. If you did, you would not make such statements as you would understand why your above ideas are simply not viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 14, 2019 #112 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, psyche101 said: it is claimed to interact with our physical reality, therefore it can be detected measured and weighed. That is an opinion, not necessarily factual. 8 hours ago, macqdor said: The afterlife can never be proven. If it was that would end the existence of the afterlife. Interesting idea. It is already proven to me. That it remains "below the radar", is interesting, and does cause one to wonder why it is so. I think the answer is the receiver has to be switched on, and have the dial adjusted to the wavelength, as it were, or receive only "noise" and we are that receiver. The atheist has switched the receiver off, never mind about not twiddled the tuning dial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 14, 2019 Author #113 Share Posted February 14, 2019 @psyche101 Quote It exists therefore it should be provable.? Time to update your paradigm sir smh Our current of understanding of science is constantly being revised. constantly being evaluated. The poltergeist and everything in it exist outside those accepted norms. THATS WHY ITS CALLED PARANORMAL.................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #114 Share Posted February 14, 2019 34 minutes ago, Habitat said: That is an opinion, not necessarily factual. How so, can you explain how somthing that interacts with this 'reality' for want of a better word, and cannot be measured. Moving something here requires energy, every action and all that. So why could that energy escape measurement, and how does it exist in our closed system? Again, this is basic physics. Circumventing it requires more information than the claim 'ghosts can do it'. The most obvious and likely conclusion to such a claim is that it is wrong. 34 minutes ago, Habitat said: Interesting idea. It is already proven to me. That it remains "below the radar", is interesting, and does cause one to wonder why it is so. I think the answer is the receiver has to be switched on, and have the dial adjusted to the wavelength, as it were, or receive only "noise" and we are that receiver. The atheist has switched the receiver off, never mind about not twiddled the tuning dial. That's just self delusion and I think that you know it, but would never admit it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 14, 2019 Author #115 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Quote How so, can you explain how somthing that interacts with this 'reality' for want of a better word, and cannot be measured. Moving something here requires energy, every action and all that. So why could that energy escape measurement, and how does it exist in our closed system? Thats what we're trying to figure out LOL. It does therefore our understanding of science is wrong. I'll take what my eyes see vs. a equation written on a chalk board anyday. You would do if it happened to you. If your couch levitated and flew across the room are you telling me your still going to be beholden to science? you killing me LOL. Quote Again, this is basic physics. Circumventing it requires more information than the claim 'ghosts can do it'. The most obvious and likely conclusion to such a claim is that it is wrong. No one said Ghosts. We're talking about poltergeist. Master the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #116 Share Posted February 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, macqdor said: @psyche101 17 minutes ago, macqdor said: Time to update your paradigm sir smh Our current of understanding of science is constantly being revised. constantly being evaluated. It is not constantly being entirely rewritten. Ammendments and additions are not complete rewrites. Everything we know about atoms and the firces of nature would be wrong if an afterlife existed. It would not be a footnote. You and papageorge1 don't seem to recognise the implications of what you are suggesting? 17 minutes ago, macqdor said: The poltergeist and everything in it exist outside those accepted norms. THATS WHY ITS CALLED PARANORMAL.................................... That's not how science works. If it's not proven, it's conjecture, if the proposal defies physics, it's wrong. If something can affect this reality, it can be measured. It's really that simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted February 14, 2019 #117 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, psyche101 said: How so, can you explain how somthing that interacts with this 'reality' for want of a better word, and cannot be measured. Moving something here requires energy, every action and all that. So why could that energy escape measurement, and how does it exist in our closed system? Simply by being able to avoid any such attempt. You imagine this is unable to escape the net. I think it knows all about the net before you do ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 14, 2019 Author #118 Share Posted February 14, 2019 That's grossly not true and on so many levels. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #119 Share Posted February 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, macqdor said: Thats what we're trying to figure out LOL. It does therefore our understanding of science is wrong. Yet it cannot, so the most likely conclusion is that the claims are short of information or outright wrong. Quote I'll take what my eyes see vs. a equation written on a chalk board anyday. That's just personal bias. The poltergeist idea appeals to you, so you look for evidence to fit the conclusion. Your approach is all wrong to start with. Quote You would do if it happened to you. I really wonder what I might do. But I suspect it won't, because for some funny reason, these things never seem to affect rational people who think critically. Another important aspect not factored into any 'paranormal' evaluation I have ever seen. Quote If your couch levitated and flew across the room are you telling me your still going to be beholden to science? I'd try and work out what was going on for sure. But I just can't see it happening. As I said above, the paranormal seems to avoid critical thinkers for some reason. Quote you killing me LOL. Sorry to hear that. Not sure how posting is sending you to the grave but there we go I suppose. Quote No one said Ghosts. We're talking about poltergeist. Master the difference. Habitat is referring to ghosts. That's who the post was originally addressed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #120 Share Posted February 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, Habitat said: Simply by being able to avoid any such attempt. You imagine this is unable to escape the net. I think it knows all about the net before you do ! Well either that or your guess is wrong. Honestly, that your guess is wrong really seems the most likely option here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #121 Share Posted February 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, macqdor said: That's grossly not true and on so many levels. LMAO What are you referring to exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 14, 2019 Author #122 Share Posted February 14, 2019 @psyche101 You'd do yourself some credit to spend about 6 months investigating poltergeist phenomena. Regardless of you not believing it. You still need study it. Start with the oldest case ever reported and work your way to 2019. I guarantee your view will change. Thats the 3rd thing I did after encountering what I encountered. Best thing I ever did (as it relates to this experience.) Go to your local library. Query this community and others. Read books online and keep a log of all the accounts you find. This science you hold dear to. Cannot explain the Poltergeist. And thats not a bad thing. There are a a lot of things science can't explain. That which science can't explain is called a Mystery. Somewhere a "geist" "I exist therefore I am." happy "geist" knowledge searching................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 14, 2019 #123 Share Posted February 14, 2019 50 minutes ago, macqdor said: @psyche101 You'd do yourself some credit to spend about 6 months investigating poltergeist phenomena. Regardless of you not believing it. You still need study it. Start with the oldest case ever reported and work your way to 2019. I doubt I would find anything much I have not heard about. Like many posters here, I was originally very drawn to such mysteries and spent many youth years looking into the possibility. Seeing them all unravel bit by bit, case by case just seems like there is much less to the alleged phenomena than really exists. Quote I guarantee your view will change. Real, and verifiable evidence would change my mind. Quote Thats the 3rd thing I did after encountering what I encountered. Best thing I ever did (as it relates to this experience.) Go to your local library. Query this community and others. Read books online and keep a log of all the accounts you find. I really don't see the point in accumulating variations of a theme unless my goal is to validate that conclusion. Quote This science you hold dear to. Cannot explain the Poltergeist. And thats not a bad thing. There are a a lot of things science can't explain. I'm not sure I agree with that. I can't see why science cannot explain everything as well as that which it hasn't yet. Science is observation and recording to verify. If so anything that can be experienced can be explained. Quote That which science can't explain is called a Mystery. Science can't explain mannade mysteries because they don't exist and you cannot prove a negative. It can't explain Unicorns, fairies or gods either for the same reason. Quote Somewhere a "geist" "I exist therefore I am." happy "geist" knowledge searching................................................... I'd be more interested in the possibilities you discussed With Dingo Lingo. Possible causes of unusual events through conventional means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macqdor Posted February 14, 2019 Author #124 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Quote I doubt I would find anything much I have not heard about. Like many posters here, I was originally very drawn to such mysteries and spent many youth years looking into the possibility. Seeing them all unravel bit by bit, case by case just seems like there is much less to the alleged phenomena than really exists. No disrespect to this community but the information about poltergeist and their machinations listed here doesn't even make .00009% of cases being reported. Not even close. I sense intellectual laziness and excuses on your part. Put your world view to the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted February 14, 2019 #125 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, macqdor said: No disrespect to this community None taken. In fact I find the reception you are given is a good guide to how intelligent this community is.. 2 hours ago, macqdor said: but the information about poltergeist and their machinations listed here doesn't even make .00009% of cases being reported. OK, I call - please cite that number. In fact I'd ask you to immediately provide a properly evidenced case where trickery or stupidity or trolling or similar can be ruled out. Frankly I am sick to death of your smarmy remarks, vague handwaves, and the fact you never address direct questions. 2 hours ago, macqdor said: Not even close. PROVE IT. CITE THAT NUMBER, or admit you are just making ridiculous claims and using this forum as nothing but a blog. You are certainly not engaging in reasoned debate. You are not debating in good faith and I think it's time you were fully called on it. 2 hours ago, macqdor said: I sense intellectual laziness and excuses on your part. Put your world view to the test. You're the one making the ridiculous claims. BTW, when will you be citing the best evidenced paranormal claim, in your opinion? Be brave, and when we are done with it, remember, it was your BEST. Surely it would be intellectually lazy to not start with the best one, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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