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Captain Risky

Trump surrenders to Democrats

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Tatetopa
8 hours ago, Big Jim said:

We've been assisting other countries for decades and it hasn't worked.

Of course it hasn't worked.  Most of the money goes to helping rich guys in those countries get richer and stay in power.

 

8 hours ago, and then said:

I realize this will be ignored because it doesn't fit the "narrative" you guys push but here goes, for the open-minded among UM:

Foreign aid creates jobs in the United States and boosts our economy. By law, nearly all U.S. assistance must be spent on American-produced goods. Israel spends nearly 75% of U.S. aid in the U.S. to purchase military equipment.  

If that aid is a welfare program, it's welfare for U.S. defense contractors.

Well good for you and then.  Too many people just get irate because they think  we give that money away with no strings attached.    We may be generous people, but we are not the suckers President Trump says.  The money going out gets a return.   Not only to defense contractors, but all kinds of corporations.   Oil concessions, banana plantations and a guarantee of no labor unrest,  one way or another we get the investment to pay.

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Setton
8 hours ago, Michelle said:

It is figured the shutdown costed the US 11 billion. Trump is asking for roughly 5 billion. Who is cutting their nose off to spite their face?

Probably the one who caused the shutdown. You know, the one who said he'd be proud of it. 

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RoofGardener
8 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

So Israel is spending 75% of US aid on US military equipment.  So they're basically getting these weapons for free and you don't call that aid? 

Yes. I call that aid to Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grummand and the rest. 

You have to remember the origins of the US aid package, BRD. Prior to 1973, it was pretty minimal. It only skyrocketed as

  1. A reaction to increasing Soviet influence in the middle east, especially their extravagant re-arming of Syria and Egypt. 
  2. American was afraid that the development of the Israeli Lavi fighter jet might undercut sales of the F16 on international arms markets. American killed the project by offering "free" F16's. And a very effective tactic it was too. 

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skliss
11 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Because they're flooding to your shores and you're already giving billions to countries that don't need the money.

Then we need to stop sending billions that are being misspent and use it here at home for the betterment of our citizens, which includes border security. Maybe Australia can send them a few billion instead.

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RoofGardener
5 hours ago, Setton said:

Probably the one who caused the shutdown. You know, the one who said he'd be proud of it. 

It takes two to Tango. Proud or otherwise. 

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Black Red Devil
39 minutes ago, skliss said:

Then we need to stop sending billions that are being misspent and use it here at home for the betterment of our citizens, which includes border security. Maybe Australia can send them a few billion instead.

Why, they're not scratching at our door?

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Black Red Devil
5 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes. I call that aid to Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grummand and the rest. 

You have to remember the origins of the US aid package, BRD. Prior to 1973, it was pretty minimal. It only skyrocketed as

  1. A reaction to increasing Soviet influence in the middle east, especially their extravagant re-arming of Syria and Egypt. 
  2. American was afraid that the development of the Israeli Lavi fighter jet might undercut sales of the F16 on international arms markets. American killed the project by offering "free" F16's. And a very effective tactic it was too. 

So 46 years of aid and they still need 3 billion a year.  How about if they gave 750 million to Central American countries for development and only 2.25 billion (75%) to Israel or other allied countries to buy their weapons?  That would still work. :P

Edited by Black Red Devil
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RoofGardener
13 minutes ago, Black Red Devil said:

So 46 years of aid and they still need 3 billion a year.  How about if they gave 1 billion to Central American countries for development and only 2 billion (75%) to Israel or other allied countries to buy their weapons?  That would still work. :P

Yup - I'd agree. 

I don't think Israel really warrants defence aid at all

However, America are addicted to it, because their defence companies (Boeing, Raytheon etc)   need that 2-3 Billion per year. 

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skliss
2 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

Why, they're not scratching at our door?

You seem pretty free throwing around our money.  Aren't we just one big kumbaya world? Shouldn't you guys pay your portion too?

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Setton
4 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

It takes two to Tango. Proud or otherwise. 

Why are you trying to take away his credit for this achievement? 

Trump said he wanted this and would be proud of it. Don't deny him that when he already gets so little credit! Have a heart man! 

Edited by Setton
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aztek

how about we give nothing to central American countries, and actually continue pay Israel for their role.  if Australians want to help CA, they are more than welcome to do so

Edited by aztek
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Black Red Devil
8 hours ago, skliss said:

You seem pretty free throwing around our money.  Aren't we just one big kumbaya world? Shouldn't you guys pay your portion too?

I'm not throwing around your money, your chiefs in charge are.  I'm just adding some ideas to your dilemma's and guess what, they're for free. :P

As for us paying our share, NO thanks, we already give aid around our region.  Anyway we aim low, you guys are the ones with Superpower ambitions with your 10 naval fleets spread across the world, NATO basis everywhere etc. Our leaders in charge are just happy to tag along and jump every time your bosses snap their fingers.

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and then
23 hours ago, Black Red Devil said:

I actually posted this in my previous post before reading your reply and I agree.  What I don't agree with is this idea that the world must supply, assist and defend Israel at all costs like you do.  Israel is capable of defending themselves and IMO of course, 2.9 billion could be spent better.  Then again, you're paying so who am I to lecture.  Just brain scanning alternative solutions.

In the M.E. we have no other real allies.  Israel depends on America's vote at the UN far more than our tiny amounts of cash or weaponry.  They're a net exporter of weapons tech.  They're using the F-35 in actual combat already and we're receiving tons of intel from those missions.  Think of their air force as Kippah wearing Guinea Pigs.  :)   Guinea Pigs that RARELY lose.  The other reason I'd give is that regardless the personal opinion people have of them and their right to be on that land, they ARE on that land and they will burn the world down before they allow themselves to be cast back into a Diaspora.  It seems little enough of a concession for the world to allow them a postage stamp size of territory in exchange for the region being left intact.  I'm talking Realpolitik here.  The Palestinian people could be living in a democracy with real advantages for their people.  REAL educational opportunities and vastly improved lives, economically, if they'd only lay down the hatred.  Gaza could be a world destination on the Mediterranean.  Instead, it's a killing-field and a blight on humanity.  It is a perfect example of how unbridled hatred will consume itself.

Edited by and then

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DieChecker
15 hours ago, skliss said:

You seem pretty free throwing around our money.  Aren't we just one big kumbaya world? Shouldn't you guys pay your portion too?

How about the US gives 10 billion in aid to Indonesia, so they can build more and better boats for those trying to reach Oz? After all, illegal, or not, they just want a better life, and work opportunities.

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Black Red Devil
6 hours ago, and then said:

In the M.E. we have no other real allies.  Israel depends on America's vote at the UN far more than our tiny amounts of cash or weaponry.  They're a net exporter of weapons tech.  They're using the F-35 in actual combat already and we're receiving tons of intel from those missions.  Think of their air force as Kippah wearing Guinea Pigs.  :)   Guinea Pigs that RARELY lose.  The other reason I'd give is that regardless the personal opinion people have of them and their right to be on that land, they ARE on that land and they will burn the world down before they allow themselves to be cast back into a Diaspora.  It seems little enough of a concession for the world to allow them a postage stamp size of territory in exchange for the region being left intact.  I'm talking Realpolitik here.  The Palestinian people could be living in a democracy with real advantages for their people.  REAL educational opportunities and vastly improved lives, economically, if they'd only lay down the hatred.  Gaza could be a world destination on the Mediterranean.  Instead, it's a killing-field and a blight on humanity.  It is a perfect example of how unbridled hatred will consume itself.

Hard to work out what intel they're going to get when they're bombing Palestinian houses in Gaza. Israel is surrounded by Hamas and Hezbolah who they could wipe out anytime of the day, Syria is in shambles, Jordan are closet allies thanks to the US, Egypt and Iraq have their own problems to worry about and Iran is every western ally enemy, not just Israels, thanks to the nuclear threat rhetoric raised by Israel and the US which nobody has ever proven and is probably more about undermining their oil in favor of SA's oil than a realistic military threat.

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Setton
7 hours ago, and then said:

regardless the personal opinion people have of them and their right to be on that land, they ARE on that land and they will burn the world down before they allow themselves to be cast back into a Diaspora.

You realise that you just described North Korea? 

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aztek
On 1/25/2019 at 7:35 PM, Captain Risky said:

sorry maybe i don't know a lot about the political system in your country but if Trump issues an EO to pay the federal workers then why would he shut government down?what advantage would he get...

the whole idea is that gvmnt is not working,    but in any case someone in DC has similar idea.

Congressmen introduce bill to withhold pay from Congress, president during government shutdowns

Three congressmen have introduced a bill Tuesday that would withhold pay from members of Congress, the president and the vice president in the event of a government shutdown.

Rep. Jared Golden of Maine, joined by Rep. Dan Crenshaw of Texas and Rep. Max Rose of New York, introduced the "Solidarity in Salary Act" on the House floor Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/congressmen-introduce-bill-to-withhold-pay-from-congress-president-during-government-shutdowns?fbclid=IwAR0ZYZTUGFV3AwBEsBYRX8uzVS1we6EB5rxScrKak2R6qlbAMtzPKvfc7UQ

 

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Captain Risky
29 minutes ago, aztek said:

the whole idea is that gvmnt is not working,    but in any case someone in DC has similar idea.

Congressmen introduce bill to withhold pay from Congress, president during government shutdowns

Three congressmen have introduced a bill Tuesday that would withhold pay from members of Congress, the president and the vice president in the event of a government shutdown.

Rep. Jared Golden of Maine, joined by Rep. Dan Crenshaw of Texas and Rep. Max Rose of New York, introduced the "Solidarity in Salary Act" on the House floor Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/congressmen-introduce-bill-to-withhold-pay-from-congress-president-during-government-shutdowns?fbclid=IwAR0ZYZTUGFV3AwBEsBYRX8uzVS1we6EB5rxScrKak2R6qlbAMtzPKvfc7UQ

 

That ^^^ doesn’t address what I wrote. On another note... Trump is independently wealthy enough to support himself and anyone else in his government and donates his presidential pay check to charity so no skin off Trump’s nose. But for the rest of congress it would put pressure to bow to Trumps threats. 

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Gromdor
58 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

That ^^^ doesn’t address what I wrote. On another note... Trump is independently wealthy enough to support himself and anyone else in his government and donates his presidential pay check to charity so no skin off Trump’s nose. But for the rest of congress it would put pressure to bow to Trumps threats. 

Eh, I think they get their wealth from their congressional position instead of their salary.  Pretty sure McConnell, Trump and Pelosi can happily sit till next elections without pay.

I think the bill that maintains funding for everything except Congressional and Executive branch spending would be more effective.

  The aptly named, Stop STUPIDITY Act: https://govtrackinsider.com/stop-stupidity-act-would-end-the-practice-of-government-shutdowns-by-automatically-renewing-most-e3c547f32638

 

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Captain Risky
11 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Eh, I think they get their wealth from their congressional position instead of their salary.  Pretty sure McConnell, Trump and Pelosi can happily sit till next elections without pay.

I think the bill that maintains funding for everything except Congressional and Executive branch spending would be more effective.

  The aptly named, Stop STUPIDITY Act: https://govtrackinsider.com/stop-stupidity-act-would-end-the-practice-of-government-shutdowns-by-automatically-renewing-most-e3c547f32638

 

Sure the three you mentioned could but I wonder how many more could?

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Setton
2 hours ago, aztek said:

the whole idea is that gvmnt is not working,    but in any case someone in DC has similar idea.

Congressmen introduce bill to withhold pay from Congress, president during government shutdowns

Three congressmen have introduced a bill Tuesday that would withhold pay from members of Congress, the president and the vice president in the event of a government shutdown.

Rep. Jared Golden of Maine, joined by Rep. Dan Crenshaw of Texas and Rep. Max Rose of New York, introduced the "Solidarity in Salary Act" on the House floor Tuesday afternoon.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/congressmen-introduce-bill-to-withhold-pay-from-congress-president-during-government-shutdowns?fbclid=IwAR0ZYZTUGFV3AwBEsBYRX8uzVS1we6EB5rxScrKak2R6qlbAMtzPKvfc7UQ

 

That would be a great idea.

 

If combined with legislation that politicians may not make profits from private business while in office. 

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Dredimus

As I read through the main title and most of the comments here I feel a bit of sorrow for the direction this country has been heading in. Most seem to forget that our system is not designed to oblige partisan politics. Those in power should not be using one item against another to obtain more power or belittle the other party. Our system was designed so that compromise should always be sought after.

  Sadly, the age of social media and 24/7 news cycles have done away with the word "compromise" as long as the other side has an opposing view. We as Americans have let this happen, we should all be ashamed of what we have become. A nation of instant gratification as long as it fits your own agenda. We all claim that we are independent, we claim to be patriots, we claim to hold freedom most high... until it requires giving up something. We do not want to give up our social media pages... newest tech... gps units... laptops... etc. but in order to keep those things we are fully capable of letting go of liberty and true freedom... and privacy. We have ingrained in our selves the ability to live a life full of fake gratification as long as it looks good on online... keeping up with the Jones looks a lot different now than it did in the 50's.

What will it take to stand up against a corrupt system of government that continually taints the ideas of the founding? What do we do in the face of tyranny wearing patriots clothing? What will it take to stand up against corporate entities that sell you at every turn and keep you addicted by any means while they feed you propaganda over and over until you become numb to the realities of their deeds?

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Gromdor
2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Sure the three you mentioned could but I wonder how many more could?

Honestly, none of the others matter when it comes to bringing it to the floor or signing it into law.

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Will Due
1 hour ago, Dredimus said:

As I read through the main title and most of the comments here I feel a bit of sorrow for the direction this country has been heading in. Most seem to forget that our system is not designed to oblige partisan politics. Those in power should not be using one item against another to obtain more power or belittle the other party. Our system was designed so that compromise should always be sought after.

  Sadly, the age of social media and 24/7 news cycles have done away with the word "compromise" as long as the other side has an opposing view. We as Americans have let this happen, we should all be ashamed of what we have become. A nation of instant gratification as long as it fits your own agenda. We all claim that we are independent, we claim to be patriots, we claim to hold freedom most high... until it requires giving up something. We do not want to give up our social media pages... newest tech... gps units... laptops... etc. but in order to keep those things we are fully capable of letting go of liberty and true freedom... and privacy. We have ingrained in our selves the ability to live a life full of fake gratification as long as it looks good on online... keeping up with the Jones looks a lot different now than it did in the 50's.

What will it take to stand up against a corrupt system of government that continually taints the ideas of the founding? What do we do in the face of tyranny wearing patriots clothing? What will it take to stand up against corporate entities that sell you at every turn and keep you addicted by any means while they feed you propaganda over and over until you become numb to the realities of their deeds?

 

What will it take?

Guts.

 

 

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Captain Risky
2 hours ago, Dredimus said:

As I read through the main title and most of the comments here I feel a bit of sorrow for the direction this country has been heading in. Most seem to forget that our system is not designed to oblige partisan politics. Those in power should not be using one item against another to obtain more power or belittle the other party. Our system was designed so that compromise should always be sought after.

  Sadly, the age of social media and 24/7 news cycles have done away with the word "compromise" as long as the other side has an opposing view. We as Americans have let this happen, we should all be ashamed of what we have become. A nation of instant gratification as long as it fits your own agenda. We all claim that we are independent, we claim to be patriots, we claim to hold freedom most high... until it requires giving up something. We do not want to give up our social media pages... newest tech... gps units... laptops... etc. but in order to keep those things we are fully capable of letting go of liberty and true freedom... and privacy. We have ingrained in our selves the ability to live a life full of fake gratification as long as it looks good on online... keeping up with the Jones looks a lot different now than it did in the 50's.

What will it take to stand up against a corrupt system of government that continually taints the ideas of the founding? What do we do in the face of tyranny wearing patriots clothing? What will it take to stand up against corporate entities that sell you at every turn and keep you addicted by any means while they feed you propaganda over and over until you become numb to the realities of their deeds?

compromise? well the republicans had the house for 2 years and they said no to Trump for his wall. honestly, Trump's own party were not wiling to fund his wall then the democrats should have for the sake of a healthy democracy? 

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