Extremists in America 2018

[Hankenhunter]

1 minute ago, Gunn said:

You’re blindly accepting ever word in that article as truth? Holy crap!

No way. I researched many other sites and chose this one because of the sheer amount of citations in the link. You still havnt proven why its a mole hill.

Did you even correlate what the extreme right was doing in your first link? Trying to take credit, then sowing discord through the press.  All the extremists did was make it harder to get to the truth. More fear! 

Your second link tells nothing other than he aint right in the head. Well no shiat. What stresses in his life caused him to imagine a demon was controlling him? 

Again in your third link, no background other than his stated mission to kill as many as he could in the shortest amount of time.

Down playing it will not make it go away. Is this the mole hill you want to die on?

[Gunn]

3 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

No way. I researched many other sites and chose this one because of the sheer amount of citations in the link. You still havnt proven why its a mole hill.

Did you even correlate what the extreme right was doing in your first link? Trying to take credit, then sowing discord through the press.  All the extremists did was make it harder to get to the truth. More fear! 

Your second link tells nothing other than he aint right in the head. Well no shiat. What stresses in his life caused him to imagine a demon was controlling him? 

Again in your third link, no background other than his stated mission to kill as many as he could in the shortest amount of time.

Down playing it will not make it go away. Is this the mole hill you want to die on?

Well I guess you didn’t do enough research then. Because I found more that refute the claim about Cruz being an extremist.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/feb/19/pamela-geller/no-proof-nikolas-cruz-was-motivated-islamic-or-lef/

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/florida-shooting-white-nationalists-415672

So the mountain out of a molehill I’m talking about here is specifically because Nikolas Cruz never had anything to do with any extremism. He is just a killer, a lone shooter. A deranged teenager getting back at people just because he couldn’t handle the way people treated him.

So when John Haltiwanger or the ADL page he links his info from, defines lone shooters like Cruz as an extremist, that’s a bunch of BS! When did Cruz ever claim he was an extremist? Based on what? Do you, John Haltiwanger or ADL got proof he was an extremist? If you do, I’m sure the Broward County Sheriff would probably like to know if you got proof, BTW.

When the media or organizations start adding deranged mentally ill killers like Cruz with other real bonifide extremist into the mix, that’s where it starts to grow into a mountain. Because there is no proof Cruz ever was an extremist, so the John Haltiwanger article and the ADL are being disingenuous with some of their proof.

[spartan max2]

6 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

How  could you possibly reach this conclusion from my post.. How about telling us why the shooter attacked the Parkland school. What was his motive? Your panicking because you think in some silly way that I'm pushing for gun control with my op,when that was the farthest  from my mind. I am focusing on the cause, not any particular weapon of choice. Every thing I posted was cited with links in the article. You know, the sentences that are highlighted in blue? Post some links to refute me instead of butt pulled lazy opinions.

You're blindly calling this a mole hill? Holy crap.

Because the whole premise of this thread is dumb. 

It's trying to create a narrative that "right wing violence is on the rise", therefore right wing ideology must be inherently violent, which means their policies are inherently bad, which means we do not have to actually think about and debate the policies. 

17,234 murders in 2017 and they want to do a microscope on 50 of those as a "rising problem" (the FBI has not released 2018 data yet,  I know the 50 is for 2018, though fun fact crime has been on the decline)

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/murder

And if that is not the purpose of the thread then please enlighten me to what is?

"What was his motive", what the hell is any lone shooters motive, they are obviously not sane lol. The problem will obviously always go deeper then we know, due to the fact sane people do not shoot places up.

 

And on another note when are we going to stop acting like the KKK is "far right"

White supermacy has nonething to do with wanting a small government and low taxes lol 

The media just repeats this over and over and we are suppose to accept it.

Edited February 8, 2019 by spartan max2

[Michelle]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

It's trying to create a narrative that "right wing violence is on the rise", therefore right wing ideology must be inherently violent, which means their policies are inherently bad, which means we do not have to actually think about and debate the policies.

They did the same thing during the Obama administration. "White hate groups" were supposedly forming out of the woodwork. Now, "white hate groups" are being encouraged under Trump.

If whatever president is in office encourages like minded people, then Obama caused the race riots. Haven't had an abundance of those lately now have we?

[spartan max2]

44 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Well I guess you didn’t do enough research then. Because I found more that refute the claim about Cruz being an extremist.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/feb/19/pamela-geller/no-proof-nikolas-cruz-was-motivated-islamic-or-lef/

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/florida-shooting-white-nationalists-415672

So the mountain out of a molehill I’m talking about here is specifically because Nikolas Cruz never had anything to do with any extremism. He is just a killer, a lone shooter. A deranged teenager getting back at people just because he couldn’t handle the way people treated him.

So when John Haltiwanger or the ADL page he links his info from, defines lone shooters like Cruz as an extremist, that’s a bunch of BS! When did Cruz ever claim he was an extremist? Based on what? Do you, John Haltiwanger or ADL got proof he was an extremist? If you do, I’m sure the Broward County Sheriff would probably like to know if you got proof, BTW.

When the media or organizations start adding deranged mentally ill killers like Cruz with other real bonifide extremist into the mix, that’s where it starts to grow into a mountain. Because there is no proof Cruz ever was an extremist, so the John Haltiwanger article and the ADL are being disingenuous with some of their proof.

They count anything as conservative as alt right. It honestly does not take much for them lol

I listen to Ben Shapiro's podcast, if I ever shot someone the media would claim I'm alt right . 

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by spartan max2

[Michelle]

15 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

They count anything as conservative as alt right. It honestly does not take much for them lol

I've been called almost everything but ma'am here. 

Anyone in my real life would laugh in their faces. 

[Hankenhunter]

3 hours ago, Gunn said:

Well I guess you didn’t do enough research then. Because I found more that refute the claim about Cruz being an extremist.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/feb/19/pamela-geller/no-proof-nikolas-cruz-was-motivated-islamic-or-lef/

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/florida-shooting-white-nationalists-415672

So the mountain out of a molehill I’m talking about here is specifically because Nikolas Cruz never had anything to do with any extremism. He is just a killer, a lone shooter. A deranged teenager getting back at people just because he couldn’t handle the way people treated him.

So when John Haltiwanger or the ADL page he links his info from, defines lone shooters like Cruz as an extremist, that’s a bunch of BS! When did Cruz ever claim he was an extremist? Based on what? Do you, John Haltiwanger or ADL got proof he was an extremist? If you do, I’m sure the Broward County Sheriff would probably like to know if you got proof, BTW.

When the media or organizations start adding deranged mentally ill killers like Cruz with other real bonifide extremist into the mix, that’s where it starts to grow into a mountain. Because there is no proof Cruz ever was an extremist, so the John Haltiwanger article and the ADL are being disingenuous with some of their proof.

So, your basing your whole argument on one guy? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-supremacist-murders-us-figures-double-2017-racist-hate-crime-las-vegas-shooting-extremist-a8165416.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1d51fc89085d

https://abcnews.go.com/US/majority-2017-extremist-murders-us-committed-wingers-report/story?id=52436886

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

https://globalriskinsights.com/2018/01/right-wing-extremism-united-states/

There's a thousand more out there, how many would you like? Molehill indeed.

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Hankenhunter

[Tatetopa]

21 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

The problem is, do the polititions know what they are creating? Do they know the effect it's having and are they using it as a weapon of advancement for the party? To create a feedback loop to lunacy? Scary thought. 

As a rule, we humans are short term thinkers rather than long term planners.  Some people may think if they can acquire enough now, that they will be in better shape when catastrophe hits in a decade or two.  

[Hankenhunter]

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Because the whole premise of this thread is dumb. 

It's trying to create a narrative that "right wing violence is on the rise", therefore right wing ideology must be inherently violent, which means their policies are inherently bad, which means we do not have to actually think about and debate the policies. 

17,234 murders in 2017 and they want to do a microscope on 50 of those as a "rising problem" (the FBI has not released 2018 data yet,  I know the 50 is for 2018, though fun fact crime has been on the decline)

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/murder

And if that is not the purpose of the thread then please enlighten me to what is?

"What was his motive", what the hell is any lone shooters motive, they are obviously not sane lol. The problem will obviously always go deeper then we know, due to the fact sane people do not shoot places up.

 

And on another note when are we going to stop acting like the KKK is "far right"

White supermacy has nonething to do with wanting a small government and low taxes lol 

The media just repeats this over and over and we are suppose to accept it.

Denial isn't a river in egypt. Read the links I posted farther below. The fact is that the gop is increasing violence in America with its fear tactics and tacitly supporting the extremists. 

[Gunn]

2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

So, your basing your whole argument on one guy? 

 

No because they’re also insinuating that all shootings in the past are extremist shootings, not just some of them, when a large number of them over the years were lone deranged killers killing people other then in the name of some kind of extremism.

There is no proof shooters like the Las Vegas shooter as being an extremist or any ties with extremism. How about both the Santa Fe High School shooter and the Sutherland Springs church shooter in Texas? Don’t recall any proof of them killing people as extremist either. So no, it’s not just about Cruz.

And BTW, I see you’re now going to ignore their false statement about Cruz being an extremist? And the fact you typed “no way’ and you typed about researching "many other sites and chose this one because of the sheer amount of citations in the link", in which you indicated that every bit of the article was all true, which includes their false accusation that Cruz as an extremist too? I guess you’re just going to whistle Dixie and ignore all that, huh? And move on with a “So, your basing your whole argument on one guy?” statement then.

Quote

There's a thousand more out there, how many would you like? Molehill indeed.

What did I say in my previous post to you? What did I clarify to you specifically what the "making a mountain out of a molehill" was all about? It was about the lone shooters like Cruz having no ties to extremism, but the media trying to add deranged individuals, lone shooters like Cruz to some of the real extremist shootings. Are you reading my posts? None of the links you posted has got anything to do with what I’ve been specifically talking about all along. Are you confusing your argument with me with somebody else here? I feel like you’re trying to draw me into a different type of argument with you. Why?

[Myles]

23 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I can view the article for some reason. It states there were 50 "domestic extremist killings in 2018 all linked to right wing groups"

The first or second opening paragraph 

"The report zeroes in on incidents such as the high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, in February 2018, and the mass shooting at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in October 2018."

 

These were both lone shooters. Seems kind of a stretch to tie them to "right wing groups". 

plus the narrative is that "right wing extremist violence" is heavily on the rise. 

350 million people.

50 deaths in one year is not an epidemic, specially when you're counting lone shooters...

the regular murder rate is much worse then this lol

 

just a typical hit piece on the right. 

i agree.   It would be the same as saying that most minorities lean left, so most inner city shootings are because of the left leaning.

[Farmer77]

48 minutes ago, Myles said:

i agree.   It would be the same as saying that most minorities lean left, so most inner city shootings are because of the left leaning.

Nah what @spartan max2 is missing is the in detail sudies of these shooters' social media lives. Damn near every single one of them was involved in some sort of fringe right wing group. I noticed the correlation last year but never found the energy to put together a thread about it. Honestly I assumed the MSM would but they never really did.

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Nah what @spartan max2 is missing is the in detail sudies of these shooters' social media lives. Damn near every single one of them was involved in some sort of fringe right wing group. I noticed the correlation last year but never found the energy to put together a thread about it. Honestly I assumed the MSM would but they never really did.

That may be.   But if you looked at the social media history of gang members, don't you think you would find allot of left leaning/right hating content?   

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

That may be.   But if you looked at the social media history of gang members, don't you think you would find allot of left leaning/right hating content?   

 Maybe, my point though is we actually have verified the rabbit holes that the shooters have gone down. Its not just that they liked some memes , they almost all had a somewhat regular level of contact with disturbingly dark "right wing" chat groups and forums.

I put the right wing in quotes because while its true theyre on the right of the political spectrum I am still very reticent to lump them in with the GOP - even if the GOP has less concerns than I about them

[Aquila King]

9 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Denial isn't a river in egypt. 

Dear God is that cheesy... 

[ian hacktorp]

Nope...the Left hasn't gone batshiit crazy.  Not at all...

Quote

"Now the left is dressing up as Mary and pretending to abort Baby Jesus!!!"

Edited February 10, 2019 by hacktorp

[Likely Guy]

7 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Nope...the Left hasn't gone batshiit crazy.  Not at all...

Where and when in the hell was that photo taken and what in the hell does it have to do with this discussion?

Edit: Argentina?

Edited February 11, 2019 by Likely Guy

[Aquila King]

10 hours ago, hacktorp said:

Okay, that's incredibly disrespectful and all, but still kinda hilarious. 

[acidhead]

 

[Vorg]

53 minutes ago, acidhead said:

 

Trump's right in this case. Some Antifa nut case's did hit a guy over the head with a bat and sticks for carrying an American flag. And he was a liberal. This is why many states are considering unmasking laws at protest. Antifa comes wearing mask to conceal identities knowing they are going to commit a crime. https://reason.com/2018/08/21/antifa-portland-evan-welch-violence

Edited July 27, 2019 by South Alabam

[Gromdor]

4 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Trump's right in this case. Some Antifa nutcase did hit a guy over the head with a bat for carrying an American flag. And he was a liberal. https://reason.com/2018/08/21/antifa-portland-evan-welch-violence

It would set a nice precedent.  People have been trying for ages to get American groups listed as terrorist organizations but the government was reluctant.  I know liberal groups were gnashing at the teeth to get the various right wing groups linked to all these mass shootings we have been having listed as terrorist groups.  Getting Antifa with it's 0 body count listed would definitely go a long way with getting groups like the KKK with it's death count in the thousands finally put on the list.  Similarly, members of social media groups could be listed as terrorists as well.  Almost every shooter seemed to have a 4chan account or Facebook account with like minded individuals egging them on.  The Border Agent Facebook group with it's jokes about shooting representatives and rape memes would be another example.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I don't like banning any group. It looks good in the beginning but the day would come that America would do what a lot of s__t hole countries do, ban opposition groups, that is, political parties or pacs that oppose the current regime.

It will happen someday, setting up someone's dictatorship, that's my opinion. This is what Maduro did in Venezuela to political opponents.
I think they should just address criminals that they catch. that works for me.