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Captain Risky

Trump surrenders to Democrats

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Dredimus
11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I'm not ignoring facts im ignoring your distortion  of them. Making a blanket statement that violent crime went down as a result of the wall is simply misleading at best, lying at worst. Im sorry me calling that out bothers you.

 Truthfully thats tough as we have two wholly different perceptions of the issue at hand. Hence the reason that facts are so important. This regime has worked overtime at destroying anything that could even kinda be referred to as a commonly agreed upon fact. That started on literally day 1 with the inauguration fiasco and "alternative facts" .

Where I see the largest obstacle to conversat...........damnit ok gotta run for work

 

Yeah, thats what I figured. More of the same... Don't touch the topic at hand, continue to demonize who you can and call anyone who doesn't agree with your version of the facts a liar and avoid conversation at all cost. Its already been made evident that you are not here to converse the issues, you are here to do your best to belittle the "other side".

 

For everyone else reading along... this is the problem with our society. For the individual its your way or no way, your OWN truth is self evident, regardless of the facts around you. People cant drop their ideology for a moment and look at the big picture, and that's just sad to say the least.

Everyone should take the time to sit down and have a real discussion about how you feel about the issues at hand... everyone should also take the time to sit down and LISTEN to the other side about how they feel about the same issues... I think you will find that for the most part, common Americans share the same goals but the narrative is set by the media as a whole..

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Tatetopa
36 minutes ago, Dredimus said:

Everyone should take the time to sit down and have a real discussion about how you feel about the issues at hand... everyone should also take the time to sit down and LISTEN to the other side about how they feel about the same issues... I think you will find that for the most part, common Americans share the same goals

Excellent point. I may not completely understand your position, but here is the sense I get: lets talk about how we feel about issues and then use facts to find solutions that we can live with. 

Lets work on the things we have in common first.  That may not be the full-fledged give-and-take of compromise, but it gets us started.

We may all find that we most believe in secure borders and controlled immigration.  Then lets allow security experts, not politicians, the media or our personal opinions  to recommend the absolute best ways to do that.  We have plenty of money to do that.  That should be based on fact not opinion.

We may all find that infrastructure investment is a good idea.  Rather than the opinion of politicians and pork barrel projects, how about getting some facts from engineers on highways, flooding, the power grid, data transmission and ports  and setting a budget to appropriate the money we can afford each year to the projects with the most priority to the most people and the economy.

Americans will remain split on some major issues where compromise is not possible, but maybe we can take care of a host of common problems first,  We have been around for a couple of hundred years, I kinda feel like we owe it to our children and grandchildren not to be the selfish, stupid generation to burn it down or blow it up

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, Dredimus said:

Yeah, thats what I figured. More of the same... Don't touch the topic at hand, continue to demonize who you can and call anyone who doesn't agree with your version of the facts a liar and avoid conversation at all cost. Its already been made evident that you are not here to converse the issues, you are here to do your best to belittle the "other side".

The topic at hand, the most important topic facing America, is the erosion of truth and the creation of alternate realities.   If you cant acknowledge the reality that the man you are supporting is actively working to destroy that fundamental necessity for a society then of course you feel belittled. I definitely understand why you would feel that was an attack but its truly not.

2 hours ago, Dredimus said:

Everyone should take the time to sit down and have a real discussion about how you feel about the issues at hand... everyone should also take the time to sit down and LISTEN to the other side about how they feel about the same issues... I think you will find that for the most part, common Americans share the same goals but the narrative is set by the media as a whole..

This is a good sentiment. Its almost impossible to take seriously from anyone who supports Trump but it is a good sentiment.

I will add however that if you dont know the facts surrounding an issue, or insist in believing alternative facts,  your feelings are irrelevant or probably more appropriate when formulating feelings based on propaganda those feelings are likely to actually be harmful for yourself and community.

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

It worked in Israel. :) 

And France. And Morocco, and Spain. And Jordan. And Saudi. And Northern Ireland. And Hungary. (actually, quite a few places in Europe). And Turkey. 

It also worked in Finland, if you take into account violent crime committed by Reindeer !! 

My point is that it was stated as fact that it worked in El Paso to reduce violent crime and that doesnt really appear to be the case.

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Careful_perspective
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

The topic at hand, the most important topic facing America, is the erosion of truth and the creation of alternate realities.   If you cant acknowledge the reality that the man you are supporting is actively working to destroy that fundamental necessity for a society then of course you feel belittled. I definitely understand why you would feel that was an attack but its truly not.

So you truly think the most important topic facing America is the erosion of truth and creation of alternate realities? And this is caused by Trump?

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Hankenhunter
7 hours ago, Dredimus said:

And yet again, you miss the entire point... zero discussion, zero anything really. You've provided nothing to the conversation, only an argumentative tone time and time again. This is exactly what I have been pointing out since the first post. You keep saying "Facts Matter" but you decide to completely ignore the facts that don't support your ideology. See, you keep going back to your attacks on Trump.. I'm not Trump. OUR conversation isn't supposed to be a battle... its supposed to be a conversation... are you capable of that? Can you present ideas on how to fix the issues at hand?

All your doing is the usual deflecting from the truth. Why do you want him to acknowledge a flawed link. I read it also and found it to be disingenuous with the facts. What's your motive for this?

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Hankenhunter
2 hours ago, Careful_perspective said:

So you truly think the most important topic facing America is the erosion of truth and creation of alternate realities? And this is caused by Trump?

No. Trump is a symptom not a cause. Twenty-five years of Republican chicanery is the cause. Very easy to verify on line.

Edited by Hankenhunter
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Hankenhunter
6 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

It worked in Israel. :) 

And France. And Morocco, and Spain. And Jordan. And Saudi. And Northern Ireland. And Hungary. (actually, quite a few places in Europe). And Turkey. 

It also worked in Finland, if you take into account violent crime committed by Reindeer !! 

Why don't you ask the Mayor of El Paso what she thinks instead of touting corrupt land stealing regimes. 

 

 

Edited by Hankenhunter
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FFA

Trump has them exactly where he want's them.

The entire system imposed by the Democratic party over the last 100 years is about to be utterly destroyed. The will hyper-inflate the currency. All the social programs will be crushed. This is how they do it and always have done it. This is how Communism collapsed in the Soviet Union and most recently the dictatorship in Venezuela. It's coming here (Here being the USA.) and China is going too. 

Watch. You will blink and food and gas will go through the roof in cost. The credit system will collapse and the supply chain likewise because it is sustained by credit. Ask your self where are the majority of the Democratic party located. They are mostly in the urban areas. While the conservative is mostly in the rural and are around farms and can do a much better job of sustaining themselves if the supply chain shuts down. What do you thing the prevailing political ideology will be afterwards? What do you think will be the dominating religious belief? Bubbles form and pop all of the time. We are about to enter into a conservative era. 

It's not going to be pretty but its what is coming. 

 

Edited by FFA

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ChrLzs
4 hours ago, Careful_perspective said:

So you truly think the most important topic facing America is the erosion of truth and creation of alternate realities? And this is caused by Trump?

Yes.

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Aquila King
4 hours ago, Careful_perspective said:

So you truly think the most important topic facing America is the erosion of truth and creation of alternate realities? And this is caused by Trump?

 

download.png

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ChrLzs

To be a tad more effusive, the problem is your system which has over the years devolved into a parody of gov't that encourages truthlessness and distrust and corruption, and a voting system that gave you no choice for the last president.  No reasonable choice, that is.

I find it staggering to look at the systems that allow people like Trump to do what they do, ie rip off the middle/lower classes, use companies to defraud (over and over again) .... not to mention his other delightful characteristics...  And yet enough of the USA celebrates that sort of behavior (helped along by Russian manipulation and a good dose of gerrymandering and apathy) and votes him into the highest office of the land.

I'm not saying HC would have been any better, but it's hard to imagine anyone worse.

 

I feel guilty for saying it, but I am going to enjoy watching what happens to Trump, and I can only pray to my non-existent chosen deity that lessons get learnt.

 

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Aquila King
15 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

I find it staggering to look at the systems that allow people like Trump to do what they do, ie rip off the middle/lower classes, use companies to defraud (over and over again) .... not to mention his other delightful characteristics...  And yet enough of the USA celebrates that sort of behavior

This is what I've been saying for a long while. If most Americans actually knew how the majority of the rest of the world views them, then perhaps we'd finally get the picture.

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RoofGardener
4 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Why don't you ask the Mayor of El Paso what she thinks instead of touting corrupt land stealing regimes. 

 

 

I think it is VERY harsh to describe France, Morocco, Spain, Jordan, Saudi, Northern Ireland and Hungary as "corrupt land stealing regimes" ? 

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DieChecker

Interesting that the same people decrying Trump as a "Dictator" are the same ones who supported President Obama making unilateral decisions.

I guess dictatorship is ok if they are promoting what you want them to?

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RoofGardener
9 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

My point is that it was stated as fact that it worked in El Paso to reduce violent crime and that doesnt really appear to be the case.

Oooh right.. I hadn't realised that. Thanks for the correction, Farmer77.

Yup.. it seems Trump was WAY off the mark with that comment. However, it's worth noting one thing: even as the Mayor of El Paso was refuting the Presidents comments about El Paso being a dangerous city prior to the wall being built, he DID state that the wall had reduced illegal immigration. Which is - surely - is the main point ? 

So the example of El Paso highlights the key point: Walls Work ! :) 

Edited by RoofGardener
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Hankenhunter
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

I think it is VERY harsh to describe France, Morocco, Spain, Jordan, Saudi, Northern Ireland and Hungary as "corrupt land stealing regimes" ? 

Funny how you left out Israel. You must agree with me there. The rest? Saudi Arabia just as bad as Israel.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Walls Work, Part #2. 

San Diego. 

Walls work not as good Part#3:

If a Wall is built in the desert and on one ever sees it, is it still a Wall?

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Sir Wearer of Hats
5 hours ago, Aquila King said:

 

download.png

Jesus dude, I can think of half a dozen things wrong with America that are more important than “the media lies” and “people think they have a right to their own version of reality”.

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Farmer77

 

10 hours ago, Careful_perspective said:

So you truly think the most important topic facing America is the erosion of truth and creation of alternate realities? And this is caused by Trump?

I absolutely do think it is the most important topic facing America. No other topic can even be dealt with honestly in that environment. Whether its caused by Trump or he is just the latest and best at the gaslighting game is surely open to discussion

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Farmer77
2 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yup.. it seems Trump was WAY off the mark with that comment. However, it's worth noting one thing: even as the Mayor of El Paso was refuting the Presidents comments about El Paso being a dangerous city prior to the wall being built, he DID state that the wall had reduced illegal immigration. Which is - surely - is the main point ? 

Then stick to the main point. When something truly has value you dont need to lie or fudge the facts to sell it.

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Farmer77
3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Interesting that the same people decrying Trump as a "Dictator" are the same ones who supported President Obama making unilateral decisions.

I guess dictatorship is ok if they are promoting what you want them to?

Certainly seems to be the case

The GOP decried ‘King Obama.' Now it’s mostly quiet on Trump’s effort to revise the Constitution by himself.

 

 

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RoofGardener
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Then stick to the main point. When something truly has value you dont need to lie or fudge the facts to sell it.

Yup - I agree 100%. Trump got political and overboasted. Bad marks ! 

Nevertheless... Walls Work :) The thrust of his policy is correct :) 

Edited by RoofGardener
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RoofGardener
2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Walls work not as good Part#3:

If a Wall is built in the desert and on one ever sees it, is it still a Wall?

Yes. 

Unless it's a berm ? 

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