Deranged Democrat

[jmccr8]

2 hours ago, Will Due said:

4 hours ago, Gromdor said:

aggravate this situation

 

You want to know what has aggravated this situation as to why all of a sudden, hundreds of thousands of people south of the border are obsessively doing everything they can to get into this country?

Success.

The success everyone is experiencing here economically

Hi Will

 Success like most things is subjective, What measure are you using that data supports? I am highly suspicious of your claim, you know when I see a cow with a full udder I make sure the calves are fed first and then I take my cream.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

I have no idea how I got in this thread. I signed in and this is where it opened? Unexplained mystery or can we chalk it up to god did it?

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

On 4/2/2019 at 12:26 AM, Tatetopa said:

Yeah, I've been thinking about that in the history of conservatives.  That history is not about freedom, it is about opposition to change.

There were conservatives in 1776.  They were opposed to breaking away from England.  They supported the monarchy and nobility.   They wanted no change.

"Constitution, Who needs one of those?  We have gotten along in England for  a thousand years without one."

"Bill of Rights, why do we need free speech of the right to bear arms? If we didn't have the king and the nobles to guide the lower classes, it would be anarchy."

If conservatives had been stronger, the liberals of the day; Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Franklin and others would have been executed or rotting on prison ships like the Jacobites in Scotland.

200 years later, conservatives kind of like the idea of freedom and practically worship the founding fathers as if they were their own.  Reminds me of Jesus, the liberal of his day, crucified by the conservatives and big government, yet worshiped now.  At least in name, to actually live life the way he said, well he couldn't have actually meant that could he?  That would disturb the established order.

No nobility?  How do we know who is superior in society, how does everyone know his place?    Money of course.  A reasonable substitute.  Being born rich is just as good a measure as being born a lord.

Now DHS has become 20 years old, getting close enough to be recognized as established order by conservatives. It continues to collect data and quietly grows. Doesn't seem to be a concern. 

From comments on this website, conservatives are not really sold on the liberal idea of separation of powers yet.   They seem to favor a strong unitary executive who doesn't need to ask anything, just order actions for the good of the people.  Here is that concept again relying on a powerful leader to tell the people what to do.  I think it wouldn't be too far a stretch for conservatives to support a military dictatorship or a totalitarian regime, just as long as they didn't give medical care or a basic income to the underclass.

I think conservatives yearn for an established rank  and place in society with the benefits appertaining to that rank.  I think they like to know their place and feel better if they are a rung or two above the  hoi polloi.

Well how about the Second Amendment and our right to own assault rifles that we so jealously guard?.  That must tell everyone that conservatives are willing to die for their freedom.  Nope.  You are willing to rise up and die against a government that wants to change the established order.  Deep down in your hearts, it is fear of and resistance to change not freedom that propels you. 

Incendiary enough fore you Likely?  

Hi Tatetopa

 Much respect to you as a person. I swore an oath of allegiance to a woman I don't know but it is a lifelong commitment that I will challenge to a point but am owned by the flavor of the day. To me, they are all ***** masters and when one drops the whip someone else will step up, I worked at our provincial legislative buildings as well as had access to many other buildings because I worked maintenance. Blue jeans or work pants seem to be a barrier to understanding what/who people think about what they see going on around them.

End point, would I fight against things in my cultural settings, yes. Would I exceed my known limits in rights argue and educate others in achieving a positive end? Yes, with enthusiasm.

But I would never disgrace my family or friends by militant acts against my country, like my friend used to say about his wife" I am in love with a woman I can't stand"

jmccr8  

[Jerry Gallo]

8 hours ago, Gromdor said:

You do realize I'm a Gulf War Vet.  Stop trying to tie/use me or my fellow soldiers to an issue we have nothing to do with.  Saying you care for immigrants less than vets is meaningless if you don't care for vets at all.  Maybe once I see an $8 billion bill to help homeless vets, I'll change my tune.  But right now you are just another fellow full of "thoughts and prayers".

As for the immigrants.  Right now they are being released in the thousands in Texas or kept under a bridge.  If you are fine with that then forget about sending them to Iowa.  A wall is pointless.  Maybe if Trump started it two years ago when Republicans controlled the house and immigration was at a historic low then parts of it might be up.  But his failure to do anything but aggravate this situation is what led us to this point.

(Why the snooty-ness with pig farming btw?  Too proud to do a job that gets your hands dirty?) 

I've worked on a farm as a teenager, hardest work I ever did in my life. Nothing snooty on my end, the difference between us is that I would never hold an asylum seeker (if that is truly what they are) hostage to do a job I currently wouldn't do. I certainly wouldn't present pig farming in Iowa as Heaven when the locals are fleeing Heaven for dysfunctional states like Illinois and Minnesota. They do jobs we won't do, so let's exploit that for our benefit.

Your family situation likely shapes your thought processes and I can respect that. And I respect your service. So let me ask you this question. While in the Gulf War, how did you assess the residents over there? Of course some of those people were enemy combatants, but some were just ordinary innocent civilians. Did you operate on the assumption that all were innocent, putting yourself in harms way? Or did you have to vet them to determine who deserved a bullet and who deserved help? At our border, at 100K per month, we're assuming none are enemy combatants. That's potentially no less dangerous than what you faced in war. No less dangerous than taking the front door to our homes off the hinges letting anyone in. DMZ's, checkpoints, gates, fences and walls have been around long before you and I. It isn't Trump's fault he wants more of them, it's those who think that suddenly those things aren't necessary, even as those wanting through are at historically high levels.

The more you post, the more common you are among the Trump haters. I think your ultimate gripe is that when it comes to trade, farmers have enjoyed the benefit of trade wars, tariffs, and subsidies for a while. Revered occupation like teaching, where "we're educating your kids" has become "we're providing the food you eat" - words you said early on. Now the playing (growing) field is a little more volatile, farmers experiencing what other indistries have for far longer, the free pass has been rescinded along with a check to help with the transition. The labor is just a tangent issue, a band-aid to cover the wound Trump opened by trying to level the field for all industries at the farmer's expense. Wish you had the courage to admit that from the onset, would have made for a much more efficient back and forth.

You are right about one thing, I am a fellow full of thoughts and prayers and I don't take that as the insult you intended.  

[Jerry Gallo]

5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Will

 Success like most things is subjective, What measure are you using that data supports? I am highly suspicious of your claim, you know when I see a cow with a full udder I make sure the calves are fed first and then I take my cream.

jmccr8

Success is less subjective than it is individualized, yes? Also, are all the calves fed simultaneously and equally? Seems like some calves have been well fed, always first to the teat. Which is great until it isn't the standard anymore.

[Gromdor]

9 hours ago, and then said:

THIS^ tells me everything I'll ever need to know about you as an American.  Buh Bye.

Truth hurts, doesn't it?  Until Americans demonstrate an ability and desire to fill these agriculture jobs, the fact stands that they have no value in it.  Perhaps you should start educating people to the fact that no job is "beneath" someone.  Pork chops don't come from the pork chop fairy after all.

[Setton]

11 hours ago, and then said:

THIS^ tells me everything I'll ever need to know about you as an American.  Buh Bye.

Ah the traditional and then response: when out of your depth, remove all context and bash with pseudo-patriotism. 

[Tatetopa]

10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

To me, they are all ***** masters and when one drops the whip someone else will step up,

This is it for me.  I post some of this stuff out of frustration.  Liberals will tell anyone who listens that conservatives are evil because of ... some list of reasons.  Conservatives will do the same, liberals hate our country because .... some list of reasons.  To anybody not in one camp or the other they seem much the same, vilifying the opposition for a list of crimes that their side commits too.  And the true believers on both sides seldom have enough self awareness to see how much the same they all are, and that all crimes are wrong, not just the ones from the other side.

 

 

[Will Due]

13 hours ago, Gromdor said:

economic success. 

 

The economic success we're enjoying, (and attracting illegal immigrants) is occuring because of the hard policy decisions of Donald Trump. Yes, these policies are going to hurt some. But that will only be temporary.

Sickness (caused by the government policies of false liberalism) requires an operation that is invasive and causes pain to eradicate.

True liberalism does not harm people by giving them things they don't need which then ends up spoiling them and depriving them of the economic success they would otherwise earn on their own.

 

 

[Gromdor]

12 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

The economic success we're enjoying, (and attracting illegal immigrants) is occuring because of the hard policy decisions of Donald Trump. Yes, these policies are going to hurt some. But that will only be temporary.

Sickness (caused by the government policies of false liberalism) requires an operation that is invasive and causes pain to eradicate.

True liberalism does not harm people by giving them things they don't need which then ends up spoiling them and depriving them of the economic success they would otherwise earn on their own.

 

 

Eh, if this is success then I would hate to see what your version of failure is.

Next time I go to a bar and see some crying farmer that lost his family farm, I'll pat him on the back and tell him that Will Due said it was just temporary and I'm sure he will get it back. 

[Will Due]

14 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

he will get it back. 

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

 

[Jerry Gallo]

16 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

 

It does! If we expand our circle a bit, the crying farmer might be sitting next to the crying coal miner, the crying baker, and a gun owner holding back tears knowing one day he may not be able to protect his family from the common criminal.

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

It does! If we expand our circle a bit, the crying farmer might be sitting next to the crying coal miner, the crying baker, and a gun owner holding back tears knowing one day he may not be able to protect his family from the common criminal.

Wow that is idiotic. Youre honestly comparing people losing their livelihoods to pansies crying because they arent smart enough to figure out means of defense without firearms? WOW

[Jerry Gallo]

43 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Wow that is idiotic. Youre honestly comparing people losing their livelihoods to pansies crying because they arent smart enough to figure out means of defense without firearms? WOW

Some might say the same thing about farmers, not smart enough to figure out how to maintain their livelihood. The difference is, the coal miner and the baker lost theirs because of gov't intervention. The farmer couldn't figure it out WITH gov't intervention.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Some might say the same thing about farmers, not smart enough to figure out how to maintain their livelihood. The difference is, the coal miner and the baker lost theirs because of gov't intervention. The farmer couldn't figure it out WITH gov't intervention.

 

Not to mention that it's the goal of deranged liberalism for everyone to be without a job and on the government dole.

 

 

[Vorg]

The title say Deranged Democrat, not Democrats. I believe it is fine the way it is.

Edited April 4, 2019 by South Alabam

[aztek]

40 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Not to mention that it's the goal of deranged liberalism for everyone to be without a job and on the government dole.

 

 

i'm no fan of liberals,  but i do not think they are stupid,  i'm sure their plan is more sinister than just seeing people unemployed,  they know someone has to pay taxes into the system,   i can't figure what their end game is, but it looks to me like a few ultra rich, who we do not even know exist, had a bet, how bad can you screw up the world. how much can one twist it and turn upside down,  and they pulling strings to achieve it, their influence is in msm, court system, gvmnt, ...

[Farmer77]

49 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Some might say the same thing about farmers, not smart enough to figure out how to maintain their livelihood. The difference is, the coal miner and the baker lost theirs because of gov't intervention. The farmer couldn't figure it out WITH gov't intervention.

Damn I didnt think you could top your previous post and yet here we are

Trump's Trade War Has Hurt Midwestern Farmers. Now, They're Fighting Back. (PSSSST! Thats government intervention) 

Trump Promised to Bring Back Coal. It’s Declining Again (ditto above, BUT youll note the intervention was Trump trying to help, its not)

 

 

[Jerry Gallo]

31 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Damn I didnt think you could top your previous post and yet here we are

Trump's Trade War Has Hurt Midwestern Farmers. Now, They're Fighting Back. (PSSSST! Thats government intervention) 

Trump Promised to Bring Back Coal. It’s Declining Again (ditto above, BUT youll note the intervention was Trump trying to help, its not)

 

 

And here is an article discussing the decline in farming since 2013. (Psst...that was years before Trump was elected.) You'll note this quote, which if you disagree, you can take it up with the author. (Psst...the article was from 2016, also before Trump was elected.

"Grain prices have sunk 50 percent or more since 2012, when drought drove prices to record highs."

So, what is it? You want prices to remain at record highs in spite of the market for corn? You want someone else to plan ahead for the inevitable day when you are no longer able to extort higher fees from buyers due to drought? What were the workers being paid per hour during these record highs, the same or more? It's rhetorical, we know it was likely the same hourly rate. Industries left alone rise and fall all the time. Nothing about farming is Trump's fault exclusively, he's just a convenient excuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2016/03/14/cash-strapped-farmers-struggle-pay-cropland-rents/81170452/

And here's an article about Trump for you...he gave you $12B and you still p*** and moan. What did Obama do for coal miners?

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/trade-war-trump-farmers-12-billion-aid/

As for the coal industry, we are not talking about what Trump has promised to do. We're talking facts about coal miners suffering from Obama's attempt to destroy (his word was bankrupt) the coal industry for no other reason than to placate liberal tree huggers. Guarantee no one was whimpering about them crying in a bar or pot-shotting people about success or failure when those mines were closed and those families were struggling. Liberalism is inconsistent and filled with hypocrisy just like this every single day. 

[Jerry Gallo]

53 minutes ago, aztek said:

i'm no fan of liberals,  but i do not think they are stupid,  i'm sure their plan is more sinister than just seeing people unemployed,  they know someone has to pay taxes into the system,   i can't figure what their end game is, but it looks to me like a few ultra rich, who we do not even know exist, had a bet, how bad can you screw up the world. how much can one twist it and turn upside down,  and they pulling strings to achieve it, their influence is in msm, court system, gvmnt, ...

The goal is simple...get enough people dependent on government so that Democrats have a permanent ruling class that doesn't have to lift a finger for the voters. Once they have that, it'll just be threats to turn off the aide. Look at any major urban city, Democrats leadership and dire circumstances for decades. Look at the welfare system, five decades and trillions spent and no real improvement for those in need. 

[Gromdor]

15 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

And here is an article discussing the decline in farming since 2013. (Psst...that was years before Trump was elected.) You'll note this quote, which if you disagree, you can take it up with the author. (Psst...the article was from 2016, also before Trump was elected.

"Grain prices have sunk 50 percent or more since 2012, when drought drove prices to record highs."

So, what is it? You want prices to remain at record highs in spite of the market for corn? You want someone else to plan ahead for the inevitable day when you are no longer able to extort higher fees from buyers due to drought? What were the workers being paid per hour during these record highs, the same or more? It's rhetorical, we know it was likely the same hourly rate. Industries left alone rise and fall all the time. Nothing about farming is Trump's fault exclusively, he's just a convenient excuse.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2016/03/14/cash-strapped-farmers-struggle-pay-cropland-rents/81170452/

And here's an article about Trump for you...he gave you $12B and you still p*** and moan. What did Obama do for coal miners?

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/trade-war-trump-farmers-12-billion-aid/

As for the coal industry, we are not talking about what Trump has promised to do. We're talking facts about coal miners suffering from Obama's attempt to destroy (his word was bankrupt) the coal industry for no other reason than to placate liberal tree huggers. Guarantee no one was whimpering about them crying in a bar or pot-shotting people about success or failure when those mines were closed and those families were struggling. Liberalism is inconsistent and filled with hypocrisy just like this every single day. 

The best part is both the farmers and coal miners voted for Trump in 2016 thinking Trump would help them. 

P.S.  The $12 billion bailout/welfare money wasn't enough.  Send more!  Signed: Republican voting farmers. 

[aztek]

17 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

The goal is simple...get enough people dependent on government so that Democrats have a permanent ruling class that doesn't have to lift a finger for the voters. Once they have that, it'll just be threats to turn off the aide. Look at any major urban city, Democrats leadership and dire circumstances for decades. Look at the welfare system, five decades and trillions spent and no real improvement for those in need. 

with UBI they push,  that amount will grow like mushrooms after rain, it is not sustainable, they will have to tax working people to twice or three times the rate, how long will it take for civil disobedience or civil war to brake out under such conditions?   no way they do not see it, they want to get to a point of civil war, 

[Jerry Gallo]

12 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

The best part is both the farmers and coal miners voted for Trump in 2016 thinking Trump would help them. 

P.S.  The $12 billion bailout/welfare money wasn't enough.  Send more!  Signed: Republican voting farmers. 

You can't be too upset with someone who callously used you for self-gain when you voted for him under the same principle.

 

[Jerry Gallo]

7 minutes ago, aztek said:

with UBI they push,  that amount will grow like mushrooms after rain, it is not sustainable, they will have to tax working people to twice or three times the rate, how long will it take for civil disobedience or civil war to brake out under such conditions?   no way they do not see it, they want to get to a point of civil war, 

Fortunately there are enough special interests funding them that won't let this get too far out of control. Remember when Bill Maher flipped his nutty about taxes? It's fine and well when it's someone else, but vanity and self-preservation within the ranks is still prevalent. Also see socialist Bernie with this three houses. The biggest lie out there is the one the intelligent liberal mind falls for when their own emotions scream it in their ear. 

[RAyMO]

31 minutes ago, Jerry Gallo said:

Look at the welfare system, five decades and trillions spent and no real improvement for those in need.

The requirement for a welfare state is a direct result of the societal and economic model under which must countries including the US operate. The existence of the welfare state is nothing more than governments owning up to that fact. To do otherwise is both to deny the societal and economic model you glamourise, and  potentially to diminish its longevity.