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Eldorado

Jesus Christ was a Greek philosopher

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Eldorado

"Jesus has been confused with a Greek philosopher who lived at the same time and was thought to restore life to the dead, according to a new documentary.

Descriptions of Jesus' life and the miracles he performed in the New Testament may have been mistaken for Preacher Apollonius of Tyan.    

There are striking physical similarities between the two and there is more evidence that Apollonius existed."

Full article at the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6690329/Jesus-Christ-GREEK-not-Jewish-according-Amazon-Prime-documentary.html

Apollonius of Tyana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana

Edited by Eldorado
to add wiki link
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eight bits

Apollonius isn't exactly breaking news. Sossianus Hierocles (searchable), an anti-Christian activist around 300 CE or so, connected the dots between Jesus stories and Apollonius stories, along with other arguments that the Roman Empire would be even better without Christians. This provoked a response (called Against Hierocles, imaginatively enough) traditionally attributed to Eusebius, although there are modern doubts about that.

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_against_hierocles.htm

Jesus and Apollonius seem to be two distinct figures, not a single figure being confused. The church preserved its response to the accusation, so didn't erase it from history. The main source for Apollonius, Philostratus' The Life of ... (speaking of imaginative titles), which is pretty much a historical novel, also survives, complete with "letters" of doubtful authenticity:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/aot/laot/index.htm

Get Amazon Prime for the free shipping, not this.

Edited by eight bits
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Orphalesion

Well ;-)
1) Daily Mail....;nuff said... Might as well cite the Bildzeitung (Germany's version of Daily Mail)
2) Around the time Jesus supposedly lived wandering philosophers/ self proclaimed messiahs/preachers/miracle workers were a dime a dozen.

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FFv3
On 11.2.2019 at 5:44 PM, Eldorado said:

"Jesus has been confused with a Greek philosopher who lived at the same time and was thought to restore life to the dead, according to a new documentary."

A Finnish oral story recorded down in the latter half of the 1980s both by national archives (SKS, SLS) and private archivists, contained a sub-story of young Jesus educated in the Greek cultural sphere. This story is called alternatively by names Bock saga or Väinämöinen's mythology after a major 19th century Finnish family line and a major national hero figure respectively. Story paints a picture whereby amongst the Nordic human priesthood, called Æsir or Aser, occasional misfits and troublesome characters would be cast out abroad. Parents of Jesus would have been members of such renegade priesthood and were cast out, moving all the way into southern Europe. Over there their young child of questionable provenance, called Jeesus Kristus or Jesus Christ, would have studied at length in the court of a sultan in Constantinople. In next phase the young man Jesus headed into far away eastern lands to study Hinduism and Buddhism. Eventually the travelling student and philosophist would visit the land areas called nowadays Palestine and Israel – with neither of them being his native home land.

Eventually after all the, ahem, troubles in the Palestine, Jesus survived a crucifixion and fled back into east for safety. In Hindu realms he dwelled his latter days as a holy man by profession and was eventually upon a peaceful death cremated in the local Hindu fashion. The tale is kind on Jesus' character, but was wrathful for the fact that these eastern religions would eventually destroy the North Europe in a phenomena called Northern Crusades. 

That young man Jesus Christ would have studied philosophy and high class culture in Balkans reminds me to some degree of the Greek elements mentioned by first post. That being said, the Nordic story has two notable anachronisms in it:

  • calling a ruler of Constantinople 'a sultan', as opposed to 'an emperor'. The first sultan to rule over Constantinople was the late medieval Mehmed II. However, Mehmed II was called 'an emperor' (Qayser-i Rûm), implying that in those olden days 'a sultan' was understood as direct synonym for 'a caesar' or 'an emperor' (source). In addition, the crescent symbol commonly associated with Islam, was used in that area already in BC eras (source), being another possible source for this confusion.
  • calling Constantinople by that name in first century context. As far as is commonly know, the name derives from 4th century (source).

On another hand, some story elements are known from elsewhere:

  • a tale of a Nordic heathen convert to Christianity can be read from Eireks Saga Víðförla (source). In that saga a man of a Norse-Finnish descent goes to search the paradise homeland of Guðmundr kings, that being the Old Norse name for the same Väinämöinen's line of which comes the name Väinämöinen's mythology for the story above. Relevant here is that this man also ends into emperor's court in Constantinople, where he is taught the Christian faith. Like Nordic Jesus, he too moves on into India, entering into all kinds of adventures with the tale making a heavy use of kennings (like 'dragons' for hill forts and such).
  • Asclepius was one of the many Greek characters of proto-Christ like attributes. As fits the pattern here, he too was tutored as a young man by no less than a centaur (source). To my mind this suggest that the centaur, emperor and sultan are substitutes for each other in the basic Christ narrative.
  • Jesus surviving the crucifixion ordeal is attested from Islam and Gnostic sects, albeit most schools of Islamic thinking do not record the India episode (source). Most notably here, Indians do make claim to an existing tradition about Jesus in India (source).

To sum it up, a Nordic tale of young man Jesus Christ getting his education in Greek cultural area fits a larger pattern, with some of the details unaccounted for from another sources. To give more material for thought on the non-canonical Greco-Jesus traditions, a nice summary is given on pages 2-4 here.

Edited by FFv3
Added links into source materials and fixed spelling.
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jaylemurph
4 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Well ;-)
1) Daily Mail....;nuff said... Might as well cite the Bildzeitung (Germany's version of Daily Mail)
2) Around the time Jesus supposedly lived wandering philosophers/ self proclaimed messiahs/preachers/miracle workers were a dime a dozen.

I love the "pro" facts come from the Daily Mail and M. "Racist Lying Con Artist" Blavatski. That team sure had wide-spread credibility going for them, that's for sure.

--Jaylemurph

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docyabut2
On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 10:44 AM, Eldorado said:

"Jesus has been confused with a Greek philosopher who lived at the same time and was thought to restore life to the dead, according to a new documentary.

Descriptions of Jesus' life and the miracles he performed in the New Testament may have been mistaken for Preacher Apollonius of Tyan.    

There are striking physical similarities between the two and there is more evidence that Apollonius existed."

Full article at the Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6690329/Jesus-Christ-GREEK-not-Jewish-according-Amazon-Prime-documentary.html

Apollonius of Tyana:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana

No connection. 

Jesus was a healer and took care of Lazarus, the brother of Mary Magdalene who he saved. Lazarus had thyroid fever, put a cave to cool him  Jesus came to his friends and took care of him , the story Jesus brought him back to life.

Jesus`s tomb has been found

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Tomb_of_Jesus 

so many of his miracles are explained:)    

Edited by docyabut2
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docyabut2

Did you know it was Jesus`s uncle that took his body to his tomb, where Jesus survived the crucifixion. Jesus was a man of love and forgiveness in all his so called riddles. In his last words on the cross ( forgive them for thee do not  know what to do )  and from that day to this the world was never the same again for a conscious evolution had began in the soul of man.

Edited by docyabut2

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Ellapennella
11 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Did you know it was Jesus`s uncle that took his body to his tomb, where Jesus survived the crucifixion. Jesus was a man of love and forgiveness in all his so called riddles. In his last words on the cross ( forgive them for thee do not  know what to do )  and from that day to this the world was never the same again for a conscious evolution had began in the soul of man.

What do understand about the fall &  satanic opposition of the Messiah's arrival? 

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Ellapennella
14 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

No connection. 

Jesus was a healer and took care of Lazarus, the brother of Mary Magdalene who he saved. Lazarus had thyroid fever, put a cave to cool him  Jesus came to his friends and took care of him , the story Jesus brought him back to life.

Jesus`s tomb has been found

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Tomb_of_Jesus 

so many of his miracles are explained:)    

Have you ever wondered why or how  or to whom Mary of Magdala and Mary of Bethany became , transformed, or were considered to be  one individual? How was this revealed to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Bethany

eta

Just would like to add that I find it also uncertain of which Miriam's are mentioned at the tomb of Yeshua because it is said that Mary of Magdala and the other Mary were there. Why would the mother of Yeshua be mention as  the other Mary and not as the mother of Jesus/Yeshua, just doesn't seem proper. Also, I've read that the other Mary  may have been referring to another follower who's name was Mary Salome.

 

Edited by Ellapennella

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Podo

It seems like this Greek preacher has been known for a while. I'd be the first to line up and discredit Christianity, but trying to say that they got the wrong guy is a bit...loose.

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MERRY DMAS

There's some surviving fragmen's of his writings. Too bad we cannot say the same for the supposed historical Jesus.

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docyabut2
On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:15 AM, Ellapennella said:

Have you ever wondered why or how  or to whom Mary of Magdala and Mary of Bethany became , transformed, or were considered to be  one individual? How was this revealed to you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Bethany

eta

Just would like to add that I find it also uncertain of which Miriam's are mentioned at the tomb of Yeshua because it is said that Mary of Magdala and the other Mary were there. Why would the mother of Yeshua be mention as  the other Mary and not as the mother of Jesus/Yeshua, just doesn't seem proper. Also, I've read that the other Mary  may have been referring to another follower who's name was Mary Salome.

 

 Because Mary  Magdala  was Jesus `s healer of the sevens sins, and the first women he saved. Jesus brought her home to her family of Lazarus to accept her back, of which Jesus  made a good friend.   

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docyabut2

Did all know Jesus was a monk in the mountains and was very rich by her mother`s parents. He fed his followers with fish and food,a  so called a miracle. A another  miracle, he also gave more wine that ran out in the wedding of his cousin a women `s marriage.    

Edited by docyabut2

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Razumov
On 2/11/2019 at 7:44 AM, Eldorado said:

"Jesus has been confused with a Greek philosopher"

Then why is every story about him a story about a Jew?

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Ellapennella
2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 Because Mary  Magdala  was healed by Jesus  of the sevens sins, and the first women he saved. Jesus brought her home to her family of Lazarus to accept her back, of which Jesus  made a good friend.   

 I don't know . I really don't know. There seems to be either some sort of hint or maybe it's just defining a  Mary  a  few times in the bible that leaves me wondering of them. I don't know . When  Saul was known as  Paul or when Simon was known as Peter there was mention of it, it was explained why the name changed unlike what is hinted a few times about a certain Mary.

 

 

 

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Ellapennella
3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Did all know Jesus was a monk in the mountains and was very rich by her mother`s parents.

 

 

No, but please share this source of information that you're reading.

 

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Ellapennella
3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Also the mound of  Galilee could be Jesus `s miracle of walking on the water. 

https://www.livescience.com/28567-ancient-structure-under-sea-of-galilee.html

So, I will share something about that with you. People will either have faith as in blessed are they who believe without seeing, or not.  As for what I have faith in about it , lines up with the bible.

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Ellapennella
On 2/17/2019 at 4:20 AM, docyabut2 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim

 father of Mary, the mother of Jesus,

 Joachim is described as a rich and pious man

So,  if you can  will you show  where in the Bible it mentions  that Jesus was rich while he was on earth and that  Jesus was a monk that lived in the mountains? 

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docyabut2
54 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

So,  if you can  will you show  where in the Bible it mentions  that Jesus was rich while he was on earth and that  Jesus was a monk that lived in the mountains? 

 Jesus was rich he fed his followers

In the Jesus`s  gospels ( he came down from the mountain.) in many different events.

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Ellapennella
55 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

 Jesus was rich he fed his followers

 

It seems to me that you don't believe  how Jesus was able to take  those 5 loaves of bread and  those five fish , raise them up to the heaven give thanks and feed 5 thousand.

 

 

Quote

In the Jesus`s  gospels ( he came down from the mountain.) in many different events.

He also transformed on a mountain too. 

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onlookerofmayhem
5 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

It seems to me that you don't believe  how Jesus was able to take  those 5 loaves of bread and  those five fish , raise them up to the heaven give thanks and feed 5 thousand.

 

 

He also transformed on a mountain too. 

Nope. Don't believe that at all. It's literally impossible. 

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