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Relam

Multiethnicity good or bad?

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Relam

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

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Aquila King

It shouldn't even matter how ethnically diverse we are, though unfortunately to a lot of people here it does... <_<

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acidhead

Multi national culturalism is a myth. Everybody  is exactly the same.

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and then
12 minutes ago, Relam said:

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

OUTSTANDING question!  I'm a guy who grew up in the "Old South" of the U.S.  Civil rights issues were being bled for when I was a little boy and schools were being widely integrated when I was an elementary/middle schooler - grades 4-8 or so.  Seeing a mixed race couple was a rarity at that time and often would lead to violence.  Twenty years later it was not only commonly accepted, it didn't even raise eyebrows in most circles.  THAT is in the most racially divided portion of America.  Multiethnicity is an overall positive for America WHEN the people desire to be Americans first and not "hyphenated" sub-classes of citizens.  Unfortunately, there is a movement growing here now that seeks division on everything from race to sex to age.  Nationalism is resurgent due to the push by part of the body politic to blend into the globalist movement.  About half of us are ready to struggle to keep our sovereignty and the other half just seek approval and a free ride at other's expense.  

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, Relam said:

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

You have several thousand years of history and tradition, we have a couple of hundred.  You have different languages, histories and cultures in distances so short that a large state would hold several.  In our experience, many individuals from many cultures have been thrown together to survive and thrive.  We  carry some of those differences with us and we still have Bobbie Burns night, and Oktoberfest, St. Patrick,s Day, Polish Day, Cinco de Mayo, and many other holidays to celebrate where we came from.  We share our families and customs with each other and become Americans in the process.

It is not easy for us, it will not be easy for you.  I think we had an advantage.  If you live in France or Germany for example, a person from a different ethnicity and country is moving into your culture, In America during the early years, we had all but wiped out the original inhabitants, so we could put our mark, a European mark on the country.  

We thrived and absorbed in a land open and with seemingly boundless opportunity.  You have established customs and territories and social expectations.   When an Algerian person moves to France or an Ethiopian moves to Sweden,  it is more about being absorbed than sharing anything of their originating culture.

I wish you luck. You can find the value in the effort.  Your world expands.  Think about Hedeby and other Viking trading centers of 1000 years ago. Almost half of the remains found were travelers from somewhere else in those trading centers. They were vibrant and alive and hooked into world commerce.  Seemingly they got along.  You can enjoy it too.  Best Wishes.

 

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Piney
4 hours ago, Relam said:

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

I don't even think about it and I'm mixed. At one time I hated mixed relationships because I was the product of one and was a aberration to either side as a kid.

America did try to destroy our culture and breed us out so I appreciate other non-European people crashing in en mass and causing consternation for many whites.  :yes:

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Piney
10 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

Nationalism is an excuse for racism, pure and simple.

:nw:  

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third_eye

Met an American on holiday here who just put it all nicely in a few words, " America is just a dream, an American Dream .... "

~

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Robotic Jew

Nationalism in itself is a worthless concept. We should all be striving for the day we can all function together under the label of "human" and not be defined by our geography and/or ethnicity.

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Will Due
8 hours ago, Relam said:

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

 

Multiethnicity is good. It's one of the greatest things about the country I live in and love.

What's bad is this.

There's a large swath of politically prominent people in my country who openly and aggressively support the breaking of our immigration laws. Such as entering our country without authority illegally. 

 

 

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Big Jim
55 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Multiethnicity is good. It's one of the greatest things about the country I live in and love.

I agree.  But we can't allow our multiethnic culture to Balkanize into opposing groups instead of trying to live together.   The old metaphor of a melting pot was a good one.  What we're heading towards is more like one of those cocktails that separate into layers.  We have little enclaves of various ethnicities and national groups who have more affinity and loyalty to their origins than they do to America.  

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Big Jim
6 hours ago, Emma_Acid said:

Nationalism is an excuse for racism, pure and simple.

Nations and races are two different things.  When someone becomes an American they don't change their race.  Nations are political constructs, race is the way we are born.  They are not interchangeable.  Most modern nations are a collection of various races, with America being the most diverse example.  So having pride in one's country is not to be construed as being against other races.  I can't say I'm pro American and be against Blacks or Asians or any other race because America has citizens of all races.  But I can say I want people to follow our laws.  I can say that we are not obligated to accept the unchecked flow of foreign nationalists into our country.  And so can the English, and French, Swedes and Germans, etc.  Loving our countries and wanting to keep some of our traditional identity does not make us racist.  If I and a racially diverse group of my fellow Americans profess love of our country together which of us would you say is racist?

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Will Due
30 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

I agree.  But we can't allow our multiethnic culture to Balkanize into opposing groups instead of trying to live together.   The old metaphor of a melting pot was a good one.  What we're heading towards is more like one of those cocktails that separate into layers.  We have little enclaves of various ethnicities and national groups who have more affinity and loyalty to their origins than they do to America.  

 

I'm an immigrant myself. My parents brought me here when I was 5 back in '63.

I experienced the Balkanization you mentioned personally. My parents found it difficult to assimilate America's culture and preferred to associate mostly within our immigrant community. I often felt divided culturally.

During my childhood, this caused some confusion but not nearly enough to keep myself and my siblings from eventually becoming fully integrated as Americans. I think this experience is universal with all immigrants. Cultural resolution is generational.

So the issue of Balkanization isn't with the immigrants. It's with our political leadership.

And with the help of their cohorts in the media they (for self-serving gain) very effectively martial certain elements of our society to blindly work towards achieving their corrupt personal goals while those in control of the media cover it all up. 

In my opinion the only solution to this phenomenon lies with a system of vetting or qualifying candidates for office and political appointment in order to guarantee that these people morally and ethically qualify to hold leadership authority BEFORE they are allowed to be a candidate or a potential bureacratic appointee. For the FBI or the DOJ for example.

Unfortunately, this system is like that proverbial child who's existence hasn't even been conceived of yet, let alone be drawn up by someone in a position that matters, as a rough draft.

WE THE PEOPLE gotta start taking care of business.

 

 

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Big Jim
30 minutes ago, Will Due said:

In my opinion the only solution to this phenomenon lies with a system of vetting or qualifying candidates for office and political appointment in order to guarantee that these people morally and ethically qualify to hold leadership authority BEFORE they are allowed to be a candidate or a potential bureacratic appointee. For the FBI or the DOJ for example

Absolutely, and at every level.  Unqualified or corrupt city councilmen become state representatives and then Congressmen.  I had to be thoroughly vetted and fingerprinted to work at a bank.  It would have been easier to run for Congress.  It's a wonder that scandals are even newsworthy anymore.  I'm about 5 years older than you and they've been going on as long as I can remember.  We collectively dip into our jar of fake outrage and sit back to wait for the next one.

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Will Due
31 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Absolutely, and at every level.  Unqualified or corrupt city councilmen become state representatives and then Congressmen.  I had to be thoroughly vetted and fingerprinted to work at a bank.  It would have been easier to run for Congress.  It's a wonder that scandals are even newsworthy anymore.  I'm about 5 years older than you and they've been going on as long as I can remember.  We collectively dip into our jar of fake outrage and sit back to wait for the next one.

 

Yup, it's fricken unbelievable what's happening. Right from under our noses, the sovereignty of our government, which lies with the people, is slowly being subterfuged into the hands of the worst kind of criminal. The type that steals you blind right in front of your face with a smirk.

But lately I see a light at the end of the tunnel.

And that's right, it's a locomotive. But it sure looks like it to me, that decent people see what's coming and are getting out of the way while the self-enrichers and their cohorting mindless supporters are remaining at their places completely oblivious. Distracted with their attempts to promote their evil intentions disguised as racial and cultural division. Division that doesn't even exist. Pretending to serve the public with offers of income. Even to those who are "unwilling to work".

 

Choo-Chooooooo!

 

 

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'Walt' E. Kurtz

Since the human race sprung from africa we're all mixed up and we are all basically the same sadly some people have failed to understand this. 

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RavenHawk

Ultimately, it is important for the individual to be multiethnic and multicultural but for a nation it is disastrous.  If you are Hispanic and not an American, you are not part of our Hispanic community.  People are different.  Culture means everything and America is a unique culture.  I'm sure you've seen a soccer match between a city in England and a city in Germany?  There is still a vast difference between the two nations.  Uncontrolled, mass migration doesn't make a nation stronger.  Immigration without assimilation destroys a nation.

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Peter B
22 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I agree.  But we can't allow our multiethnic culture to Balkanize into opposing groups instead of trying to live together.   The old metaphor of a melting pot was a good one.  What we're heading towards is more like one of those cocktails that separate into layers.  We have little enclaves of various ethnicities and national groups who have more affinity and loyalty to their origins than they do to America.  

*puts hand up*

Isn't that what happened in the USA from the late 19th to the early 20th centuries with immigrant communities across the north of the USA - whether in the cities or in rural areas - German, Scandinavian, Jewish, Italian and so on? Most of them melted into the pot, so to speak, didn't they? Why is it so different now?

It's the same here in Australia. After World War Two we had hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Italy, Greece and Yugoslavia, and some Australians at the time hated it. A generation later they were just part of the community. Then in the 1970s and 1980s we had tens of thousands of refugees from South Vietnam, and there was panic again, this time about Vietnamese crime. A generation later they were just part of the community. Now we have tens of thousands of African migrants and refugees, and once again there are people who are convinced they're a menace.

In the meantime, the team I'm part of includes people from Spain, Thailand, India, Germany, Poland and Macedonia, but ethnicity simply isn't an issue in the workplace.

ETA: And our preferred restaurant for work lunches is the local Turkish one. That is, unless we go to the local Chinese one, or the nearby Italian one, or the Greek one at the club. And the Indian one is popular with a lot of the people in the IT team across the corridor.

Edited by Peter B

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Emma_Acid
21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Nations and races are two different things.  When someone becomes an American they don't change their race.  Nations are political constructs, race is the way we are born. 

"Race" is a construct as well. Sure there are some cosmetic differences between someone born in Siberia compared to Sierra Leone, but as soon as any amount of reproduction between these two groups go on, the concept of singular races goes out of the window.

In either case this really wasn't what I was saying. I'm saying people use nationalism as an excuse for racism.

21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

So having pride in one's country is not to be construed as being against other races.

This is demonstrably not the same thing as nationalism.

21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

But I can say I want people to follow our laws.

But this has nothing to do with race or nationalism. Its just being an upstanding citizen.

21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

I can say that we are not obligated to accept the unchecked flow of foreign nationalists into our country.

Again, this is nothing really to do with being patriotic, being nationalistic, or being racist. It's good governmental policy to manage immigration properly. 

21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

Loving our countries and wanting to keep some of our traditional identity does not make us racist.

Firstly, I didn't say this makes anyone a racist. You're not being "nationalist". But, you have hit a common hurdle - that of "traditional identity". This is where I call BS - and I find a lot of people use the phrase to basically mean "anyone who isn't us", and this is where the nationalist/racist blurring happens.

Let's examine "traditional British identity". What does this mean? Our "traditional" religion is Judeo-Hellenistic of Mediterranean origin. Our annual celebrations are pagan European. Our national dish is Jewish-Portuguese, while our national breakfast is Germanic-Anglo-Saxon. Our national drink is Indian. Or national pastime (drinking beer) is Mesopotamian. Our popular music and entertainment is American.

Hell, go back far enough and most of use are descended from European invaders, Middle Eastern traders or Roman settlers. 

So - what does it mean to be "British"? A combination of all of these things? Sure. But where's the cut off point? For a lot of people it seems to be 1945 if I'm being honest.

My point is that you cannot simply define a "nation" by a loose group of practices almost all of which were imported from other places. 

21 hours ago, Big Jim said:

If I and a racially diverse group of my fellow Americans profess love of our country together which of us would you say is racist?

Nowhere did I say this. I said that Nationalism is an invented movement that is born out of racist intentions. I never said you were doing either. Love your country all your want, but do be careful of the "traditional identity" angle. Countries change, and national identities are always in flux. That's just something you and your racially diverse group of country-loving friends is just going to have to get used to.

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RabidMongoose
On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 6:31 AM, Relam said:

Hello, i am from europe and here are lots of heavy nationalists in small countries that have ideologies about homogeneous nations etc.., so i would like to ask americans because you have the most multiethnic country, what do you think about multiethnicity in your country is it good or bad and what americans think about nationalism? is it important?

I`m going to be controversial and say I think mixed race people are more prone to genetic diseases and cancer.

Putting aside whether we really have one diverse human race or multiple races the fact remains that in mixed race people genetics are coming together which haven't be paired before. That produces unpredictable results.

It might even by why cancer rates have been increasing.

Edited by RabidMongoose

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Emma_Acid
22 hours ago, Big Jim said:

We have little enclaves of various ethnicities and national groups who have more affinity and loyalty to their origins than they do to America.  

And if you had to move to a different country with a group of fellow countrymen (and women), you'd do exactly the same damn thing.

I find the concept of patriotism and blind loyalty in the construct that is "a nation" so weird. Only a country as new as America could you ever do it with a straight face.

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aztek
31 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

 

 I'm saying people use nationalism as an excuse for racism.

 

some may do so, but from what i see happening in real world today, racism is the excuse for many to infringe on other's culture, and desire to maintain it.

Edited by aztek
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Emma_Acid
Just now, RabidMongoose said:

I`m going to be controversial and say I think mixed race people are more prone to genetic diseases and cancer.

Putting aside whether we really have one diverse human race or multiple races the fact remains that in mixed race people genetics are coming together which haven't be paired before. That produces unpredictable results.

giphy.gif

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Big Jim
2 minutes ago, Peter B said:

*puts hand up*

Isn't that what happened in the USA from the late 19th to the early 20th centuries with immigrant communities across the north of the USA - whether in the cities or in rural areas - German, Scandinavian, Jewish, Italian and so on? Most of them melted into the pot, so to speak, didn't they? Why is it so different now?

It's the same here in Australia. After World War Two we had hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Italy, Greece and Yugoslavia, and some Australians at the time hated it. A generation later they were just part of the community. Then in the 1970s and 1980s we had tens of thousands of refugees from South Vietnam, and there was panic again, this time about Vietnamese crime. A generation later they were just part of the community. Now we have tens of thousands of African migrants and refugees, and once again there are people who are convinced they're a menace.

In the meantime, the team I'm part of includes people from Spain, Thailand, India, Germany, Poland and Macedonia, but ethnicity simply isn't an issue in the workplace.

The issue isn't immigration, per se.  Most people have nothing against it.  The issue is the way it's done.  In Australia you don't share a border with any other country so all your immigrants have to come through regulated ports of entry.  There is a process to it.  The same was true in the US in the time you mention.  For the most part the immigrants came from Europe and also went through certain ports.  It was regulated and people came to find work and become Americans.  What we have now is different, with hordes of people coming over the border unregulated and unvetted. The main attraction seems to be our wide and generous safety net of social services and government assistance.  There are communities living on our largesse while at the same time flying flags of the country they left and chanting anti-American slogans.  In other words, they're spitting in our face with their hand in our pocket.  People raised in that environment, with no need to work or assimilate, are not likely to "melt into the pot" by the next generation.  The whole point of the wall and associated arguments is not to stop immigration or to bar certain nationalities or races but merely to channel people through recognized ports of entry.  To make our immigration situation more like yours or the way ours used to be.

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