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US SC Approves Ban on Trans in Military

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DieChecker
1 hour ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

It's unfortunate that Canadians aren't allowed to vote in the US. Probably just as well though. Conservatives would have one huge collective stroke.

Which policy change are you referring to? The one during Obama's administration? I believe he was the primary driver behind it. 

The divisiveness in your country is unfortunate. Because of it, some policies can never become well-entrenched enough to provide Americans with a semblance of security and stability. There is no way any Prime Minister here in Canada could upend our military transgender policy for whatever reason. You just don't do that to people.

Perhaps Canada should be allowed to vote in US elections and US citizens are allowed to vote in Canadian elections? I think that might be a more then fair trade.

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Setton
5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

.. and the UK. And most of Europe. :) 

Judges in the UK are appointed by the Queen (not a politician) and do not have an espoused political party. 

We keep a clear separation between politics and the running of the country. Even civil servants aren't allowed to express a public political opinion. In the US, it seems everything has to be linked to your party. Even basic science must be denied if it doesn't fit your party line. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
13 minutes ago, Setton said:

Judges in the UK are appointed by the Queen (not a politician) and do not have an espoused political party. 

We keep a clear separation between politics and the running of the country. Even civil servants aren't allowed to express a public political opinion. In the US, it seems everything has to be linked to your party. Even basic science must be denied if it doesn't fit your party line. 

That's right.  And the libs want all the say. and for the most part, they are getting it.

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Thanato
24 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Perhaps Canada should be allowed to vote in US elections and US citizens are allowed to vote in Canadian elections? I think that might be a more then fair trade.

The US would have to be integrated into Parliament for that to happen. Unless you want to vote for 1 or 2 guys or one guy per state which h would be easier that way only 50 seats need to be added.

Edited by Thanato

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Kittens Are Jerks
38 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Perhaps Canada should be allowed to vote in US elections and US citizens are allowed to vote in Canadian elections? I think that might be a more then fair trade.

It would be a riot to see the outcomes of both elections.

Got any multilingual transgender hockey players planning a 2020 bid?

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Davros of Skaro

Carla.jpg

2remkz.jpg

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third_eye

Its all those dang Hollywood war movies and TV shows, they is corrupting the minds of the real soldiers ....

~

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Setton
1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

That's right.  And the libs want all the say. and for the most part, they are getting it.

I'm sorry, are you proud of being so partisan it renders you scientifically illiterate? 

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MWoo7

One never knows there might be many overseas parade operations, essential cat walks and parties through the night needed.  Maybe the ban will be reversed by the POTUS eh?!?!?!  Wars are a funny zany, super bizzare! off the wall ! thing you know.

Edited by MWoo7
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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Setton said:

Judges in the UK are appointed by the Queen (not a politician) and do not have an espoused political party. 

We keep a clear separation between politics and the running of the country. Even civil servants aren't allowed to express a public political opinion. In the US, it seems everything has to be linked to your party. Even basic science must be denied if it doesn't fit your party line. 

Oooh yes.. you are correct @Setton. My information was out of date: the role of the Lord Chancellor and the Prime Minister in selecting Judges was removed in 2006. Well spotted !

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Jodie.Lynne
8 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Many need injections every day.

Incorrect.

While some transgender MtF or FtM choose to take hormones by injection, hormones can also be administered in pill form, or even by transdermal patches (similar to nicotine patches).  Also, Hormone injections are NOT required every day, but once a week. 

 

While this is the first time I have heard the term "transies", I find it to be mildly irritating and insulting. The preferred term is "Transman" for FtM, "Transwoman" for MtF, and "transgendered" as an umbrella term.

For all those objecting to transgendered service people, substitute the words "black" or "woman" in your statements and see if you still feel comfortable saying them. If not, please examine your objections to Transgendered people serving in the military. :)

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Earl.Of.Trumps
27 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Incorrect.

While some transgender MtF or FtM choose to take hormones by injection, hormones can also be administered in pill form, or even by transdermal patches (similar to nicotine patches).  Also, Hormone injections are NOT required every day, but once a week. 

In correct? Aren't you contradicting yourself here?  I didn't say ALL, I said "many".  

27 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

 

While this is the first time I have heard the term "transies", I find it to be mildly irritating and insulting. The preferred term is "Transman" for FtM, "Transwoman" for MtF, and "transgendered" as an umbrella term.

'scuse me if I don't know the terms.  sheesh.  No, I won;t be going to politically correct school to learn them. Let's just say they are mixed up.

27 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

For all those objecting to transgendered service people, substitute the words "black" or "woman" in your statements and see if you still feel comfortable saying them. If not, please examine your objections to Transgendered people serving in the military. :)

Being black does not reduce our ability. Being woman does in some areas but that is what the military does so...

If your definition is correct (transgendered) how come it shows as being misspelled in here? hmmm.... not a politically correct spell checker.

Anyway, there is some measure of special attention you have to give to a trans person that you don't have to do with your standard recruit. No maintenance. If that's what the military wants, I'm Ok with it. JL, would you go to bat this hard for diabetics that are told they are unwanted in the military?

It's a nothing burger love fest for the libs, that's all.

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Jodie.Lynne
2 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

JL, would you go to bat this hard for diabetics that are told they are unwanted in the military?

It's a nothing burger love fest for the libs, that's all.

Diabetes is a physical illness, just like epilepsy. Your equivocation that transgenderism is at the same level as these illness is disingenuous. I am all for a person being fit to do the job. I feel that as long as a person is physically & mentally fit for a job (whether military, Police, or Firefighter) they should be allowed the opportunity to work the job. But from your comments, and others like you, I take that you consider the transgendered person to be mentally ill. So my words will fall on deaf ears.

And, just for clarity, I am 'going to bat this hard' for transgendered equality,  because I am a transwoman. But before you dismiss me as a liberal, know that I am a 2nd amendment supporting, gun toting, capital punishment endorsing girl. Who also happens to believe that affordable medical care and education and equal rights for all is the right of every citizen. So chew on that for a while. :)

Not being snarky or combative, but do a google search on 'violence against transgender'


 

Quote

 

Sadly, 2017 has already seen at least 29 transgender people fatally shot or killed by other violent means. As HRC continues to work toward justice and equality for transgender people, we mourn those we have lost

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2017

 

Quote

 

As is too often the case in the reporting of anti-transgender violence, many of these victims are misgendered in local police statements and media reports, which can delay our awareness of deadly incidents. In the pursuit of greater accuracy and respect for transgender and gender expansive people in both life and death, HRC offers guidelines for journalists and others who report on transgender people.

Sadly, 2018 has already seen at least 26 transgender people fatally shot or killed by other violent means. As HRC continues to work toward justice and equality for transgender people, we mourn those we have lost

https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2018

 

 

You see, with a ban on TG's serving in the military, and the conflicts over the usage of bathrooms, I see these as steps towards disenfranchising the Transgendered. You may think I am being paranoid, but where does one draw the line? What is next? denying TG's the right to own firearms because they are "mentally ill"? 

 

The sad fact is that you probably know someone who is transgendered. But they are terrified, yes TERRIFIED, to come out because they fear for their safety, fear losing their job, fear losing contact with those they love and care for.

 

So, let the invectives and insults fly. I have faced the worst and survived. The small minded and ignorant don't frighten me. And if I am ever killed by homophobic, ignorant straights, then by all the gods, I will enter Valhalla with an honor guard of my attackers leading the way.

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Diabetes is a physical illness, just like epilepsy. Your equivocation that transgenderism is at the same level as these illness is disingenuous.

No it's not disingenuous at all.  To have your own body be defined and your mind denying it is a sign of a mismatch. Something IS wrong. Nothing wrong with the mind, nothing wrong with the body, but together, they are a mismatch. Nature does not normally work that way or survival would become quite difficult.

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

I am all for a person being fit to do the job. I feel that as long as a person is physically & mentally fit for a job (whether military, Police, or Firefighter) they should be allowed the opportunity to work the job. But from your comments, and others like you, I take that you consider the transgendered person to be mentally ill. So my words will fall on deaf ears.

They may be fit for  the job but if they need to be categorized and kept track of separately and need special care and attention, they are an encumbrance. You notice the supreme court  disagrees with your assessment.

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

And, just for clarity, I am 'going to bat this hard' for transgendered equality,  because I am a transwoman. But before you dismiss me as a liberal, know that I am a 2nd amendment supporting, gun toting, capital punishment endorsing girl. Who also happens to believe that affordable medical care and education and equal rights for all is the right of every citizen. So chew on that for a while. :)

Not being snarky or combative, but do a google search on 'violence against transgender'


 

 

You see, with a ban on TG's serving in the military, and the conflicts over the usage of bathrooms, I see these as steps towards disenfranchising the Transgendered. You may think I am being paranoid, but where does one draw the line? What is next? denying TG's the right to own firearms because they are "mentally ill"? 

The military is one of just a handful of vocations that I can see problems erupting because of  it.

2 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

 

The sad fact is that you probably know someone who is transgendered. But they are terrified, yes TERRIFIED, to come out because they fear for their safety, fear losing their job, fear losing contact with those they love and care for.

 

So, let the invectives and insults fly. I have faced the worst and survived. The small minded and ignorant don't frighten me. And if I am ever killed by homophobic, ignorant straights, then by all the gods, I will enter Valhalla with an honor guard of my attackers leading the way.

 

I have no problem with you, JL, just at how you assess things. Have a good one.

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Hankenhunter
On 1/23/2019 at 9:34 AM, Careful_perspective said:

I think Trey Gowdy put it very well:

Nobody has a “right” to serve in the Military. Nobody. What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.

The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short. Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? Hearing damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn? Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can’t run the required course in the required time? Can’t do the required number of pushups? Not really a “morning person” and refuse to get out of bed before noon? All can be reasons for denial. The Military has one job. War. Anything else is a distraction and a liability. Did someone just scream “That isn’t Fair”? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful. YOU change yourself to meet Military standards.. Not the other way around. I say again: You don’t change the Military… you must change yourself. The Military doesn’t need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars. If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality… Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who’s next in line?

What the hell does that have to do with being gay or lesbian? You really like that broad brush your painting with don't you. The people you are dissing have some of the best athletes in the world just like any other demographic. Your post is null, void, and full of disingenuousness. 

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Hankenhunter
12 hours ago, Setton said:

Judges in the UK are appointed by the Queen (not a politician) and do not have an espoused political party. 

We keep a clear separation between politics and the running of the country. Even civil servants aren't allowed to express a public political opinion. In the US, it seems everything has to be linked to your party. Even basic science must be denied if it doesn't fit your party line. 

Party over Country it's called and it's run rampant throughout the Republican Party. It should be called treason. 

We have the same problem in Canada only they're called CONservatives.

Edited by Hankenhunter
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Hankenhunter
16 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Also, I think a lot of people believe this is a ban... outright tossing all transgender people. But go back to the OP links and that is not the case.

From the CNN article:

Those with no diagnosis of mental issues can serve no problem.

gen·der dys·pho·ri·a
/ˈjendər disˈfôrēə/
noun
MEDICINE
  1. the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex
     
    Gender dysphoria is not a disease. Unless the people who raise them are diseases. The cause of gender dysphoria is being pidgeon holed into one sex or another by close relatives and friends. Eliminate that and no problem. Let little billy pee sitting down or play with dolls or dress up. If proper care,attention and counseling is given to the child, instead of negative handwringing ,accusations, and downright bullying, he, she should be just fine. Stop promoting it as as a disease. More a culturally induced condition that can be eradicated easier than polio. All you have to do is "lay off and give the kid a break".
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DieChecker
8 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:
gen·der dys·pho·ri·a
/ˈjendər disˈfôrēə/
noun
MEDICINE
  1. the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex
     
    Gender dysphoria is not a disease. Unless the people who raise them are diseases. The cause of gender dysphoria is being pidgeon holed into one sex or another by close relatives and friends. Eliminate that and no problem. Let little billy pee sitting down or play with dolls or dress up. If proper care,attention and counseling is given to the child, instead of negative handwringing ,accusations, and downright bullying, he, she should be just fine. Stop promoting it as as a disease. More a culturally induced condition that can be eradicated easier than polio. All you have to do is "lay off and give the kid a break".

Sure. I understand that. However, if someone thinks they are something they are not, it is a mental condition. Nothing wrong with that. Almost everyone  could be diagnosed with something.

Give the kid a break. Sure. But perhaps this kid with extra issues shouldn't join the military till they sort out their issues?

Also your post doesn't dispute what I wrote, you are just clarifying a definition and throwing some Plea to Emotion on top.

Edited by DieChecker
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Kittens Are Jerks
On 25/01/2019 at 7:59 AM, DieChecker said:

I do believe that the military is outside the courts of civil and federal law. They function under military law, so civil cases can be tried all they want, and perhaps the legality of the President setting military law might come out, but if the military does decide to not allow specific trans gendered people, there will be very little Congress, or the Courts, can do about it.

The military is not outside the Constitution. 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
9 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Gender dysphoria is not a disease.

Neither is the condition of  "flat feet".

your point is....?

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MWoo7

A typo ?!?!?? eh!? .... here we go, all FIXED ! :)

5 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Neither is the condition of  "BIGFOOT".

your point is....?

 

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Earl.Of.Trumps
2 hours ago, MWoo7 said:

A typo ?!?!?? eh!? .... here we go, all FIXED ! :)

 

WooWoo, your so considerate :D

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DieChecker
18 hours ago, Kittens Are Jerks said:

The military is not outside the Constitution. 

True, but is outside normal civil law. Meaning a civilian lawyer is going to get no where.

https://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/military_law/military_us_constitution.htm

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Thanato
On 2019-01-27 at 3:43 AM, DieChecker said:

True, but is outside normal civil law. Meaning a civilian lawyer is going to get no where.

https://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/military_law/military_us_constitution.htm

The Military is not outside Civil or Federal Law. They must act in accordence to federal and civilian laws. However are given authority to disregard some laws in some cases. The Military is also governed by International law and convention. |

Military Law is for internal Military matters to ensure disipline of members is paramount. As the Military is the only job where you can be ordered to your death it is prudent that Military law is sperate from civil law for internal matters. 

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Hankenhunter
On 1/26/2019 at 5:38 AM, DieChecker said:

Sure. I understand that. However, if someone thinks they are something they are not, it is a mental condition. Nothing wrong with that. Almost everyone  could be diagnosed with something.

Give the kid a break. Sure. But perhaps this kid with extra issues shouldn't join the military till they sort out their issues?

Also your post doesn't dispute what I wrote, you are just clarifying a definition and throwing some Plea to Emotion on top.

No. Again, any mental condition she/he may have is a direct result of family and social constraints. They know in their minds what they want to be. It's people who mistakenly apply outmoded social mores causing the problems. Including you. Let them become who they want at an early age and by the time they are of age to join the Military, all the problems have vanished, leaving well adjusted adults. You way guarantees more kids will commit suicide. Not emotion but truth. Empathy is not in a Republicans lexicon. 

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