Trump surrenders to Democrats

[CrimsonKing]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Like I said, lots of people claiming gold when they are still sifting sand. Castrated? Safety? 

This is probably going to be like all the other End-of-Trump stories. Where there is much complaining and blame throwing and then joyous rapture, followed by nothing bad happening. A footnote forgotten by March.

Enjoy your win Pelosi supporters, while you can. Pelosi talks big, but she has 2 years of NONE of her legislation getting past the Senate or President, unless they deal or fold. She should be looking for allies, not burning bridges. 

Well...i'm far from a Pelosi "supporter",but kudos on the fantastic ability to turn s*** into a edible chocolate bar 

Trump just had his lieing John Mcain moment,Dems have had the house less than a month and already made him cave once on a BIGGIE...Without strong support from within his own party,he's pushing real close to "lame duck" territory...

[Tatetopa]

22 hours ago, susieice said:

It's only good until February 15th. There could be another shutdown in 3 weeks. He hasn't ruled out issuing a state of emergency either.

State of Emergency is preferable to me.  Shutting down the government  is a sign of incompetence and inability for the people we elected to do their jobs.  That is not the President alone, but Congress too.   

[Tatetopa]

20 hours ago, OverSword said:

Don't you get it?  The federal workers get paid, trump gets to make the SOTU address on schedule, if they don't reach a deal then the government shuts back down.  This is a political triple and trump has a man on third. 

A second shut down will not be any more popular than the first.   The President gains little by going that far.  But of course personally, I think a shutdown is a sign of dysfunctional government.

Fortunately, it will be even easier for the President to get a win. The Democrats will propose their plan for border security that will likely include enhanced surveillance and strategic barriers.  The President will sign it, take credit for it, say "This was what I wanted all along, I knew I had to play it brilliantly to get it."  President Trump's  loyal supporters will think he is the most brilliant deal maker ever, and life will go on. 

[Tatetopa]

20 hours ago, and then said:

I wish he'd deploy a couple of Divisions on the Border and shut down the Cartels for awhile.  If he did, he could negotiate with THEM to get an honorable deal for keeping the trash out. 

How do you get an honorable deal from cartels?  Are they not a big part of the trash you are referring to?

[CrimsonKing]

Just now, Tatetopa said:

How do you get an honorable deal from cartels?  Are they not a big part of the trash you are referring to?

They are no worse or less honorable than the trash we elect into office...

[Unusual Tournament]

12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

How do you get an honorable deal from cartels?  Are they not a big part of the trash you are referring to?

i don't think you can get anything honourable from such people. i think 'and then' just choose the wrong word.

[Tatetopa]

20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

there will be no wall, just better boarder security.

There will be something, call it a wall or strategic barrier or what ever.  If both parties can get it together, it will be in the right places with proper manning and electronic oversight.   Border security will improve. That is only half the problem.  Then they better move on to immigration reform. I am not holding my breath on that .

Nor am I too hopeful that they will actually talk to people who live and own land along the border, and get their opinions. Some of you folks are untroubled about taking their land to build a wall, you are pretty cavalier about eminent domain.  You justify it by saying it is for the good of all of us.  What would you do if they took your house of business property, smile and nod and say it is for the good of the state?

[Hawken]

There's been articles and videos all over the net that there's more to the shutdown then meets the eye.

Call it Conspiracy, But remember when Trump said, Drain The Swamp?

 

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/14/smoke-out-resistance/?fbclid=IwAR0gR87A1AapMyBpse1hBlYgqayjiNqRxM6oMujSQlO5dee_e3TATnG0P14

[Unusual Tournament]

18 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

A second shut down will not be any more popular than the first.   The President gains little by going that far.  But of course personally, I think a shutdown is a sign of dysfunctional government.

Fortunately, it will be even easier for the President to get a win. The Democrats will propose their plan for border security that will likely include enhanced surveillance and strategic barriers.  The President will sign it, take credit for it, say "This was what I wanted all along, I knew I had to play it brilliantly to get it."  President Trump's  loyal supporters will think he is the most brilliant deal maker ever, and life will go on. 

i agree, another shutdown will have an even bigger negative affect than the first. i have noticed that president Trump is starting to change some of his language so its possible that he's just using this as leverage to save some face.

“Let me be very clear,” Trump said, “we really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don’t get a fair deal from Congress, the government will either shut down on 15 February again, or I will use the powers afforded to me under the law and the constitution of the US to address this emergency.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/25/shutdown-latest-news-trump-reopens-government-deal-democrats

...or steel barrier...

[Tatetopa]

20 hours ago, OverSword said:

I disagree.  Now he gets to get on TV in front of the entire world and spin his narrative and point fingers while telling what will lead to another shut down in a week.  It's a huge political win.

I disagree.  Apart from dedicated supporters, most people in the world think he is a fool and a liar. He can spin all he wants point fingers and threaten another shutdown.   All the Democrats have to say is that they will negotiate for border security that is effective and reflects the will of the people, BUT they will not negotiate if Trump takes 800,000 people and their paychecks hostage.  Then they look like the reasonable ones.

[Unusual Tournament]

3 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

There will be something, call it a wall or strategic barrier or what ever.  If both parties can get it together, it will be in the right places with proper manning and electronic oversight.   Border security will improve. That is only half the problem.  Then they better move on to immigration reform. I am not holding my breath on that .

i agree. the democrats just cannot dismiss the boarder issue, especially since it was one of Trump's election platforms. the wall will morph in name and construction until it like you said it becomes more a system of barriers and electronic surveillance than a physical wall stretching across America. as for immigration reform i don't see it either. Trump is troublesome and unpredictable and the democrats will only do the bare minimal to make him look good until the next elections. 

9 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Nor am I too hopeful that they will actually talk to people who live and own land along the border, and get their opinions. Some of you folks are untroubled about taking their land to build a wall, you are pretty cavalier about eminent domain.  You justify it by saying it is for the good of all of us.  What would you do if they took your house of business property, smile and nod and say it is for the good of the state?

always a problem when peoples lives are messed with for the 'greater good.' there should really be legal and financial recourse embedded in the law every time some politician plays with peoples lives just so they can be reelected.   

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

i agree. the democrats just cannot dismiss the boarder issue, especially since it was one of Trump's election platforms. the wall will morph in name and construction until it like you said it becomes more a system of barriers and electronic surveillance than a physical wall stretching across America. as for immigration reform i don't see it either. Trump is troublesome and unpredictable and the democrats will only do the bare minimal to make him look good until the next elections. 

There are also Democrats that desire border security.   They may be a little softer on Dreamers and object to children being separated from their families but that doesn't mean they are in favor of open borders.  It doesn't mean they like to flow of drugs coming in either.  Read some of Reagan's remarks on immigration  and today they sound more Democrat than Republican. 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

We have 12,000 now gathering for the next caravan.  I wonder just how far this illegals can go before the patience of Mexico runs out.  Or how far they can go before Americans  figure out the system is broken.

[Farmer77]

[Farmer77]

15 hours ago, Hawken said:

There's been articles and videos all over the net that there's more to the shutdown then meets the eye.

Call it Conspiracy, But remember when Trump said, Drain The Swamp?

 

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/14/smoke-out-resistance/?fbclid=IwAR0gR87A1AapMyBpse1hBlYgqayjiNqRxM6oMujSQlO5dee_e3TATnG0P14

I did some looking into the various angles of the conspiracy theory and one angle in particular could be used by Trump during the next shutdown. I posted a link about it around here somewhere , anyways, apparently there is a law that says if a governmental department knows in advance how long they will be closed they can lay off its staff. So if Trump announces the next shutdown will be for X amount of time in 3 weeks theoretically that would give him the power to gut our federal agencies.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

I did some looking into the various angles of the conspiracy theory and one angle in particular could be used by Trump during the next shutdown. I posted a link about it around here somewhere , anyways, apparently there is a law that says if a governmental department knows in advance how long they will be closed they can lay off its staff. So if Trump announces the next shutdown will be for X amount of time in 3 weeks theoretically that would give him the power to gut our federal agencies.

C'mon, Farmer.   Lord help us!

[Big Jim]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Immigration isn't just about miles of border, but the amount of flow over those borders.  There aren't too many illegals swimming ashore after crossing oceans.  Neither have I heard about any caravans forming in Canada to make a rush into North Dakota.  Not building the wall on this reasoning is like not bailing water from a sinking boat because you can't get it all.  

[Myles]

27 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Immigration isn't just about miles of border, but the amount of flow over those borders.  There aren't too many illegals swimming ashore after crossing oceans.  Neither have I heard about any caravans forming in Canada to make a rush into North Dakota.  Not building the wall on this reasoning is like not bailing water from a sinking boat because you can't get it all.  

Not patching the biggest hole first because there are a couple other smaller holes.

[RoofGardener]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

You're not SERIOUSLY proposing that we should worry about people swimming across the Pacific or Atlantic oceans, are you Farmer77 ? 

What... all those impoverished Christians from Europe desperately crossing the Atlantic in small boats (such as the QE2) in order to sneak into America looking for a better life washing pots ?

I mean... SERIOUSLY Farmer77, why on EARTH have you posted that risible map ?  

[Guyver]

It's funny how different people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.  I've read the comments by people in this thread bashing Republicans and considering the Democrats to be the good guys in this scenario.  The fact is that many Democrats, especially Hillary and Obama are on record as stating that boarder security is an issue that needs to be addressed.  And it does.

Recently, a police officer from Modesto was shot and killed by an illegal immigrant who snuck across the boarder and this has been happening over and over again.  Not just with police officers getting killed by these illegals, but regular citizens as well.  Trump is right to make it an issue, because it is an issue, was an issue before he ever took office, and he actually ran with this  as one point of his platform.

The fact that ONE law enforcement officer, or law abiding citizen of the US has been killed by these illegals is reason enough to deal with it.  IMO.  And I don't care if you're a republican or democrat.  It's a NATIONAL security issue - not a political party issue.  

[Hankenhunter]

21 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

We have 12,000 now gathering for the next caravan.  I wonder just how far this illegals can go before the patience of Mexico runs out.  Or how far they can go before Americans  figure out the system is broken.

Interesting how you took the true figure and doubled it. Quads tomorrow?

[Setton]

3 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

You're not SERIOUSLY proposing that we should worry about people swimming across the Pacific or Atlantic oceans, are you Farmer77 ? 

What... all those impoverished Christians from Europe desperately crossing the Atlantic in small boats (such as the QE2) in order to sneak into America looking for a better life washing pots ?

I mean... SERIOUSLY Farmer77, why on EARTH have you posted that risible map ?  

Or the same people who currently cross the border on foot getting in a boat and landing on the US coast? 

If boatloads of people can make it from Africa to Italy, I think it's reasonable to think they can make it from Mexico to the US, don't you? 

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

The fact is that many Democrats, especially Hillary and Obama are on record as stating that boarder security is an issue that needs to be addressed.  And it does.

And perhaps they have a different idea on how that can be achieved. Instead of a wall you can just go around. 

Personally, what I find most interesting about this discussion is the number of those arguing for a wall for 'boarder security' who can't even spell border... 

[Hankenhunter]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

It's funny how different people can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions.  I've read the comments by people in this thread bashing Republicans and considering the Democrats to be the good guys in this scenario.  The fact is that many Democrats, especially Hillary and Obama are on record as stating that boarder security is an issue that needs to be addressed.  And it does.

Recently, a police officer from Modesto was shot and killed by an illegal immigrant who snuck across the boarder and this has been happening over and over again.  Not just with police officers getting killed by these illegals, but regular citizens as well.  Trump is right to make it an issue, because it is an issue, was an issue before he ever took office, and he actually ran with this  as one point of his platform.

The fact that ONE law enforcement officer, or law abiding citizen of the US has been killed by these illegals is reason enough to deal with it.  IMO.  And I don't care if you're a republican or democrat.  It's a NATIONAL security issue - not a political party issue.  

Then there your own cops who kill innocent people everyday, yet nothing is done. How many of these killers are actually charged and prosecuted? You are disingenuous with your "facts". I wonder how many immigrants have have died as a result of border patrols removing and dumping water placed on the Mexican and American side of the border. Or just killed for fun by sadistic border patrols. Your argument is invalid.

[+and-then]

On 1/25/2019 at 8:57 PM, DieChecker said:

I've never seen people Crow so much about someone making a good decision.

They asked him to open government, and so he does, and they deride him for it. Democrats are just precious. Very much like those kids in Junior high who beat your baseball team, and all pull down their pants and taunt you for loosing. Very grown up. 

They "get away" with their childish, arrogant behavior because they control the media 5th column.  They understand this and the rest of the country is finally beginning to twig to it as well.  Let the pot simmer.  Secession movements may be the best we can hope for.  No way a Federal military can or would attempt to pacify States that told them to *^%^*&%-off.  They could stand guard in urban areas but would only succeed in damaging their economies.  The U.S. military is drawn disproportionately from areas that would be ready to secede.  The sooner the better, IMO.  Stupid cowards will be standing around in an hysterical panic when they realize THEY will actually have to stand for what they say they believe in.  BURN IT DOWN!