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Myles

Is everything fair game now?

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Tatetopa
10 hours ago, and then said:

Not in the media.  The media will have a seizure of moral outrage at anyone who says anything about the next prog prez.  Isn't hypocrisy wunnerful? 

Well not FOX news of course and they are part of the mainstream media and they will likely be instigating or cheering.   

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DieChecker
10 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

No, that is not 'obvious'.  First off, Ruby's example was to correct you that this isn't about 200 years ago (as if people today aren't affected by the way their ancestors were mistreated anyway).  Secondly, if you are even knowledgeable about Bridges then you know that this isn't an isolated incident with a few members of the KKK or something, this was white men and women and kids spitting on black kids going to their school, supported by state/local governments, requiring federal intervention.  Is our theory then that once the feds forced them to integrate that these people's racism miraculously changed and treated them equally?  Just as Ruby is still alive so are some of the spitters, and there were a lot more of them.  There's all kinds of information if you cared concerning racism at pretty much all levels of the criminal justice system, today, but if this is where you are after 50 years I don't think I can help you.

No, it is people's racism towards blacks that makes black names a problem; that's not even particularly controversial.  You do love yourself some stereotypes though; if we were to grade 'white culture' by the worst members of it, like you are trying to do here for 'black culture', our culture would be more disgusting by a safe margin.  There's a descriptor for, 'I'm justified in not calling you in for a job interview because your name is black sounding, which means to me you may have something in common with other black people who are criminals', but this is a family site so I won't go any further on that.

The TV Version of black culture?!  You know all these very specific things about black people, but don't actually live where there are very many of them?!  Ha, hard to believe you typed that after all holding forth in such negative detail on how you know them better than themselves; I believe the kids today call that a 'self own'. Regardless it certainly provides a lot of context and thoroughly answers everything I was curious about with you and how educated your opinions are, albeit probably not in the way you intended.

Let's see...

Ruby... blah, blah, blah... talk down, talk down.... prison system... blah...

Is there racism? Yes. Is it causing people to spit on little back girls. Not to my knowledge anymore. Does the prison system need reform? Yeah. Is part of the issue self imposed? Definately... 100%

"Black Names". Talk down... Talk down... blah. Blah.

Is there racism? Sure. Is black culture an actual self imposed problem for blacks. Yes. And they are going to ultimately have to fix it, or the issues will never go away.

"TV..." Talk down... Talk down... blah. Blah. Holier the thou... "Gotcha" remark... 

Whatever. I treat all people the same. I love my friend's black children. I have enjoyed the back and forth, but you clearly are "all in" on identity politics, which is just racism dressed up in favor of specific (Loud) minority groups.

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Myles
15 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Ha, it might make life easier on them too if you didn't act like you...  But do tell, this is Black History Month after all: how could little Ruby Bridges in my photo in my previous post have acted more like you to make life easier on her?  Short of painting her skin white?  Or if you mistakenly think that is too long ago and everything's all miraculously equaled out now in the last 60 years, how do black people with black-sounding names submitting resumes 'act more like you' to make life easier on them?  Change their names to 'John' and 'Bill' and 'Susie' to 'coddle' the prejudices, conscious or not, of some employers?

In order to get ahead, you increase your odds by conforming.    We would never hire a guy with tattoos on their face.   Probably missed out on some good workers, but it is what it is.   The name only matters if it is way out there.   Even then. maybe not.  

I think the biggest help with African American families would be financial responsibility help. 

A recent $1.3 million dollar study undertaken by Freddie Mac has revealed some surprising differences in credit scores between African-Americans and Caucasians.

The study compared the credit scores of members of each ethnic group, leading to data that shows Caucasians earning less than $25,000 per year were likely to have better credit scores than African-Americans earning between $65,000 and $75,000 per year.

Overall, the study found 27 percent of all credit reports belonging to Caucasians were poor, compared to 48 percent of those belonging to African-Americans. Only 28 percent of Hispanics were found to have bad credit.

The study involved 80,000 individuals. Researchers assigned a rating of “bad” to anyone who had two bills past due by more than 30 days in the past two years, a single bill past due by 90 days or more, a judgment against them, a lien against them or a bankruptcy.

 

https://www.badcredit.org/african-americans-are-more-likely-to-have-bad-credit/

 

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Farmer77
18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Overall, the study found 27 percent of all credit reports belonging to Caucasians were poor, compared to 48 percent of those belonging to African-Americans. Only 28 percent of Hispanics were found to have bad credit.

Itd be interesting to see a case study of where the percentages of each racial group started out financially. 

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I have enjoyed the back and forth, but you clearly are "all in" on identity politics, which is just racism dressed up in favor of specific (Loud) minority groups.

That's fine, it's been fun, I always like to hear other people's views.  I don't treat all people 'the same' because people's situations are not the same, like your friend that you helped out of an abusive relationship.  I'm not 'all in' on identity politics, this appears to just be a continuation of you assigning people you know very little about to your stereotypical mental categories, reality (or apparently doing much investigation beyond what you see on the tube) be damned.  Ha, talking down and holier than thou?  Need a mirror?  At least I'm pointing it at you, based on what you've said, and not a whole race of people.

I've asked you specific questions about your comments that you don't answer so difficult to know fully what your position even is (helping makes you 'less', 'groveling', 'more' protections) and where you're coming from.  I will admit that your assignment of the blame for black people with black-sounding names not getting interviews to black people/culture themselves is rather ridiculous in my view, and certainly strains the extent to which you really do support all people being treated the same.  Treat them the same unless they have the wrong name?

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Myles
18 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Itd be interesting to see a case study of where the percentages of each racial group started out financially. 

It would.   I imagine blacks and hispanics would be similar.  

But the study does show, without any racial piece being included, that black people do a much worse job handling their finances.  

It should be easy to grasp that paying interest and late fees on credit card purchases will make everything you bought cost 25-30% more.  

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Farmer77
Just now, Myles said:

It should be easy to grasp that paying interest and late fees on credit card purchases will make everything you bought cost 25-30% more.  

Agreed but, and i am talking from personal experience, the poverty cycle actually changes the way your brain functions. When its really bad you have to learn to prioritize and if you can put off a payment to feed your family that week thats what you do. Then each time you make that decision your credit is being hurt. No need to even involve credit cards, we can talk basics like utilities, child and healthcare.

Once that fight or flight way of living is ingrained in you its really hard to break out of it. Ive admittedly never been good with money but losing my income for those couple of years due to MS really was eye opening.

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Farmer77
Myles
7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Agreed but, and i am talking from personal experience, the poverty cycle actually changes the way your brain functions. When its really bad you have to learn to prioritize and if you can put off a payment to feed your family that week thats what you do. Then each time you make that decision your credit is being hurt. No need to even involve credit cards, we can talk basics like utilities, child and healthcare.

Once that fight or flight way of living is ingrained in you its really hard to break out of it. Ive admittedly never been good with money but losing my income for those couple of years due to MS really was eye opening.

That may be part of it, but whatever the reason, the black culture needs to address it.

This debunks that a little bit:

Caucasians earning less than $25,000 per year were likely to have better credit scores than African-Americans earning between $65,000 and $75,000 per year.

Those earning less than $25,000 per year are the ones who should be missing payments.   Does the brain development only affect blacks?  

 

 

  

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Myles said:

Caucasians earning less than $25,000 per year were likely to have better credit scores than African-Americans earning between $65,000 and $75,000 per year.

Those earning less than $25,000 per year are the ones who should be missing payments.   Does the brain development only affect blacks?  

No but again we dont know out of the 80,000 people this is based on what percentages started out in poverty type situations.

 

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Myles
15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No but again we dont know out of the 80,000 people this is based on what percentages started out in poverty type situations.

 

That's true, but it shows that black people  are not good with their finances.   

I would think that comparing to another minority such as Hispanics would show that black people are way behind on financial sense. 

27 percent of all credit reports belonging to Caucasians were poor, compared to 48 percent of those belonging to African-Americans. Only 28 percent of Hispanics

 

 

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Myles
15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

No but again we dont know out of the 80,000 people this is based on what percentages started out in poverty type situations.

 

That's true, but it shows that black people  are not good with their finances.   

I would think that comparing to another minority such as Hispanics would show that black people are way behind on financial sense. 

27 percent of all credit reports belonging to Caucasians were poor, compared to 48 percent of those belonging to African-Americans. Only 28 percent of Hispanics

 

 

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Liquid Gardens

Racial disparities in credit scores seems to have a few causes.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-credit-score-is-racist-heres-why

"For decades, banks have systematically redlined black and Latino neighborhoods, refusing to make conventional loans or locate branches in non-white and lower-income areas, notwithstanding lawsthat obligate banks to meet the credit needs of all communities they serve, consistent with safe and sound banking operations."

"Starting in the 1990s, financial institutions began flooding historically-redlined neighborhoods with predatory mortgages that ultimately led to the meltdown of the global economy. Waves of foreclosures hammered neighborhoods of color for more than a decade before the crash and black and Latino Americans bore the brunt of the ensuing foreclosure crisis, recession and spiking unemployment. Droves of people turned to high-rate credit cards to cover even basic expenses, contributing to the consumer debt crisis and spawning a bottom-feeding debt-buying industry that purchases old debts on the cheap and then uses the courts to extract judgments disproportionately from people and communities of color. These judgments are then listed in their credit reports, which also brings down their credit scores, in turn limiting a whole range of opportunities."

 

It seems more complicated than 'black (and apparently Latino) culture needs to address it'.  If one is of the opinion that there's something shady or negative about 'black culture' then it seems, in a far more objective sense at least to me, we'd have to admit that 'bank culture' is far shadier.

 

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Farmer77
5 minutes ago, Myles said:

That's true, but it shows that black people  are not good with their finances.   

I would think that comparing to another minority such as Hispanics would show that black people are way behind on financial sense. 

27 percent of all credit reports belonging to Caucasians were poor, compared to 48 percent of those belonging to African-Americans. Only 28 percent of Hispanics

 

 

I think with any statistic, kinda like prison population, there are entirely too many factors to make sweeping generalizations . Especially when using a study that only sourced 80K people AND was done in 1999.

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Myles
6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I think with any statistic, kinda like prison population, there are entirely too many factors to make sweeping generalizations . Especially when using a study that only sourced 80K people AND was done in 1999.

You can make similar claims to any study.  

This was one that I found that had the least, if any, racial influence.   It also fits what we know.  It's not s secret that many black people are not good with money.   They spend more on apparel, more on vehicles and more on beauty supplies.

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OverSword
On 2/9/2019 at 6:44 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

Ha, which you can of course do because of white privilege. 

I say enough about white privilege. 

How about hourglass big boob privilege?  How about Asian privilege, they make more that other races on average, is it because of skin color? how about handsome muscular male privilege?  How about straight teeth privilege?  How about smarter than most people privilege?  How about a full head of hair privilege?  Why are none of these legs up called to question and made into a target for shaming people for a thing they have no control over?

That's my white, full head of hair, straightish teeth well proportioned privilege 2 cents worth on that one. :P

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OverSword
On 2/9/2019 at 7:21 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

Similarly I have the 'privilege' of being able to laugh off people's upset and pearl-clutching at the mention of 'white privilege' because its mention doesn't upset me.  Get it? 

As indicated above, because it's a false way to shame and attack individuals for a trait attributable to a group, similar to saying all this type of person steal or all that type of person are too lazy to steal.  Most of the people in the USA living below the poverty line are, guess what?  Caucasian.   

Edited by OverSword
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Michelle
15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That's my white, full head of hair, straightish teeth well proportioned privilege 2 cents worth on that one. :P

Studies have shown tall people have an advantage too.

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OverSword
1 minute ago, Michelle said:

Studies have shown tall people have an advantage too.

6 feet baby.

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Michelle
Just now, OverSword said:

6 feet baby.

You're quite the package. :lol:

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OverSword
2 minutes ago, Michelle said:

You're quite the package. :lol:

Or pile, depending on who you ask.

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Dumbledore the Awesome
On 11/02/2019 at 12:43 PM, DieChecker said:

Bull. People in general hate change, and those who have power will resist. It is a human failing, not a religious one.

I think it is due to scriptures linking sexual immorality with things like menstruating in the village, premarital sex, and homosexual behavior. Which were real issues 3000 years ago (kinda...).

Where in the scriptures does it say black prople are bad? I'm not sure I've read that.

And what was it he said? Judge people off the content of their character, not their skin. Modern liberalism, and progressivism, are about skin color, and other physical variables. Dr King would be ashamed of most liberals and Identity Politics.

I found long ago that people who blame Christianity for everything simply insist that you can't try to look at it in any kind of historical context or any consideration of who particular parts might have been aimed at and their particular situation; you have to believe the whole thing in its entirety word for word. :unsure: As for attitudes towards other races; well, remember that the OT was intended for a Jewish audience, and they, even if it may be horribly Incorrect to say it now, were a famously chauvinistic people. The writers of the Bible, and Jesus himself, may well have come into contact with people from other places, they may well have met people from Africa, but Jesus's teaching had nothing whatsoever about any presumption that any one race was superior; just the opposite in fact, the whole point of it was inclusiveness - that it was a message for everyone. I suppose the assumption that Christianity must be racist comes from the old ideas of missionaries spreading the Word among the Black People in Africa, but black communities (if that's still the Correct phrase) do seem to still be among the highest percentages of churchgoers, don't they. 

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Liquid Gardens
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

As indicated above, because it's a false way to shame and attack individuals for a trait attributable to a group, similar to saying all this type of person steal or all that type of person are too lazy to steal.  Most of the people in the USA living below the poverty line are, guess what?  Caucasian.   

Sure, but we have to separate the thing from how it is used or misused, there really isn't anything in the definition or description of white privilege that includes shaming, even though you are right that it is used as a weapon.  Racism, sexism, all kind of isms exist and those who are not subject to those because they are on the opposite side of the ism have the 'privilege' of not being affected by it and can 'laugh it off', since they aren't directly affected by it.  Doesn't mean all white people share the blame for something or anything like that, doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of black people who have got it better than lots of white people, it's that all white people get to avoid anti-black racism, all men get to avoid sexism, etc, by definition.  

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OverSword
13 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Sure, but we have to separate the thing from how it is used or misused, there really isn't anything in the definition or description of white privilege that includes shaming, even though you are right that it is used as a weapon.  Racism, sexism, all kind of isms exist and those who are not subject to those because they are on the opposite side of the ism have the 'privilege' of not being affected by it and can 'laugh it off', since they aren't directly affected by it.  Doesn't mean all white people share the blame for something or anything like that, doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of black people who have got it better than lots of white people, it's that all white people get to avoid anti-black racism, all men get to avoid sexism, etc, by definition.  

I have no doubt that privilege of all kinds including being white is real.  I also believe that it is out of a person's control.  Maybe pointing it out is okay from the aspect of making society aware of it for the goal of evening things out but to me it seems to build more resentment on both sides than anything.  Could be that's just my white point of view I suppose.

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I have no doubt that privilege of all kinds including being white is real.  I also believe that it is out of a person's control.  Maybe pointing it out is okay from the aspect of making society aware of it for the goal of evening things out but to me it seems to build more resentment on both sides than anything.  Could be that's just my white point of view I suppose.

My white point of view agrees with yours, in that it does build resentment and is probably over-used by some.  I think some of it overlaps with what some people refer to as 'micro-aggressions' which I don't know much about, but if they're micro then they should logically cause micro-harm so I for now micro-care about them.  But white dudes providing instruction on black people and their 'culture' (whatever that is) usually by default is the stinky kind of privilege.  I wouldn't ever think I know much at all what's it's like to be a white woman, I've been harshly corrected a few times on that, I'm certainly not going to think I've got a much better ground for understanding what it's like to be a black person especially in the US.

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